Inept Public Transport

[Bushman]

How hard can it be to create a public transport system that:
1. is not over corwded; and
2. runs on time?

In Melbourne, we now have the farcical situation where St. John's first aid officers will be permanently stationed at the five busiest stations to care for patients falling ill on over-crowded trains.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/s...ush-takes-toll-20100602-wzrc.html?autostart=1

Outrageous really.

I travel most days on the Hurstbridge line and I am yet to get a seat this year. Crazy way of weaning people from using cars.

 

[SmellyTerror]

The problem is people.

That's a good motto, IMO.

Democracy - our half-arsed version of it anway - rewards short-termism. Massive expenditure on good public transport pays tremendous dividends... but only after you've been voted out for not spending the same money on stuff people will like straight away.

What are you going to do? Democracy (however half-arsed) is the only system we've ever come up with that stops the powerful openly killing, cooking and eating their enemies. Humans are fundamentally flawed, humans in power especially so, and so we have a political system designed to permit the least possible amount of governing to get done.

We don't trust people in power - rightly so - but that means we can't actually let them do anything.

The only reason we ever got anything done in the past is that political propaganda wasn't quite so well honed, and that left enough room for the occasional dreaming romantic who actually gave a toss about leaving things better than when they got there. Not anymore! Now if someone doesn't spend every ounce of effort and every cent of funding on fire and noise, we tear them apart.

Hope you like the world as it is, 'cause it ain't changing. We're going to entrench the status quo so deep that the status quo will BE the trench.

 

[newbie trader]

I'm in Brisbane and catch the bus to and from uni 4-5 days a week. This bus is supposed to come every 10 minutes during peak and every 15 minutes off peak. In reality it only comes every 15-45 minutes. I have stood at my bus stop which is at the top of a hill (it being the second stop on the line) and seen 3 bus drivers talking at the bottom of the hill (where the 1st stop is). They have sat there and I have waited for about 30-40 minutes on serveral occassions before one of them decides to do their job. The trip from uni to home is ever worse. There are 5 different busses at the uni 'terminal' or whatever you want to call it. On a regular basis I see 4 or 5 of one bus come before one of my buses come they seem to work on their own timetable. By the time one of my buses comes along there are normally so many people lined up that it takes around 3 full buses.

The bsues are also quite expensive which is another set back.

I've had numerous buses which have broken down (I guess thats somewhat out of the control of the transport people).

I've had one bus which has run out of PETROL on the trip from uni (meaning we have had to walk to the closest bus stop). The driver yelled out to everyone that he was going to roll the bus as far as he could.

Finally, on serveral occassions I have been on a bus when the bus driver has decided to make a 'personal' call on his mobile whilst driving. The first time he did it we hit a curb and the bus most probably almost flipped on its side.

The only good thing about the bus service is sometimes you can get a nice driver and get a free ride WOO YEAHH!...(very rarely)...

If the Gov wants everyone to use public transport instead of cars then they are not making it very appealing (well at least for me personally).

 

[Bushman]

Metro has had a terrible debut here in Melbourne. From my own personal experience, my train has been 5-10 mins late on three mornings this week and cancelled on the fourth day.

Nothing compared to other lines, including a train losing power in the Loop and passengers forced to walk underground yesterday morning.

True to form, our incompetent State Government has ensured that the penalty clauses for not meeting KPIs (like getting trains to the station on time) that were in the Connex contract have been removed from the Metro contract! Just lol. This follows the MYKI disaster.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/t...-seventh-month-20100630-zmtx.html?autostart=1

Once again, how hard can it be? Maybe the billions that are spent on toll roads that no-one uses could be spent on providing us with a 21st century transport system?

So frustrating!!!!!!

 

[jersey10]

The problem is people.

That's a good motto, IMO.

Democracy - our half-arsed version of it anway - rewards short-termism. Massive expenditure on good public transport pays tremendous dividends... but only after you've been voted out for not spending the same money on stuff people will like straight away.

What are you going to do? Democracy (however half-arsed) is the only system we've ever come up with that stops the powerful openly killing, cooking and eating their enemies. Humans are fundamentally flawed, humans in power especially so, and so we have a political system designed to permit the least possible amount of governing to get done.

We don't trust people in power - rightly so - but that means we can't actually let them do anything.

The only reason we ever got anything done in the past is that political propaganda wasn't quite so well honed, and that left enough room for the occasional dreaming romantic who actually gave a toss about leaving things better than when they got there. Not anymore! Now if someone doesn't spend every ounce of effort and every cent of funding on fire and noise, we tear them apart.

Hope you like the world as it is, 'cause it ain't changing. We're going to entrench the status quo so deep that the status quo will BE the trench.

Great post and i very much agree with you. How do you propose the political system should change so that we do not have the issues you mention above?

 

[matty77]

Maybe we should give everyone another $900 so we can all catch taxi's to work?

There isnt one state government in Australia that would think ahead of 2 years, the first year is spent doing stuff they promised to win the last election, the next 2 or 3 years is about doing stuff and making promises to fix stuff to win the next election. No long term planning is done!

 

[Mofra]

I travel most days on the Hurstbridge line and I am yet to get a seat this year. Crazy way of weaning people from using cars.

No seat?

I'd just like to be able to fit on every day. My station is close to the city and if it is more than 2-3 minutes late, most of the platform misses out during peak time. According to Metro, they will still have 3 train services express past the station due to them "only supplying servcies to stations with high demand". Huh?

 

[disarray]

Great post and i very much agree with you. How do you propose the political system should change so that we do not have the issues you mention above?

the problem is leaders vs politicians. we vote for politicians, not leaders. leaders stand up and tell the people to stfu when they whine, politicians cave in and pander to the slovenly mob. leaders aren't concerned with currying favour, they are concerned with getting the job done, politicians are the exact opposite.

we get the system (and in this case the politicians) we deserve.

 

[drsmith]

We, the public at large are just cattle.

 

[jersey10]

the problem is leaders vs politicians. we vote for politicians, not leaders. leaders stand up and tell the people to stfu when they whine, politicians cave in and pander to the slovenly mob. leaders aren't concerned with currying favour, they are concerned with getting the job done, politicians are the exact opposite.

we get the system (and in this case the politicians) we deserve.

so wouldn't a political system with a mechanism that prevents the same party being re-elected be a better system?

 

[Boognish]

The rail system is pretty good in Brisbane as far as I can tell.

 

[jersey10]

The rail system is pretty good in Brisbane as far as I can tell.

You wouldn't say that if you had been on the tube in London. It seems Brisbane has decided to spend its money on busways for the time being - lots of construction going on at the moment.

 

[sinner]

Devils avocado;

Public transport in Melbourne (at least within Zone 1 and inner Zone 2) completely kicks the **** of Sydney thanks largely to trams.

I can wake up at 8:20, have a 4 minute shower and a glass of milk, walk 6 minutes to the tram stop, hop on the #1 tram and be outside of work (University of Melbourne) in 25 minutes. Sit or stand is all good, courteous people provide seats for old people and I see young professionals taking their kids to school on the tram with no issues also.

Once a month they put a poster up inside the trams to show their monthly efficiency statistics, I haven't lived in Melbourne long (just over a year now) but never seen anything abysmal on those posters for either the #1 or the #86 tram when I was living in Fitzroy.

Trains are the same the world all over, has nothing to do with Melbourne (although I have noticed most Melbournians take the train being late as some sort of personal affront). Wake up half an hour earlier and beat the peak hour cycle, you will be fine.

Aside from some areas in Germany and Japan, is there really anywhere that trains run on time? My experience is largely no. Just type "London train delays" or "New York train delays" into Google News, you will see what I mean.

PS: I am not condoning ineptitude on the part of whoever is running the trains after Connex got the boot, but just providing a perspective of someone coming from a city with no trams and with double decker trains!

 

[drsmith]

In the late 80's you could set your watch by the trains in Adelaide. Melbourne though was a very different story. Services were often late and some were cancelled. Express usually meant that while the trains did not stop at stations, they stopped regularly inbetween.

It sounds like not much has changed.

 

[GumbyLearner]

Government says rail crime rate dropping as violence hotspots revealed
By Stephen McMahon, Ashley Gardiner
Herald Sun

Melbournes most dangerous stations

Check the crime stats here ->

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/citys-most-dangerous-stations/story-e6frf7kx-1225884963316

The Libs and Labs keep blaming each other. YAWN
It all comes down to inept Government policy on both sides.
Cheaper to pay compo to victims of crime and state taxes to Oil conglomerate subsidiaries than staff a proper reliable & safe service. Or so say the bean counters!

 

[Bushman]

My experience is largely no. Just type "London train delays" or "New York train delays" into Google News, you will see what I mean.

I lived in London for two years and was reliant on the Tube. My observations are:
1. it covered an extensive area of greater London and meant you did not need a car;
2. its peak service ran much more frequently than Melbourne's system; and
3. while you had the odd catastrophic day due to signal points freezign over (go figure), on a day-to-day basis it was much more reliable than Melbourne.

Overcrowding, however, was more of a problem on the Tube during peak hour.

Why adapt to mediocrity? Improve the system and be a world leader I say.

 

[JTLP]

I lived in London for two years and was reliant on the Tube. My observations are:
1. it covered an extensive area of greater London and meant you did not need a car;
2. its peak service ran much more frequently than Melbourne's system; and
3. while you had the odd catastrophic day due to signal points freezign over (go figure), on a day-to-day basis it was much more reliable than Melbourne.

Overcrowding, however, was more of a problem on the Tube during peak hour.

Why adapt to mediocrity? Improve the system and be a world leader I say.

Indeed. I wish they would just do a compass style metro system in Melbourne...reaching all areas within a 25km radius lets say. 2 concurrent train systems would greatly ease a lot of burden - especially out towards the Eastern Freeway where there is no train at all!

On that note...there was a proposed line along the freeway apparently...wish they would bring it back. Could extend it to under Doncaster Shoppingtown and loop it both ways to Heidelberg and Box Hill...win win!

 

[Smurf1976]

I've only used the services as a visitor to the larger cities, not as a local regular commuter, but:

Brisbane: No real hassles once you're on the train / bus / ferry but it's not overly clear to a non-local trying to work out out which train / bus to catch and from where. Last time I was there, I was somewhat shocked to realise that services in some areas basically don't exist on weekends - very poor in that regard given the size of the city. Ended up walking for a few hours with no map or real idea where I was going hoping to find some means of transport. Eventually found a ferry terminal and caught the ferry. Must take a map next time...

Adelaide: No problems at all with the service per se. The trains are a bit old and run down, but due to population, economic base etc Adelaide doesn't have the $ that the larger cities have so I wouldn't expect everything to be perfect. They're good enough to get from A to B, likewise the buses.

Melbourne: Seems to be lots of relatively minor problems but I've always managed to get from A to B eventually (but not on time). I'm sure it used to be better...

Sydney: Always had some sort of hassle every single time I've used the trains. Trains that leave major city stations ridiculously late, tickets that don't work and leave you effectively locked in the train station (and with nobody around to help). Overcrowding and so on. Toilets are outright disgusting too and no amount of searching around a large city train station lead to me finding anything resembling a timetable - maybe OK for locals, but visitors aren't likely to know when the trains run if there's no timetable! All that said, it's easy to find which train to get if you're going to a major sporting event, concert etc since they put signs out - good idea there. The ferries seem to run well, haven't had any problems with them.

Of those 4 cities, I'd say that Adelaide seems to have public transport running better than the others. Yes the trains and some of the buses are old - but at least they seem able to keep them running.

 

[Julia]

Sydney: Always had some sort of hassle every single time I've used the trains. Trains that leave major city stations ridiculously late, tickets that don't work and leave you effectively locked in the train station (and with nobody around to help). Overcrowding and so on. Toilets are outright disgusting too and no amount of searching around a large city train station lead to me finding anything resembling a timetable - maybe OK for locals, but visitors aren't likely to know when the trains run if there's no timetable!

Heavens, that sounds like a quite different city from the one I spent a week in about a year ago. Timetables available from several information kiosks, and if that failed always someone who'd happily provide the information, every train and bus we caught was right on time, and pretty clean. Ferries were great.
We were really impressed and had no trouble getting all over the city.
Lots of brownie points to the local Sydney people, too, for their courteous and helpful attitude when asking for directions.

 

[JTLP]

I moved at the start of the year to Sydney for work and have to say that I don't find the trains that bad. The buses look like a nightmare (I see massive lines all the time) and I have a general rule that buses are generally for locals who know the routes well.

Having said that i'm a big fan of trams (having lived on the (Melbourne) #48 line my whole life) and think that although slow; are charming and a relaxed way to get from A - B.

I just want to see a major Australian city throw in a metro system. Sydney blew a stack of money thinking about it...apparently even have tunnels up around Manly and the Northern Beaches that were designed for an underground something (years ago).

Melbourne desperately need one. The amount of sense it would make...the fit of one for the multi-cultural/euro style city...it would all sit well. It would also mean whoever was in power would get the royal boot but at least they'd go down in my books as a champion :