Another boatload of asylum seekers intercepted by Navy

[newbie trader]

Julia, I certainly agree with you about looking after our own first. It saddens me when I hear reports about our poor having to resort to extreme measures like pulling their own teeth out with pliers because they can’t afford to see a dentist, etc.

Chris if you feel so strongly about it there are programs out there that help the homeless. They would be very grateful if you donated your own time or money or preferably both. No country doesn't have social problems but our government doesn't seem to want to help the homeless whom after all are Australian citizens. You'll hear many people going on about how terrible it all is but few who actually do anything to help.

 

[Julia]

But these are not the people turning up at Christmasmas island. They do not have the means. They have no alternative but to try to reach the nearest safe haven and wait in line.

How can you be so sure about that, Calliope?
Say we were invaded here in Oz, bombs dropped on us, much of our family killed, our own lives threatened. We do, however, in our devastation have some funds saved. Why wouldn't we use these to pay for passage out of danger?

I've plenty of times joined in the chorus of insisting people should take their place in line to come to Australia, and objectively I still feel that way.

But at the same time, I'm also aware of how my apparent values could change if I were in fear of my life, and thought a few thousand bucks could buy me safety and a future.

 

[doctorj]

But at the same time, I'm also aware of how my apparent values could change if I were in fear of my life, and thought a few thousand bucks could buy me safety and a future.

Exactly. And I'm sure you're not alone in thinking this way. Unless circumstances change it's "not our problem" - why should we care anyway?
THEY won't integrate, THEY won't get jobs, THEY will consume our had earned tax dollar and THEY will force their values on us. THEY can go somewhere else. Australia is for the Australians.

 

[Calliope]

Say we were invaded here in Oz, bombs dropped on us, much of our family killed, our own lives threatened. We do, however, in our devastation have some funds saved. Why wouldn't we use these to pay for passage out of danger?

If I were to put this question to an illegal immigrant I think his answer would go something like this;

Of course. Self preservation is the name of the game and if we have money to buy preferential treatment over the less fortunate let us grasp it with both hands. And if our money encourages people smugglers to start an industry just to cater for our needs their initiative should be applauded.

We and they have a symbiotic relationship and I am sick and tired of the warm and fuzzy leftists, who welcome us with open arms, denigrating these wonderful people as criminals. After all if they are criminals we are worse because without our patronage they wouldn't exist, in the same way as there would be no cocaine traffic without the patronage of the well to do in your society.

Because you love us and pamper us and spare no expense to make us happy, and overlook our criminal entry, I am loathe to call you hypocrites but I have a feeling that you are only doing it to make you feel good and virtuous.

 

[Mofra]

These ‘asylum seekers’ should be sent home to work towards building better societies in their homelands, rather than just fleeing them to seek the good life elsewhere. They need to rethink their attitudes and beliefs so they can integrate back into their communities and learn to live peacefully and cooperatively with each other.

Now, if someone in 1941 had said:

These Jews should be sent home to work towards building better societies in their homelands, rather than just fleeing them to seek the good life elsewhere. They need to rethink their attitudes and beliefs so they can integrate back into their communities and learn to live peacefully and cooperatively with each other.

How would history judge that person?

There are some people amongst the asylum seekers who have genuine cause to fear retribution in their homeland. Not all, which necessitates proper processing for all applications for protection Visas (regardless of method of entry), but some.

 

[Mofra]

If I were to put this question to an illegal immigrant I think his answer would go something like this;

You clearly haven't met many, if any.

Those I've met simply want to work, provide for their family, and live a normal life - in safety.

 

[Calliope]

Those I've met simply want to work, provide for their family, and live a normal life - in safety.

Of course. They are the privileged few.

It is strange that people of your ilk bleeding hearts) support vast sums of money being poured into aiding and abetting this privileged few, whilst ignoring the vast majority in their homelands who cannot afford to pay for this silver service.

Or is it your attitude,"Stiff cheddar...that's the way the cookie crumbles"?

 

[Chris45]

There are some people amongst the asylum seekers who have genuine cause to fear retribution in their homeland.

Yes, there probably are, and I support the policy of granting them temporary protection until they can safely return home, or seek temporary protection elsewhere, and then apply for migration in the proper manner.

The ones I object to are the opportunistic goodlife seekers with squatter mentalities who seem to think that they are entitled to come here and take up residence without question. I get the impression that these are now the majority. I can just imagine the pressure the DIMA officers must now be under to clear the growing backlog of asylum claims. “You say someone scowled at you? OK, residency granted.”

If all of our asylum seeker advocates were required to put up sizeable bonds and be held personally responsible for the support and maintenance of the people they promote, similar to when we invite a foreign friend to come and visit, I wonder how long they’d last.

 

[Julia]

There are some people amongst the asylum seekers who have genuine cause to fear retribution in their homeland. Not all, which necessitates proper processing for all applications for protection Visas (regardless of method of entry), but some.

Of course. They are the privileged few.

It is strange that people of your ilk bleeding hearts) support vast sums of money being poured into aiding and abetting this privileged few, whilst ignoring the vast majority in their homelands who cannot afford to pay for this silver service.

Calliope, re-read Mofra's statement above where he underlines the need for proper processing of visas. That's hardly the approach of the bleeding heart.

 

[Calliope]

Calliope, re-read Mofra's statement above where he underlines the need for proper processing of visas. That's hardly the approach of the bleeding heart.

Maybe. But I would hope that even a bleeding heart would want to weed out the criminals and terrorists. Those who fear retribution at home often fall into this category. Australia did not categorise the Tamil Tigers as terrorists. Most other western countries did.

 

[Chris45]

Now, if someone in 1941 had said: ...

I think in 1941 the Jews were probably happy to be given asylum by anyone who offered it and they didn’t pick and choose. And to their full credit they subsequently returned to their homeland, Israel, and built an excellent society.

Why don’t the Tamil ‘asylum seekers’ seek refuge in Tamil Nadu? It's a lot closer, and would be cheaper to get to, than Australia, and they are culturally similar.

Don't forget the atrocities committed by the Tamil Tigers, suicide bombings, conscripting children etc, in their quest for independence.

 

[trainspotter]

Just a thought .... Sri Lanka to Ashmore Reef is 4823.6 kms as the crow flies BUT Andaman & Nicobar Islands are only 1396.2 kms to Sri Lanka. Populated by Anglo Indian and Burmese cross cultures and is owned by India.

The Andaman & Nicobar Islands are a veritable Garden of Eden and a naturalist's heaven. The clean environment, roads, greenery as well as unpolluted fresh air attract all nature lovers. The tropical rain forests and waters of Bay of Bengal are the home of a vast collection of plant, animal and marine life. Topographically the islands are hilly in places fringed with coconut palm, covered with tropical jungle and interspersed with flat stretches of crescent shaped beaches. Adventure tourism like trekking, Island camping, snorkeling, SCUBA diving etc. and other water sports are the real attractions. A marvelous mix of nature's most precious delights, the Andaman & Nicobar Islands are a once in a lifetime holiday experience.

http://tourism.andaman.nic.in/touristspot.htm

Bugger this Australia place ........ I wanna go there !

 

[steptoe88]

Just a thought .... Sri Lanka to Ashmore Reef is 4823.6 kms as the crow flies BUT Andaman & Nicobar Islands are only 1396.2 kms to Sri Lanka. Populated by Anglo Indian and Burmese cross cultures and is owned by India.

The Andaman & Nicobar Islands are a veritable Garden of Eden and a naturalist's heaven. The clean environment, roads, greenery as well as unpolluted fresh air attract all nature lovers. The tropical rain forests and waters of Bay of Bengal are the home of a vast collection of plant, animal and marine life. Topographically the islands are hilly in places fringed with coconut palm, covered with tropical jungle and interspersed with flat stretches of crescent shaped beaches. Adventure tourism like trekking, Island camping, snorkeling, SCUBA diving etc. and other water sports are the real attractions. A marvelous mix of nature's most precious delights, the Andaman & Nicobar Islands are a once in a lifetime holiday experience.

http://tourism.andaman.nic.in/touristspot.htm

Bugger this Australia place ........ I wanna go there !

This is the point, why are they so eager to get to us when there are several paradises along the journey, could it be that its the welfare and other handouts that are on offer that is the big magnet? otherwise who wouldnt stop and take refuge in the first safe haven found?

 

[Mofra]

Why don’t the Tamil ‘asylum seekers’ seek refuge in Tamil Nadu? It's a lot closer, and would be cheaper to get to, than Australia, and they are culturally similar.

Do you have any evidence that suggests the majority don't? It's not like 100% of all the world's displaced people come to Australia.

In any case, the crux of the matter has again been lost; you can't stop a running tap by putting a bigger bucket under it, or mistreating the water that collects in it.

Only by negotiating properly with Indonesia will real progress be made to stamp out people smuggling - anything that happens within Australian waters makes little difference to those already in the pipeline, or planning a journey. Surely people can recognise that Howard's greater successes in slowing the arrival rate came from agreements with our Northern neighbours as opposed to the PR exercise referred to as the "Pacific Solution"?

 

[Chris45]

In any case, the crux of the matter has again been lost; you can't stop a running tap by putting a bigger bucket under it, or mistreating the water that collects in it.

With reference to your running tap analogy, a temporary fix would be to bung up the outlet (ie, turn the boats back, eliminate the pull-factors, etc) and then properly fix the cause of the leak (over-population, desires for separatism, etc).

Asylum seekers are now a world wide problem caused primarily by uncontrolled population growth and too many mouths demanding to be fed. Just letting them overflow to other countries is not the solution. If your water tank is overflowing, reduce the input.

I agree that increasing pressure (negotiation, whatever) needs to be put on conduit countries like Indonesia to accept responsibility for their part of the problem and, if they object to being continually hectored and harangued, then they need to pull their fingers out and do something.

China has managed to bring its population growth under control – no reason why everyone else can’t do the same. Not a pretty solution, but necessary.

Just discovered this article which answers a lot of questions:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ing-tales-of-woe/story-e6frg6zo-1225850659899

 

[Calliope]

Just discovered this article which answers a lot of questions:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ing-tales-of-woe/story-e6frg6zo-1225850659899

There's nothing that tugs at the heartstrings of a bleeding heart more than an illegal turning up on our doorstep and claiming asylum because he is fleeing persecution, although most of them find it safe enough to leave their families behind.

They are coming here for one reason only...we are a welfare state. They will go through or around safe haven (but poor) countries to get here.

 

[Mofra]

They are coming here for one reason only...we are a welfare state. They will go through or around safe haven (but poor) countries to get here.

Again, your xenophobic speculation with no factual basis is incorrect.

Until a temporary protection visa is granted, Dole/Austudy/family benefits are NOT available.

The prospect of work and a safe environment are the primary lure to every single immigrant/asylum seeker I've met, not the desire to bludge off the government (that would be Australians who are collecting the dole).

 

[Mofra]

With reference to your running tap analogy, a temporary fix would be to bung up the outlet (ie, turn the boats back, eliminate the pull-factors, etc) and then properly fix the cause of the leak (over-population, desires for separatism, etc).

Asylum seekers are now a world wide problem caused primarily by uncontrolled population growth and too many mouths demanding to be fed. Just letting them overflow to other countries is not the solution. If your water tank is overflowing, reduce the input.

Good response, however the "bunging the tap" ideology tends not to agree with the responses of people preparing to come to Australia (they will still take their chance).

The second paragraph there I totally agree with; FWIW the most effective form of population control (unless you are going to decree a single child policy like China) is to boost the education opportunities for women. There is a noted drop in birth rates when comparing differing societies who have different education levels for the female population. This of course is a longer term solution - although the increase in the use of biofuels, increasing the cost of the world's food supply, may have the unfortunate consequence of causing mass starvation in many of the world's poorest nations anyway.

I agree that increasing pressure (negotiation, whatever) needs to be put on conduit countries like Indonesia to accept responsibility for their part of the problem and, if they object to being continually hectored and harangued, then they need to pull their fingers out and do something.

For all the supposed pandering to outer suburban xenophobes, Howard's government was actually quite effective when it came to negotiating with our closest regional neighbours and there was some progress made in prosecuting some of the people smugglers higher up the chain.
Rudd's prosecutions are by and large the end of the chain - poor fishermen who barely understand the reasons they are incarcerated.

As far as I'm concerned the problem of people smuggling cannot be solved without a coordinated effort of a group of nations (Australia by itself will solve nothing).

 

[Calliope]

Again, your xenophobic speculation with no factual basis is incorrect.

Until a temporary protection visa is granted, Dole/Austudy/family benefits are NOT available.

The prospect of work and a safe environment are the primary lure to every single immigrant/asylum seeker I've met, not the desire to bludge off the government (that would be Australians who are collecting the dole).

Of course you would say that. You are just following the support group, advocacy, bleeding heart script. Do you think all people who can take a dispassionate view ( as opposed to your emotional view) of this problem are Xenophobes?

Your accusation with no factual basis is incorrect. It is also nasty.

 

[Chris45]

Sergei DeSilva-Ranasinghe was born in Sri Lanka and migrated to Australia as a young lad and is currently writing his masters thesis, at Curtin University, on the evolution of Australia's defence policy in the Indian Ocean. What he says about the current influx of Tamil asylum seekers makes sense. Here’s an extract:

So, why does Australia see a growing number of Sri Lankan Tamil asylum-seekers? It appears that Australia's relative proximity as the closest Western country, high living standards and perceptions of sympathetic treatment have been a significant pull factor in attracting them. Australia is also the nearest country that is a signatory to the UN Refugee Convention.

Sri Lankan Tamil asylum-seekers who come to Australia have deliberately avoided the option of seeking asylum in the Indian state of Tamil Nadu, only a two-hour boat ride away from Sri Lanka. Although India is not a signatory to the convention, it has long been hospitable to Tamil asylum-seekers from Sri Lanka.

V. Suryanarayan, a retired senior professor affiliated with the University of Madras and a respected expert on the subject (as well as a Tamil), wrote in September 2008: "Geographical contiguity, ethnic affinities and easy availability of boats made Tamil Nadu a natural choice. The government provides free housing, free medical care and free education, in addition to financial doles and supply of essential commodities like rice, kerosene and sugar at subsidised rates. What is more, the government of Tamil Nadu has permitted the refugees to take up employment, a gesture not extended to Chakma refugees from Bangladesh. As far as refugees are concerned, it is not roses all the way, but . . . [they] do not feel any sense of insecurity in Tamil Nadu."

There are several reasons why Tamil asylum-seekers from Sri Lanka come to Australia instead of going to Tamil Nadu. Some are attempting to use Australia as a conduit to the West generally, as seen in the Oceanic Viking stand-off, where a note thrown to Australian journalists and published in The Age said: "Australia doesn't want to accept us. Send us to other countries like Canada, Norway, Switzerland, New Zealand." Indeed, some of the asylum-seekers intending to enter Australia have for many years resided in countries other than Sri Lanka, such as India, Malaysia and Indonesia. A notable example was "Alex" Kuhendrarajah, the spokesman for a group of Tamils in Indonesia, who, contrary to his claims, had lived in Chennai, India, for many years and had previously been deported from Canada because of his involvement in criminal activities.

There are other reasons why so many Tamil asylum-seekers come to Australia instead of joining efforts to rebuild Sri Lankan society or obtaining asylum in Tamil Nadu. Some appear to be LTTE fighters seeking to evade legitimate detention in Sri Lanka, and have deliberately avoided India, where there is a high probability of arrest and detention, as the LTTE is a proscribed terrorist organisation. Australia, unlike the US, Canada and the European Union, has not proscribed the LTTE as a terrorist organization, which is likely to constitute a significant pull factor for LTTE fighters keen to seek asylum.

Second, a majority of the Sri Lankan Tamil diaspora, an estimated 800,000 people, is based in the West and there have been indications that sympathetic elements within the diaspora have encouraged and funded the passage of asylum-seekers to the West. As one Australian Tamil community leader recently remarked: "People who have help from overseas will be able to pay the smugglers and come."

After the conflict in Sri Lanka ended, genuine displaced civilians (as opposed to LTTE combatants) traumatised by the violent final phases of the insurgency could not be faulted for wanting to leave Sri Lanka in search of a brighter future in Australia or elsewhere. Even with the end of the insurgency, to varying degrees Tamil fears of discrimination and Sinhalese triumphalism are likely to remain.

However, there is minimal evidence to support claims of widespread or institutionalised persecution, and given the rapidly improving situation in Sri Lanka, the Australian government should exercise heightened caution and scepticism in assessing the validity of asylum-seeker claims from Sri Lanka.

What the hell is wrong with our useless Canberra politicians that the LTTE, outlawed in 31 other countries, is not a proscribed terrorist organization here???

According to the FBI: "(The LTTE) perfected the use of suicide bombers, invented the suicide belt, pioneered the use of women in suicide attacks, murdered some 4000 people in the past two years alone and assassinated two world leaders (former Indian prime minister Rajiv Gandhi and Sri Lankan president Ranasinghe Premadasa), the only terrorist organisation to do so."

I suppose that pathetic Alexander Downer was too busy sipping his Chardonnay and prancing around in his mesh stockings to address the LTTE issue but Stephen Smith needs to step up and act immediately to eliminate this unbelievably stupid pull factor.