Churches against the teaching of ethics - is this unethical?

[gooner]

At present in NSW, scripture classes are held in public schools (despite Australia's secularism) and where children choose not to attend, they are not allowed to be taught anything, so children have to sit outside the classroom, or sit outside the headmasters office or sit in the library.

A trial of ethics classes is being introduced so that these children can learn something useful instead of sitting outside. However, the churches are using all their lobbying power to stop the introduction of the trial arguing they may take students from scripture classes. It appears, for the churches, that this is a worse alternative than children having to sit outside the headmaster's office whilst scripture classes take place.

Being against the teaching of ethics due to it potentially taking children from scripture classes and thus ensuring children continue to sit outside the headmaster's office would appear to be unethical in itself.


http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...nst-secular-ethics-classes-20100413-s7pp.html

http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...akes-on-ethics-class-trial-20100416-skfy.html

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

At present in NSW, scripture classes are held in public schools (despite Australia's secularism) and where children choose not to attend, they are not allowed to be taught anything, so children have to sit outside the classroom, or sit outside the headmasters office or sit in the library.

A trial of ethics classes is being introduced so that these children can learn something useful instead of sitting outside. However, the churches are using all their lobbying power to stop the introduction of the trial arguing they may take students from scripture classes. It appears, for the churches, that this is a worse alternative than children having to sit outside the headmaster's office whilst scripture classes take place.

Being against the teaching of ethics due to it potentially taking children from scripture classes and thus ensuring children continue to sit outside the headmaster's office would appear to be unethical in itself.


http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...nst-secular-ethics-classes-20100413-s7pp.html

http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...akes-on-ethics-class-trial-20100416-skfy.html

This was trialled in Queensland and ended up being taken over by wishy washy lefty warmers and basket weavers, and they got the padres and nuns back in quick smart.

gg

 

[Knobby22]

This was trialled in Queensland and ended up being taken over by wishy washy lefty warmers and basket weavers, and they got the padres and nuns back in quick smart.

gg

We will get people from the leftist lesbian puppet collective running it for sure.

 

[Julia]

We will get people from the leftist lesbian puppet collective running it for sure.

Why?

 

[Knobby22]

Why?

Bit tongue in cheek, it will be people with their own agendas but it won't be Richard Dawkins.

Who do you reckon you will get Julia? Young Liberals?

 

[So_Cynical]

Bit tongue in cheek, it will be people with their own agendas but it won't be Richard Dawkins.

Who do you reckon you will get Julia? Young Liberals?

And of course crazy Christians would be better than leftist lesbians etc when was the last time a leftist lesbian was in the news for child abuse, or an atheist for that matter.

I think from memory me and the other 3 or 4 atheists/Buddhists/Hindus used to sit in the library...prob where my love of books and information stems from.

 

[Knobby22]

And of course crazy Christians would be better than leftist lesbians etc when was the last time a leftist lesbian was in the news for child abuse, or an atheist for that matter.

I think from memory me and the other 3 or 4 atheists/Buddhists/Hindus used to sit in the library...prob where my love of books and information stems from.

No you won't get Buddhists teaching it!

 

[gooner]

And of course crazy Christians would be better than leftist lesbians etc when was the last time a leftist lesbian was in the news for child abuse, or an atheist for that matter.

I think from memory me and the other 3 or 4 atheists/Buddhists/Hindus used to sit in the library...prob where my love of books and information stems from.

Personally, leftist lesbians teaching ethics sound better than scripture classes where religious dogma is taught as fact and intolerance is par for the course.

 

[Julia]

Who do you reckon you will get Julia? Young Liberals?

I don't know, but given that the idea has only just been proposed, I'd expect some detail on this to be forthcoming soon.

I'd imagine people who have actually studied ethics. There are some eminent ethicists around who would be well able to design an appropriate course to be taught by people who are not necessarily even teachers, but who have demonstrated a decent moral compass and ethical basis to their lives.

I can't imagine they could come up with anything much worse than the teaching of Scripture as in the Bible.

I don't know why there has to be such mocking of this subject. I'd have thought attempting to imbue our young people with some ethical foundation was a damn good idea. Why does it have to automatically invite derision and quasi political or sexist sarcasm?

Once upon a time, this forum had good discussions, with objectivity and a rational approach all round. Now, sadly, it's hardly worth participating due to the lack of genuinely thoughtful contributions.

 

[wayneL]

I wouldn't restrict it to ethics, but extend it to other human virtues as well.

In fact, toss in the religious study till after school for those who want it and have all students learn human virtues.

They is dyin' and need some TLC.

 

[Ruby]

Why do we need to have any sort of religious education in schools at all? If people want their children to learn scripture-as-in-the-bible, they can send them to sunday school or whatever it is the churches have for that purpose.

In Western Australia (and it may be in other states as well, I don't know) these classes have been abolished and churches have instead installed school chaplains in a lot of schools. These people are sort of non-religious school counsellors (whose salaries are paid by the churches). I don't know how well it works, but it seems to be quite popular.

 

[explod]

Well Well Well. I would say no religious teaching should be allowed in any school. We should not be telling children fairy tales and as far as we know at this stage God is a fairy tale. The teaching of lies in the long term just makes more liars.

Teach instead extra history and science subjects and out with the godbotherers. Sex education driven first by parents which could involve the ethics, stanger awareness and the lurking dangers in society.

Religion should be made as a free choice when a person has been educated and old enought to make that choice for themselves without coercion.

 

[gooner]

Why do we need to have any sort of religious education in schools at all? If people want their children to learn scripture-as-in-the-bible, they can send them to sunday school or whatever it is the churches have for that purpose.

In Western Australia (and it may be in other states as well, I don't know) these classes have been abolished and churches have instead installed school chaplains in a lot of schools. These people are sort of non-religious school counsellors (whose salaries are paid by the churches). I don't know how well it works, but it seems to be quite popular.

Ruby

The federal Government pays for the school chaplain policy, however only priests, imams etc who are attached to a religion are allowed to be chaplains. Non religious chaplains are only funded if a religious chaplain can not be found. I am sure most of them try to push their religious views onto children when they get the chance. Certainly, I would not leave my children alone with a preist or a imam - far too risky.

 

[Boognish]

I did 13 years in public Queensland schools and I am a staunch athiest but, apart from the boredom, I don't have any objection to having been taught the major stories in the Bible while at school. We were taught by believers but I don't recall them particularly prosthelytizing to us.

However the best Bible studies alternative class I was exposed to was at a more progressive school where students could choose to sit in with the Ba'hai class, where we learned about all the OTHER religions in the world. That was pretty interesting and the Ba'hai teacher's eldest daughter was a stunner too.

 

[Ruby]

Ruby

The federal Government pays for the school chaplain policy, however only priests, imams etc who are attached to a religion are allowed to be chaplains. Non religious chaplains are only funded if a religious chaplain can not be found. I am sure most of them try to push their religious views onto children when they get the chance. Certainly, I would not leave my children alone with a preist or a imam - far too risky.

No Gooner, this is not correct. My sister has been a school chaplain in WA for about 12 years. She is not a priest or anything similar, and the church has always funded her salary. I believe it is a group of churches. Now, the govt may kick something in - so I stand corrected there if that is the case.

She is strongly religious, which is how she got her job in the first place, but in discussions with her she has always stressed to me that her role is completely non-religious.

I hasten to add that her views are not my views. I am definitely anti-religion with all its nonsense and hypocrisy.

Also, I am not saying I approve of or support this initiative; just that it has been introduced as an alternative / substitute for what used to be "religious education" classes, and may serve a far more useful purpose.

 

[gooner]

No Gooner, this is not correct. My sister has been a school chaplain in WA for about 12 years. She is not a priest or anything similar, and the church has always funded her salary. I believe it is a group of churches. Now, the govt may kick something in - so I stand corrected there if that is the case.

She is strongly religious, which is how she got her job in the first place, but in discussions with her she has always stressed to me that her role is completely non-religious.

I hasten to add that her views are not my views. I am definitely anti-religion with all its nonsense and hypocrisy.

Also, I am not saying I approve of or support this initiative; just that it has been introduced as an alternative / substitute for what used to be "religious education" classes, and may serve a far more useful purpose.

Ruby. The below is from the Federal Government's funding program. Obviously schools may choose to pay themselves, but Government critieria for funding is to be attached to a church.

Who can be a school chaplain?
For the purposes of this Program, a school chaplain is a person who is recognised:

by the local school, its community and the appropriate governing authority as having the skills and experience to deliver school chaplaincy services to the school and its community; and
through formal ordination, commissioning, recognised qualifications or endorsement by a recognised or accepted religious institution or a State/Territory government approved chaplaincy service.
In particular circumstances, alternative endorsement arrangements may be considered on a case by case basis.

http://www.deewr.gov.au/Schooling/N...Pages/nscp_frequently_asked.aspx#whyisthegovt

 

[Ruby]

Gooner, I am quite willing to stand corrected. I am with you on this matter in any case.

Ruby

 

[Frank D]

Well Well Well. I would say no religious teaching should be allowed in any school.

Teach instead extra history and science subjects

Religion has been played a massive part throughout history….what so everyone should just forget about it because you don’t agree with.

It is the agenda of the teacher that corrupts the subject, the subject doesn’t corrupt.

Yes teach science, but god help them if it’s taught by some left wing looney.

 

[Ruby]

Religion has been played a massive part throughout history….what so everyone should just forget about it because you don’t agree with.

It is the agenda of the teacher that corrupts the subject, the subject doesn’t corrupt.

Yes teach science, but god help them if it’s taught by some left wing looney.

No-one said anyone should forget about religion if they don't want to - don't read into people's statements things which are not there - but school is not the right place to teach it.

If the subject is presented to vulnerable children as truth, when in fact it is not, then the subject can corrupt.

A science teacher's politics have no bearing on the science curriculum he is teaching. Be sensible!!

 

[Tink]

Good post Frank, I agree

If the subject is presented to vulnerable children as truth, when in fact it is not, then the subject can corrupt.

Isnt home where everything should be evaluated if thats what you want to do?