Home Insulation Debacle

[Julia]

I find this quite incredible, but it was in Radio National's "Breakfast" this morning that the safety inspections on the suspect roofs will be carried out by the installers who did the original job!!!!

 

[Calliope]

I think it would be best for the Coalition's electoral chances if Mr "I Saw Nothing" Garrett stays in the job, as a reminder of how incompetent the Rudd government is at implementing any program without graft and corruption and waste taking over.

The opposition wants his scalp. But Garrett is the government's human pink batt, insulating Rudd and his cabinet from the heat. For no other reason he's hanging on.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...sorbs-the-heat-20100222-orrv.html?autostart=1

 

[Spiderbrain]

I find this quite incredible, but it was in Radio National's "Breakfast" this morning that the safety inspections on the suspect roofs will be carried out by the installers who did the original job!!!!

That blew me away too, you couldn't make up a better story of a debacle than this has turned into. It's what you get when you throw a few billion dollars into a mix of incompetance, ignorance, greed and a big bag of bull**** I guess!

 

[Smurf1976]

At least the home insulation debacle has put the spotlight fairly and squarely on the incapacity of Commonwealth bureaucrats to administer any national program, whether it be renewable energy, water conservation, aboriginal housing or just wisely spending taxpayers' money without most of it disappearing in administrative waste and graft.

God help us if the Commonwealth ever takes over the hospitals, as Rudd keeps threatening.

A recuring theme is the "abolish the states" idea.

Take a look at what actually happens and I'd argue that whilst the states are a long way from perfect, they aren't the problem that the Commonwealth is in terms of making a mess of things.

 

[Smurf1976]

Regarding the issue with metal foil insulation and electrical shock, it must be understood that there is a real possiblity that the outside parts of a metal roof, including painted metal such as Colorbond and including metal parts attached to the roof such as downpipes or TV antennas, may be live with mains voltage electricity due to incorrect installation of this type of insulation.

For your own safety, I recommend that you pay for your own inspection by a properly licensed electrician if you have any doubts about this issue and that you keep well away from the roof and anything attached to it in the meantime.

If you have any symptoms of electricity being where it shouldn't be, for example if anything in the house "tingles", then call your electricity supplier WITHOUT DELAY as you are at real risk if DEATH by electrocution. I can not stress this point too strongly. They might simply disconnect your power until you pay an electrician to fix the problem, but a cold shower tomorrow morning, no TV and a candlelit dinner is vastly preferable to death...

For non-metallic (foil) insulation, I recommend that you, someone you know or someone else that you pay takes a look at it, paying particular attention to downlights (MUST NOT be covered with insulation), around heater flues, wiring and so on. Also get them to check that the insulation has actually been installed properly while they're up there.

Personally, I wouldn't be trusting my safety to one of these "fly by night" insulation installers inspecting their own work. Check yourself or pay someone independent to check for you. (Make sure you turn the power off before going into the roof, just in case...).

Forget the politics and forget the cost - your safety and that of your family is the most urgent issue here. If you are concerned then either check yourself if you know what you're doing or pay a few $ and get someone to check for you. A nuisance and an expense maybe, but it sure beats needing a funeral...

 

[Smurf1976]

I see that the conveniently buried cut to the solar hot water grant amongst all of this seems to have gone largely unnoticed...

Can't trust these politicians. Despite all the fuss and criticism, they still manage to hide a roughly 40% cut amongst it all. Incredible...

 

[Trembling Hand]

a candlelit dinner is vastly preferable to death...
...

I dunno bout that,

I've had a few where I was weighing up the two options.

 

[moXJO]

I find this quite incredible, but it was in Radio National's "Breakfast" this morning that the safety inspections on the suspect roofs will be carried out by the installers who did the original job!!!!

Yes, apparently there is a two week course to become an inspector. Week one involves teaching the applicants how to lick their finger. Week two shows them how to apply it to metal foil insulation.

 

[roland]

Regarding the issue with metal foil insulation and electrical shock, it must be understood that there is a real possiblity that the outside parts of a metal roof, including painted metal such as Colorbond and including metal parts attached to the roof such as downpipes or TV antennas, may be live with mains voltage electricity due to incorrect installation of this type of insulation.

For your own safety, I recommend that you pay for your own inspection by a properly licensed electrician if you have any doubts about this issue and that you keep well away from the roof and anything attached to it in the meantime.

If you have any symptoms of electricity being where it shouldn't be, for example if anything in the house "tingles", then call your electricity supplier WITHOUT DELAY as you are at real risk if DEATH by electrocution. I can not stress this point too strongly. They might simply disconnect your power until you pay an electrician to fix the problem, but a cold shower tomorrow morning, no TV and a candlelit dinner is vastly preferable to death...

For non-metallic (foil) insulation, I recommend that you, someone you know or someone else that you pay takes a look at it, paying particular attention to downlights (MUST NOT be covered with insulation), around heater flues, wiring and so on. Also get them to check that the insulation has actually been installed properly while they're up there.

Personally, I wouldn't be trusting my safety to one of these "fly by night" insulation installers inspecting their own work. Check yourself or pay someone independent to check for you. (Make sure you turn the power off before going into the roof, just in case...).

Forget the politics and forget the cost - your safety and that of your family is the most urgent issue here. If you are concerned then either check yourself if you know what you're doing or pay a few $ and get someone to check for you. A nuisance and an expense maybe, but it sure beats needing a funeral...

As an additional warning, some of the live roofs have found to be caused by staples through the main lead in from the street before the household power board. So turning off the power will not necessarily render the roof space safe.

 

[Aussiejeff]

Yes, apparently there is a two week course to become an inspector. Week one involves teaching the applicants how to lick their finger. Week two shows them how to apply it to metal foil insulation.

Oh.

I thought they were just going to use the tips of their tongues?

 

[moXJO]

Oh.

I thought they were just going to use the tips of their tongues?

That’s the advanced course.

 

[Calliope]

Rudd has come clean. He has admitted that he, alone, is responsible for the insulation stuff-up.

This is not surprising. He is the common denominator in long line of stuff-ups. He is a bureaucrat, running a government of bureaucrats. It is only natural that as a manager of any national scheme calling for entrepreneurial expertise he and his gang are a complete failure.

 

[Julia]

In what context did the Dear Leader make such an admission, Calliope?

He really does have to do this. The insulation plan would have been a whole of government decision as part of the great stimulus, and as such - incompetent though Garrett has been - it would be too much loss of face for him to back down now. So if Rudd shares the blame, as it were, some of the heat goes out from under Garrett. For now.

 

[Calliope]

In what context did the Dear Leader make such an admission, Calliope?

Rudd accepts ultimate responsibility for insulation debacle

PRIME Minister Kevin Rudd accepts ultimate responsibility for the problems that have plagued his Government's failed insulation program.

His Environment Minister, Peter Garrett, has been fighting for his political life over the now axed insulation scheme that has been linked to four deaths and 93 house fires.

"As far as responsibility for any Government program, I, as Prime Minister of the country, am responsible for the good news, the bad news, the implementation of programs effectively, the implementation of programs that have problems," Mr Rudd said.

"As Prime Minister of the country, I take full responsibility for that that goes well and that which doesn't go so well. That does not exclude the debate concerning this program."

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...sulation-debacle/story-e6frfku0-1225833339398

 

[Duckman#72]

He really does have to do this. The insulation plan would have been a whole of government decision as part of the great stimulus, and as such - incompetent though Garrett has been - it would be too much loss of face for him to back down now. So if Rudd shares the blame, as it were, some of the heat goes out from under Garrett. For now.

This is going to sound strange but ..........Garrett is more important to Rudd now, than in any time over the past 2 years!!!

I agree Julia. It is not out of any great love for Garrett that Rudd hasn't cut him. Garrett was a Latham appointment anyway. But neither is Rudd being "noble and loyal" to one of his Ministers. It is entirely a politically motivated decision (and wise on Rudd's part).Under most criteria from which to judge the performance of a Minister's department, Garrett deserves to go.

There are two problems for Rudd - firstly his decision to "micro-manage" and control everything is very well known. It is extremely unlikely or extremely embarrassing if Rudd didn't know about the Minter Ellison report. The criticism isn't just a swipe at Garrett, it's also at Rudd. I think cutting Garrett with this as a reason would raise questions at "what did Rudd know?".

Secondly - and more importantly, if Garrett goes the next head on the block is the PM's. Rudd needs Garrett to act as a circuit-breaker, that's his role now. Labor can now astutely move to pile all its "greenie" policy failures towards Garrett and then at the right time drop him.

It suggests to me that there is a lot more crap to hit the fan yet - and Rudd knows it!!! By dumping Garrett now, Rudd directly takes the heat for the "mop-up" over the next few months. Negative stories every week hitting the media is not what Kev is all about. Hence we have a new Minister - Peter Garrett "Minister for Heat Deflection". The Coalition don't want Garret's scalp - they want Rudd's. It's just they need to break through the armour to get to the underbelly of the PM.

Garrett might not have been made to walk the plank by Rudd, but neither is Garrett back on the ship's deck. Rudd has effectively just told Garrett to "take a seat" on the end of the plank.

I don't know how close Gillard and Garrett are, but for Julia's leadership aspirations, the best outcome for her would be for Garrett to resign immediately. Hence another reason for Rudd to ensure Garrett is going nowhere.

Duckman

 

[bellenuit]

In today's The West Australian it says that so long as the installer hasn't been de-registered (or has re-registered) he/she will be allowed inspect their own work as part of the inspection program.

That is open to abuse on many fronts. If the installer has to correct the original work for free, then there is the incentive to report the original as satisfactory. If the installer gets paid for the corrective work, then there is the incentive to declare originally correct installations as faulty to generate additional work.

 

[Julia]

In today's The West Australian it says that so long as the installer hasn't been de-registered (or has re-registered) he/she will be allowed inspect their own work as part of the inspection program.

That is open to abuse on many fronts. If the installer has to correct the original work for free, then there is the incentive to report the original as satisfactory. If the installer gets paid for the corrective work, then there is the incentive to declare originally correct installations as faulty to generate additional work.

Yep, I expressed outrage about this earlier.
It's just not credible to think that an installer, newly 'qualified' as an 'inspector', is going to go back and look at his original work and say, 'oh my goodness, I really stuffed this up"!
Ridiculous.

 

[Trembling Hand]

A good vid by Fairfax on "how to assassinate a Minister",

http://media.theage.com.au/opinion/national-times/how-to-assassinate-a-minister-1168638.html

 

[noco]

Only a ROYAL COMMISSION can possibly bring out the truth with this debacle as to who knew WHAT and WHEN.

The lies that are being told by Rudd and Garrett at question time is very obvious and a only a Royal Commission can settle the whole thing.

Just how the opposition can force this upon the Government I do not know. Perhaps an ASF member could enlighten me.

 

[awg]

It's ok to commit fraud and tell everyone on ASF but it's not ok for dodgy installers to rort the Government's Home Insulation Scheme?

I don't get it - aren't you a hypocrite and a thief?

The above reply to an earlier post by me has just come to my attention.


Dear conscience/zzaaxxss3401,

Fair enough I guess, I did leave myself open, as my initial post was inadequately worded at best.

Perhaps the intended irony in my own example did not come across?... and my intention was to reclaim the lost interest from the govt keeping my refund for six months...not theft or fraud as condemned.(imo)

From an administrative point of view, if I just send it back, it will be worse than cashing it and waiting for them to ask for it back..which will surely happen.(imo)

hope this makes you feel better