Tribute to Car Accident Kids - I'm Angry!!!

[moXJO]

The problem is all the restrictions in the world wont help someone who simply wont listen to reason. Education doesn't always help either - there's an immaturity to many younger drivers that education alone wont pierce.

Yep I agree.
There are a lot of young drivers on our roads, and most will do something stupid from time to time. When you’re young there isn't a lot of thought for consequences. I don't think there is a lot more you can do that hasn't been done already. Most people are lucky and have a tale of recklessness in youth, but others pay the ultimate price.

 

[gordon2007]

When are we going to stop being a nation of excuses? It wasn't the car that killed these people. It wasn't the lack of experience nor was it a lack of training.

What it was...was a man who made a conscience decision to drink drive, knowing full well that he could kill himself, people in the car and other innocent people driving on the road.


He ended up doing just that!

 

[donkeykong]

Stopping p platers from owning high powered cars won’t help. When I was on my p’s I had a crap old car but always used to “borrow” my dads supercharged commodore and drive it at ridiculous speeds which i’ll be the first one to admit was totally moronic but if the cars have the ability to do it then teenage boys will always try to push the limits. Cars need to be limited to say 125-130kmph so the temptation isn’t there. The whole system of cars and roads is inherently dangerous and there will still be accidents even if we all are putting around at 40kmph but at least reducing the maximum speeds these cars can do will minimise some of these horror accidents.

Thankfully I had a minor crash (not my fault at all, got tboned at an intersection) as well as knowing 5 guys my age from the country area I grew up with who all died in accidents before I turned 20 really set me straight as far as being responsible on the road.

The police also need to stop being total c#$#s and busting people for doing 3kmph over the speed limit and instead put those resources into taking dangerous drivers off the road.

 

[Tink]

When are we going to stop being a nation of excuses? It wasn't the car that killed these people. It wasn't the lack of experience nor was it a lack of training.

What it was...was a man who made a conscience decision to drink drive, knowing full well that he could kill himself, people in the car and other innocent people driving on the road.


He ended up doing just that!

Yep I agree with you.

How much MORE education can we put out there about all this.

Its on TV, newspapers, radio and I am sure parents are reinforcing it at home.

As Mofra said, this guy wasnt allowed passengers

 

[Mr J]

Regarding the tribute, my first impression was the same as Julia suggested - someone doing it not as a tribute, but to make a statement.

High powered cars and P plate drivers is a lethal combination, just hope government's take action.

No, cars and stupidity can be a lethal combination. The majority of owners of high-powered cars and P-platers seem to be okay. It doesn't take a high-powered car to do 140km/h, and 140km/h isn't necessarily unsafe. It's not a matter of driver inexperience, speed, the car etc, it's driving inappropriately for the conditions. In short, the driver was an idiot.

Nearly ALL these cases there was drinking involved, car load of kids, all pissed or half pissed, yet its the speed that killed them, nothing to do with the booze??

Exactly. Speed is always mentioned, and the "speed kills" mantra is constantly hammered into us. Often excess speed for the conditions contributes to the accident, but anyone who simply states that "speed kills" is not thinking for themselves. There are plenty of unsafe drivers who do not exceed the posted limit.

Why do we still make cars that are capable of doing twice that?? I'ts got me beat.
Until then, young people will keep dying..simple as that.

That sounds about as reasonable as the typical "think of the children" arguments. Cars capable of 120km/h+ are not the reason young people die on the roads. I have no idea of the stats, but I'd be surprised if the majority didn't die within 20km/h of the speed limit (and the speed limit is usually quite a bit lower than it should be).

Because the message certainly doesn't appear to be getting through.

What message would that be? I can only recall the speed, fatigue and drinking messages. There don't seem to be any messages talking of the responsibility and consequence. I agree with drinking and fatigue, but there's nothing else that is done to address the problems.

That brings me to another point - what is the problem? It seems that I hear about the road toll every day and how it compares to last year. There are obviously going to be people dying on the roads, yet we treat it as completely unacceptable? Most accidents are due to driver error, so why can't we just accept that occasionally people will make an error or do something stupid? Yes, each crash is a tragedy and is treated as such in the media, but all of this is completely overblown in my opinion.

Maybe parents need to learn how to say 'no' to their children. Why kids need brand new or very late model cars for their first car is beyond me.

A lot of kids pay for their own car, so it's not like their parents have a say. Don't need to pay much to get a fast car.

Dont argue about it - Speed Kills. For example, hit a pedestrian at 60km per hour or at 40kph the survival rate is increased enormously at 40kph..

So do you want to decrease all normal roads to 40km/h? Why are we restricting cars when it is often the pedestrian that walks out in front of a car? Why not teach pedestrian awareness instead? Oh, I know why. Lowering the limit satisfies the rabid "save the children" crowd, as well as bringing in greater revenue.

Errors or unfortunate events (such as hitting an oil slick) lead to accidents. Yes, speed can kill, but at any speed. The typical examples of "speed kills" are people who drive at a speed inappropriate for the conditions and their level of skill.

What a crock, if you were driving home with your family in the car are you saying that you would feel just as safe if a car load of drunken punks were coming towards you at 140kmh as you would be if they were doing 60 kmh.

You're asking whether he would feel as safe, but when does emotion equate to fact? The fact is that no, he isn't as save due to the increased force in a potential collision, but it's also likely that travelling more than double the limit is inappropriate for the conditions (unless it's going across the Harbour Bridge or Anzac Bridge).

As Sam says, drunken punks? I'd be far, far more concerned about their state of sobbriety than their speed.

Exceeding designated speed limits increases the danger to self and others. This cannot be understated.

That's not necessarily the case. While a higher speed means more force in a potential accident, the lower speed may increase the chance of an accident. We have a speed we naturally want to travel at - a sweet spot between uncomfortable and boredom. If we go too fast, we obviously increase the chance of an accident due to exceeding our level of skill. If we go too slow, we risk an error due to lack of concentration at what we deem as too comfortable a speed.

Designated limits are often rubbish. Consider that they are the lowest common denominator. Some people will travel significantly slower than the posted limit, but most will travel around that limit, so obviousoly officials have to take that into account. There's also a lot of lowering of speed limits over the last 10-15 years (that I've noticed), which I think is largely due to collecting speeding fines. Also consider the speed cops travel at. Fine, they're apparently "highly-trained", but is that enough for them to travel at 100km/h when the public is deemed unsafe above 50km/h? I think it would be unreasonable to think so.

Kids....make mistakes.

People of all ages do, it's just the idiot P-platers that tend to get plastered in the headlines. They seem to be a favourite target, and there are plenty of reasons why they are targeted.

But I've seen quite a few horror smashes (through work) and the ones that immediately come to mind (multiple serious injuries, at least one fatality in each case, vehicle split into half etc) all involved ordinary (not high performance) cars running into stationary objects beside the road, including in the city centre. And most of them were full of young people. All were travelling at high speeds. And they were all at night, generally Friday or Saturday night.

I imagine young people average far more mileage on Friday and Saturday nights than other groups. Cars are also more likely to have more passengers on these nights, and of course drivers are more likely to be intoxicated. I'm not suggesting that young drivers aren't a higher risk on these nights, but it seems that none of this is ever considered.

If I was going to change the law, it would be to ban P plate drivers from carrying more than one passenger under 25 after dark unless there is a legitimate need (eg driving directly to or from work / uni).

So the majority of P-platers have to be punished for the actions of the moronic minority? Yes, P-platers are at higher risk, but nowhere as high as portrayed in the media. It's certainly nowhere near high enough to justify such as an extreme measure. I'd go for blackboxes before I went for this, and I hate the idea of blackboxes.

The problem remains, that young people are at high-speed wrapping themselves around trees and lightpoles.
How can it be stopped?

What problem? That P-platers are more likely to have an accident? That a minority act like idiots and give the rest an undeservedly bad reputation? How about problems for others groups, such as middle-aged men buying motorbikes (which I believe is the group at highest risk on the road)? Older people who can not drive at an appropriate level? People who struggle parking their cars?

 

[Wysiwyg]

I typed ....

Originally Posted by Wysiwyg
Exceeding designated speed limits increases the danger to self and others. This cannot be understated.

You typed .....

That's not necessarily the case. While a higher speed means more force in a potential accident, the lower speed may increase the chance of an accident. We have a speed we naturally want to travel at - a sweet spot between uncomfortable and boredom. If we go too fast, we obviously increase the chance of an accident due to exceeding our level of skill. If we go too slow, we risk an error due to lack of concentration at what we deem as too comfortable a speed.

Designated limits are often rubbish. Consider that they are the lowest common denominator. Some people will travel significantly slower than the posted limit, but most will travel around that limit, so obviousoly officials have to take that into account. There's also a lot of lowering of speed limits over the last 10-15 years (that I've noticed), which I think is largely due to collecting speeding fines. Also consider the speed cops travel at. Fine, they're apparently "highly-trained", but is that enough for them to travel at 100km/h when the public is deemed unsafe above 50km/h? I think it would be unreasonable to think so.

Because I don't see any value in being argumentative, I will keep it brief by typing; you have a poor understanding of the social system.

 

[awg]

It would be enlightening to know if a similar debate exists in USA

A comparable Country, using relatively high power vehicles.

The notion that speed is not a major factor in the deaths of these young people is fallacious imo

The reaction time to correct is reduced as a direct linear factor of speed.

Even more so g-force due to acceleration ( and deceleration) is what really gets an inexperienced driver, the vehicle will obey the laws of physics, and is no longer under the drivers control.

As an example, my early cars were 1200-1500cc, low power, and while I could drive them both fast and dangerous, you really had to work at it.

By contrast, my modified 300hp+ beast has a throttle that still scares me, breaks traction at the slightest impropriety and would be a deadset killer with a young fool behind the wheel ( as opposed to an old fool)

 

[ColB]

Originally Posted by Duckman

"...I am waiting for the day a girlfriend pins a pack of condoms, a pair of handcuffs and a g-string on a tree, with the words "You were the best root I ever had".

Geez Duckman, you can't be all that old remembering things like that

 

[Mr J]

I typed ....
You typed .....

Because I don't see any value in being argumentative, I will keep it brief by typing you have a poor understanding of the social system.

Expanding on a differing opinion isn't argumentative. I'm in the dark if you don't - I just had a workout and there's no blood going to my brain at the moment .

The notion that speed is not a major factor in the deaths of these young people is fallacious imo

I don't think you'll find many people ruling out speed as a factor. Any speed is a factor in an accident, and clearly 140km/h was a major contributing factor in one way or another.

It would be enlightening to know if a similar debate exists in USA

My guess is that it is worse. Cars are cheaper, and many get their licences earlier. Lots of freeway and a stronger street racing culture.

 

[zzaaxxss3401]

When are we going to stop being a nation of excuses? It wasn't the car that killed these people. It wasn't the lack of experience nor was it a lack of training.

What it was...was a man who made a conscience decision to drink drive, knowing full well that he could kill himself, people in the car and other innocent people driving on the road.

He ended up doing just that!

Totally agree with all of your posts gordon2007! I think you're spot on and although a total waste of life I'm glad they're off our road. Just one question, if the parents / relatives suggested that they were "full of life", why did they perform such a life threatening act, with fatal consequences???

 

[Macquack]

...my modified 300hp+ beast has a throttle that still scares me, breaks traction at the slightest impropriety and would be a deadset killer with a young fool behind the wheel ( as opposed to an old fool)

awg, what is your beast?

 

[Duckman#72]

It was announced this morning that the blood alcohol reading of the driver was .19. Now the arrows will be fired off.

Below is an article written in the Courier Mail in 2008. Very similar to this situation. If I was associated with the teenagers I'd be moving it as well.


SHOCKED relatives yesterday removed alcohol containers that were placed at a makeshift shrine to two young road crash victims.

Along with flowers and a cross, two unopened cans of bourbon, cola and guarana were left under the Welcome to Redcliffe sign at Clontarf, scene of the crash, along with empty beer bottles.

Paul Sorenson was appalled to hear about the "tribute" to his 20-year-old son Ian Murphy and nephew Garth Freeman, 16, "as that was a contributing factor towards my son's death". Ian and Garth were killed instantly last Saturday when their Holden Commodore struck a traffic island and flipped. Police estimate it was doing up to 140km/h and said there was a strong smell of alcohol in the vehicle.

One of the friends who left the bottles at the makeshift memorial emailed The Courier-Mail yesterday to explain.

"The alcohol was left as a sign of RESPECT," "G" wrote.

Police said the use of alcohol in the tribute was in poor taste and sent completely the wrong message.

"Two young people have died here and we've got bottles of booze sitting on a cross. It's just tragic and senseless," said Redcliffe Traffic Branch Snr Sergeant Garth Peake.

Duckman

 

[Happy]

Bad news is that it is not the last senseless death.

Good news is that not all drunk drivers got killed and chances are that some took notice.

 

[stock nub]

0.19 = ridiculously drunk + speeding. What a f---ing idiot.How can someone have so little respect for the passengers in the car? I guess they all chose to accept a lift/joy ride? However if you are the driver you are in control of other peoples lives! I have no sympathy for the driver.

 

[gordon2007]

Good news is that not all drunk drivers got killed and chances are that some took notice.

The good news is that there is one less mass murderer on the road that I need to worry about.

Perhaps if we, the local, state and the rest of our government start treating these people as the murderous scumbags they are, then maybe finally people will start to understand what can happen if you choose to drink drive.

I personally wish the press and governments would talk and treat these people just as they do towards criminals.

 

[Aussiejeff]

The good news is that there is one less mass murderer on the road that I need to worry about.

Perhaps if we, the local, state and the rest of our government start treating these people as the murderous scumbags they are, then maybe finally people will start to understand what can happen if you choose to drink drive.

I personally wish the press and governments would talk and treat these people just as they do towards criminals.

Instead, the media quickly lunges for the Violin Of Sadness and publishes endless tributes from families & "friends" extolling the deceased's angelic "virtues".

*sigh*

Media absolutely pi$$ me orf when it comes to them peddling this crap.... :angry:

Fer chrisakes, can't they call a spade a frickin' spade for once??????

Where have all the "incisive", hard-hitting journos like old George Negus etc gone? What the hell has happened to our media???

**double sigh**

 

[gordon2007]

Instead, the media quickly lunges for the Violin Of Sadness and publishes endless tributes from families & "friends" extolling the deceased's angelic "virtues".

Well said. I think that's why I get so pissed off about these type of things.

You want tragic, the girl that was driving her car along greenhill rd here in SA and a bloody gumtree branch fell on her car, causing her to crash and she died two days later. That was TRAGIC.

 

[gordon2007]

And then we have this;

"Hoons caught close to site of Vic crash"

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/6699724/hoons-caught-close-to-site-of-vic-crash/


"Hoons caught doing burnouts near where five young people died were disrespecting the families of the dead, a senior policeman says.

Standing amid burnout rubber, skid marks and twisted wheel metal on Wednesday, Assistant Commissioner Tim Cartwright said he was incredibly frustrated the message about safe driving wasn't getting through.

"People just don't seem to be getting the message," he told reporters.

"Right here, on Monday night, our local traffic management people impounded a car, (after) a crazy piece of driving doing burnouts with four or five people in his car..."

 

[GumbyLearner]

Dumb**** Idaho Bathurst mentality of the youth of Australia.

Absolutely ridiculous and the mentality rares its ugly meathead yet again.

 

[Mr J]

"People just don't seem to be getting the message," he told reporters.

"Right here, on Monday night, our local traffic management people impounded a car, (after) a crazy piece of driving doing burnouts with four or five people in his car..."

One example is not a proper description for "people". So many generalisations flying around. I realise that wasn't your statement Gordon.