Tribute to Car Accident Kids - I'm Angry!!!

[son of baglimit]

Did anyone notice what car they were in??????

Bright blue XR6 or XR8!

Now how many times do we see an over powered commodore/falcon wrapped around a tree with a p plater driving it?

I think the answer is a lot more than a p plater in a excel or any other less powerful car.

Connection between fast cars, young kids and crashes??

This happens over and over but the govt doesnt seem to want to step in and ban p platers driving over powered cars. If this occured then we may not see this as much.

i remember in the 70's when cars were made of steel and weighed a ton, and only a few high powered cars & exotic european models could achieve 100km in under 10 secs. now pretty much every car can, whether its a xr6 or an excel. shows like top gear continue to promote the ability of these cars to do so.

im not criticising top gear, or entering into the high powered cars argument, cos i dont know enough about them, but simple developments in car design mean EVERY CAR IS CAPABLE OF DOING THE DAMAGE SEEN TODAY.

the days of learning in a sturdy 15yo kingswood, falcon, sigma, morris etc are long gone, and why? cos kids want now, and parents wont tell them no.

 

[GumbyLearner]

i remember in the 70's when cars were made of steel and weighed a ton, and only a few high powered cars & exotic european models could achieve 100km in under 10 secs. now pretty much every car can, whether its a xr6 or an excel. shows like top gear continue to promote the ability of these cars to do so.

im not criticising top gear, or entering into the high powered cars argument, cos i dont know enough about them, but simple developments in car design mean EVERY CAR IS CAPABLE OF DOING THE DAMAGE SEEN TODAY.

the days of learning in a sturdy 15yo kingswood, falcon, sigma, morris etc are long gone, and why? cos kids want now, and parents wont tell them no.

That's a great post.

It's all a question of physics. Maybe more physics should be taught in schools. Because the message certainly doesn't appear to be getting through.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

i remember in the 70's when cars were made of steel and weighed a ton, and only a few high powered cars & exotic european models could achieve 100km in under 10 secs. now pretty much every car can, whether its a xr6 or an excel. shows like top gear continue to promote the ability of these cars to do so.

im not criticising top gear, or entering into the high powered cars argument, cos i dont know enough about them, but simple developments in car design mean EVERY CAR IS CAPABLE OF DOING THE DAMAGE SEEN TODAY.

the days of learning in a sturdy 15yo kingswood, falcon, sigma, morris etc are long gone, and why? cos kids want now, and parents wont tell them no.

Sturdy mate?? I wouldn't say any of those cars are sturdy. Would you rather an old car for kids to learn in, with no airbags, no disc brakes, no decent tyres and handles like a boat rather than a modern car with all this and that handles half decent? This is my point, whether its driving a later model car or an old "sturdy" car, the same damage can be done, just think. Car load of young people, alcohol involved, they feel more confident, getting egged on by their mates, no matter WHAT car they are driving, it isn't going to end well, and NOT because of the speed, but because of the skill, or lack thereof mixed with alcohol and friends. These modern cars at least have half a chance of helping survival with the safety systems they have etc.

Top Gear also do it on in a controlled environment, this is what they need to make compulsory for young new drivers, have a course that is detailed and comprehensive and tough to pass, it will save their lives, teach them JUDGEMENT, how far you need before you pull out, and how fast you will hit that tree if you go off the road, give them techniques, have a course at a circuit somewhere, wet the corners, have a strip where its road and gravel, just like on the road, and tell them to run a wheel off so they get the feel of all this stuff.

I am young myself, and I have done a few track days, where we had exercises like this, it is a MASSIVE help, a life saver. Also being at the track makes you 10x more aware on the road, you notice how close that guard rail is or how close those trees are.

It doesn't matter how fast the car can accelerate to 100km/h, thats not when they crash, its when they are already doing 100km/h+ and things get out of control, and pretty much any car can do the speed limit, and when you go off the road, whether you're doing 100km/h or 120 or 140, its not going to be pretty if you don't know how to react. Doing the activities + more that I have mentioned in their OWN car is a HUGE advantage too.

IMO, this would make a world of difference. Places like Finland I think it is have this sort of system to get your license and as far as I know it HAS made a huge difference, young people know how to handle the car when things get sideways.

But if they are pissed behind the wheel, then it doesn't make any difference does it....oh, but its speed!

 

[GumbyLearner]

But if they are pissed behind the wheel, then it doesn't make any difference does it....oh, but its speed!

you could substitute the word speed with the expression 'understanding of physics'. And anyone who has worked for the man driving a truck (meet your DEADlines) could probably substitute it with 'goeeeeee'.

I stand by my last post. An understanding of physics and forceful consequences of it should be a pre-req for Learners and P-platers.

 

[Wysiwyg]

I stand by my last post. An understanding of physics and forceful consequences of it should be a pre-req for Learners and P-platers.

Yes and how many of us testosterone pumped youths tried to push the limits of speed, height, distance, rules and stupidity? I could have died or been seriously injured three times in cars and on bike.

 

[GumbyLearner]

Yes and how many of us testosterone pumped youths tried to push the limits of speed, height, distance, rules and stupidity? I could have died or been seriously injured three times in cars and on bike.

Plenty. That's not the point. Learn from history and the stats they provide or repeat the carnage. IMVHO!

 

[Macquack]

But if they are pissed behind the wheel, then it doesn't make any difference does it....oh, but its speed!

Sam, I generally agree with what you say (particularly the track driving experience). However, to dismiss the "speed" factor is naive.

If that falcon was doing 60km/h instead of 160km/h then they would have all survived.

Maybe governors should be introduced for all cars driven by "P" plate drivers. Not for the rest of us responsible drivers.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Sam, I generally agree with what you say (particularly the track driving experience). However, to dismiss the "speed" factor is naive.

If that falcon was doing 60km/h instead of 160km/h then they would have all survived.

Maybe governors should be introduced for all cars driven by "P" plate drivers. Not for the rest of us responsible drivers.

Yes obviously, if the car wasn't moving they would be fine etc etc. If we ban cars altogether there would be no accidents....but thats just silly isn't it. Change the speed limit to 60km/h everywhere, see what happens If the car did 60km/h everyone would be fine, thats irrelevant, the fact is, people do speed, they always will, especially young people, and accidents will ALWAYS happen, we're all human, so concentrate on making them able behind the wheel, not useless.

My point is they can go 60, 100, 150 in ANY car, so banning "high powered" cars wouldn't make any difference. As I said before, these cars also have the right components to handle these speeds, its the skill that needs attention.

 

[gordon2007]

Maybe parents need to learn how to say 'no' to their children. Why kids need brand new or very late model cars for their first car is beyond me. Maybe parents need to understand that when their children get done for speeding, they got it because they really were speeding. Don't tell them it wasn't their fault and don't tell them the cops where just out to make a quick dollar off of them because they're an easy target.

I get really annoyed when I hear "oh but they were such good kids". Bullcrap!. This kid was a drunken hoon who killed four others. I view him the same as a serial killer.

With the history that we have of drink drivers, there is no way anyone cannot know the problems that can be caused by drink driving. It craps me off to no end how we're supposed to feel empathy towards killers like these.

 

[son of baglimit]

Sturdy mate?? I wouldn't say any of those cars are sturdy. Would you rather an old car for kids to learn in, with no airbags, no disc brakes, no decent tyres and handles like a boat rather than a modern car with all this and that handles half decent? This is my point, whether its driving a later model car or an old "sturdy" car, the same damage can be done, just think. Car load of young people, alcohol involved, they feel more confident, getting egged on by their mates, no matter WHAT car they are driving, it isn't going to end well, and NOT because of the speed, but because of the skill, or lack thereof mixed with alcohol and friends. These modern cars at least have half a chance of helping survival with the safety systems they have etc.

sorry, let me expand. those old sturdy cars - many couldnt even reach 100kmh, let alone 140, when 15yo - the point is if you simply havent got the machine to achieve 100kmh, you aint gonna achieve it.
ALL CARS can achieve it now - yeah all cars have various level of safety added to them, but at 100kmh+, theres not much that IS gonna save you.
im not entering debates on top gear, alcohol, car specs, safety - this is simply an observation formed over recent years.

 

[Macquack]

My point is they can go 60, 100, 150 in ANY car, so banning "high powered" cars wouldn't make any difference. As I said before, these cars also have the right components to handle these speeds, its the skill that needs attention.

Mate, you are overrating the handling ability of modern high performance cars. If anything, the modern cars are a lot smoother to drive, you appear to be going slower than you actually are, BUT you come unstuck a lot quicker with less warning.

No car was designed to drive at 160km/h through suburban streets.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Mate, you are overrating the handling ability of modern high performance cars. If anything, the modern cars are a lot smoother to drive, you appear to be going slower than you actually are, BUT you come unstuck a lot quicker with less warning.

No car was designed to drive at 160km/h through suburban streets.

Rubbish.

It depends totally on each car, but a lot quicker and less warning?? You can't be serious. Think about what is happening, most fatal crashes are at 100km/h+, if you had an old kingswood, falcon, magna, gemini, whatever and started trying to correct a panic slide, jam the brakes on for some reason or swerve, with the tyres, the brakes and the amount of body roll that would be going on, it would be FAR worse than something like the kids are driving these days, skylines, EVOs, WRXs, SSs, XR8s etc which have phenomenal brakes and handling IN COMPARISON to the old cars which they would be driving around if those cars were banned, reaching the same speeds anyway. I have been in an accident myself where the car I was in was able to pull up in time because of its brilliant brakes, and the person behind in an old laser crashed into the back of us because of the useless ability of the car.

But as I said before and I'll say it again, if alcohol is involved it all goes out the window, that and SKILL are the key points, doesn't matter what car, how fast, teach them what to do in these situations.

Anyway, thats enough from me, I've made my point clear.

 

[jbocker]

...

No car was designed to drive at 160km/h through suburban streets.

That Macquack has HIT the nail on the head. End of argument.

Add to that it helps to have training to handle situations when things go bad (but there is NO GUARANTEE that you will not panic in a real situation), remember you are trained at road speed not 140kph.
Dont argue about it - Speed Kills. For example, hit a pedestrian at 60km per hour or at 40kph the survival rate is increased enormously at 40kph.

I feel the pain for those families left with the tragedy.
Talk to you kids. Ask them what it would feel like if you were the driver and survived.

 

[Julia]

I have a very harsh view towards these type of deaths.

They were breaking the law, drinking and speeding and apparently too many people in the car too. The driver should be up for a darwin award.

If a man goes and robs a store and accidently shoots himself and dies, why is it so many think, 'the fool deserved it'. Yet when someone breaks the law and drives drunk, speeds and is generally a hoon, it's suddenly a tragic event.

Doesn't fly in my book. I'd rather they kill themselves then kill some innocent family getting rammed by this moron and killing them.

I agree. These kids made a decision to do what they did. It all went wrong and they're dead. But at least they didn't charge straight into some innocent driver and kill or maim them as well.

I'd like to see cars simply taken off drunk drivers. The penalties at present are no deterrent. Mostly fines which are never paid. Too easy by a long way.

 

[Macquack]

Sam, what you don't get is that the impact speeds of these type of accidents are getting faster all the time.

If you think "speed" is irrelevant, you must come from a different planet than me.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Add to that it helps to have training to handle situations when things go bad (but there is NO GUARANTEE that you will not panic in a real situation), remember you are trained at road speed not 140kph.

Mate have you even read my posts? My whole point is to have an advanced course ON A CIRCUIT where you DO those speeds and get a feel for what its like, what happens etc Put them in out of control situations on the safety of a circuit so they get a feel for what its like, know what to expect.

Dont argue about it - Speed Kills. For example, hit a pedestrian at 60km per hour or at 40kph the survival rate is increased enormously at 40kph.

Does this not depend entirely on the car?? What speed you hit them at is totally dependent on your skill level(reaction time) and your brakes(high performance), that as well as your tyres play a HUGE part in what speed you hit IF you hit them. You need to find out the facts mate instead of being rammed by speed kills from TV and newspapers etc.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Sam, what you don't get is that the impact speeds of these type of accidents are getting faster all the time.

If you think "speed" is irrelevant, you must come from a different planet than me.

Impact speeds are getting faster? Since when? As I said, most of these crashes are all around the same speed area.

Your not getting the point. When you are intoxicated, with a car load of mates, feeling confident as ever, speed was NOT the killer.

Speed, the way you mentioned is irrelevant yes, "If the car was doing 60km/h", that means nothing, like if I had a gun a shot someone, but if I didn't have bullets in it, they wouldn't have died. Doesn't mean anything. They were doing 140km/h, someone will again, and it will happen AGAIN. NOT because of speed but because of skill and the car, and ofcourse intoxication.

 

[Macquack]

You need to find out the facts mate instead of being rammed by speed kills from TV and newspapers etc.

I think we have a budding V8 supercar driver on our hands here at ASF. His name is ThingyMajiggy, look out for him at Bathurst and also your local school pedestrian crossings.

 

[Boggo]

Impact speeds are getting faster? Since when? As I said, most of these crashes are all around the same speed area.

Your not getting the point. When you are intoxicated, with a car load of mates, feeling confident as ever, speed was NOT the killer.

Speed, the way you mentioned is irrelevant yes, "If the car was doing 60km/h", that means nothing, like if I had a gun a shot someone, but if I didn't have bullets in it, they wouldn't have died. Doesn't mean anything. They were doing 140km/h, someone will again, and it will happen AGAIN. NOT because of speed but because of skill and the car, and of course intoxication.

What a crock, if you were driving home with your family in the car are you saying that you would feel just as safe if a car load of drunken punks were coming towards you at 140kmh as you would be if they were doing 60 kmh.

That's the attitude that allows these little arseholes to endanger the public in the first place.
Thank god that it was a tree before some innocent family as it wasn't a matter of if but when it they were going to hit something/someone.

PS: Sam, you are correct, it's not the speed that kills. It's the sudden stop.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

I think we have a budding V8 supercar driver on our hands here at ASF. His name is ThingyMajiggy, look out for him at Bathurst and also your local school pedestrian crossings.

Righto mate. Dunno what that was for. I'm going from my own experience and how its helped me.

What a crock, if you were driving home with your family in the car are you saying that you would feel just as safe if a car load of drunken punks were coming towards you at 140kmh as you would be if they were doing 60 kmh.

Where the hell did you get this idea?! No **** you would feel scared with DRUNKEN PUNKS hurtling towards you at 140km/h, did I say you wouldn't? Hence why I said the DRUNKEN bit is the problem, not the speed, in case you hadn't noticed, people do stupid **** when they are drunk, and are alot more sensible when they aren't.

Listen, if its possible for you lot, I'm NOT promoting speed or drunken punks, all I'm saying is, that speed shouldn't be blamed immediately in 100% of the cases, its just stupid when you have drunk drivers and passengers, a car that can't handle it, along with someone with skills that aren't up to it(even more so when drunk), yet it comes down to speed.

Slam down on drink driving and teach people how to drive.