Overseas Students - I am staggered

[Mr J]

Australia's education system is doing the country reasonably proud

It's also doing the world some good, if the education is of a reasonable standard. There are worse things to be than a regional centre of education.

 

[suhm]

How much of the reasoning here fact and how much is presumtion?

Four Corners earlier this year had a story on it. Very interesting. It pointed out how this is a major part of the economy. There is probably a little bit of ego in it too. As a leader I would love the idea that international students want to come to my country to be educated. That can then lead to boasting about how the top level education is quality.

560,000 and Hobart? That is the total population of Tasmania.

Someone, somewhere needs to pay.

To turn the debate around a little - why are medical degrees so limited in number? Seems we can pump out lawyers and accountants but put a cap on doctors so we need to bring in foreign doctors. Then we have the various health departments around the country competing with each other for what is available. This can drive up pay for doctors and adds a burden to the health costs.

Perhaps the university system/degrees could be reviewed to see what is really needed.

They more than doubled the number of spots for medical degrees, the government is pumping us out like lawyers now. Deakin recently took over geelong hospital in melbourne, I think bond university is taking st vincent's private. The huge ramp up in such a short time is causing a lot of problems as there aren't enough people to train junior doctors.

Overseas students are in my mind the best form of skilled migration. Your getting an intelligent, trained professional who has paid for their own training and who is already integrated into australian society.

I was paying 6k a year deferred into HECS for my degree which I will only end up paying off in about 6-7years. My post grad overseas student classmates are paying 56k a year + living expenditure, doesn't take a genius to figure out which is the cheaper alternative for Australia.

 

[jono1887]

To turn the debate around a little - why are medical degrees so limited in number? Seems we can pump out lawyers and accountants but put a cap on doctors so we need to bring in foreign doctors. Then we have the various health departments around the country competing with each other for what is available. This can drive up pay for doctors and adds a burden to the health costs.

Perhaps the university system/degrees could be reviewed to see what is really needed.

The number of med degrees is capped by the government. Its the only course where the govt has total control over the number of places that each university are allowed to have each year.

I don't think its the number of doctors that is the problem. The problem is that there are not enough med graduates that want to specialise into GP, and move into the areas of shortage. However, foreign doctors are more willing to work in these places where aussie graduates don't want to.

 

[Dowdy]

I am staggered that our education system, designed for educating young australians, is being turned into a degree factory to pump out degrees for foreigners in this country...

who voted for this?????

A massive 547000 overseas students (not a misprint) are currently in australia studying for degrees

And i thought that our unis were set up to educate young aussies...how naive of me!!!! As a recent graduate you only have to look at the consequences...crowded lecture theatres and tutes, fighting for access to computer pools and library resources etc etc...

china, singapore etc etc wouldn't be this stupid to sacrifice the education of the next generation for a quick buck to be made from foreign students

its high time that we start to get out priorities right....australian unis primary concern should be educating young aussies, NOT overseas students ...it seems that the pollies and uni establishment have got it the wrong way around

Maybe you should study economics then you'll probably understand why the government done this

 

[WinnieBlues]

Under which rock have you been living lately?

Education is our 3rd biggest export worth $15bn annually.

It's the largest growing of Australia's exports in monetary terms and probabbly the sole reason this country never officialy had 2 negative quaters of GDP in the last couple years.

If you dont already know Australia is part of Asia and if you walk out in the streets of Sydney, Melbourne Brisbane and Adelaide you'll see that there is a huge growth of international students.

These are the facts and also the future direction of this country so embrase with your arms wide open mate. and throw another shrimp on the barbie..crickey

yep.......so it seems we now have sold almost everything left to sell...we sell degrees, we practically sell passports now as well

if people haven't worked it out, education is practically linked with migration...ask any int student....so people are basically paying to become future citizens

would Japan allow this??? would korea????

No, they wouldn't be so stupid as to sell their own countries out

 

[nunthewiser]

yep.......so it seems we now have sold almost everything left to sell...we sell degrees, we practically sell passports now as well

if people haven't worked it out, education is practically linked with migration...ask any int student....so people are basically paying to become future citizens

would Japan allow this??? would korea????

No, they wouldn't be so stupid as to sell their own countries out

hence my post previously

not just education being sold to the highest bidder either

i agree on SOME of your points actually

 

[J Nighttrain]

The number of med degrees is capped by the government. Its the only course where the govt has total control over the number of places that each university are allowed to have each year.

I don't think its the number of doctors that is the problem. The problem is that there are not enough med graduates that want to specialise into GP, and move into the areas of shortage. However, foreign doctors are more willing to work in these places where aussie graduates don't want to.

There are limitations on how many places are available for the gp training college as well. there are plenty of graduates that do not make the intake for gp training. It is now classed as a specialty training college like any other specialty. The cost of a medical degree is significantly higher than your average degree. I guess this is understandable.

 

[tasmart]

if people haven't worked it out, education is practically linked with migration...ask any int student....so people are basically paying to become future citizens

This is just part of the overall government run PONZI scheme! Spend money (lots of it) and aim to spend more - and pay for it by collecting taxes from an increasing tax base - especially of young migrants!

But then Australia has been built on the backs and money of migrants so perhaps we shouldn't complain.........

 

[jono1887]

There are limitations on how many places are available for the gp training college as well. there are plenty of graduates that do not make the intake for gp training. It is now classed as a specialty training college like any other specialty. The cost of a medical degree is significantly higher than your average degree. I guess this is understandable.

I heard somewhere that there are 600 or so GP places a year and less than 500 get filled. I don't think its the requirements but more so the lack of interest in specialising into GP where there are other better opportunities.

 

[suhm]

Over 15 years they will have gone from about 900 to 3400 medical graduates a year when the full impact of the medical student tsunami hits internship positions in 2012.

Its just over 2000 at the moment and tasmania already graduates more students than they have intern spots and band 2 people have trouble getting intern spots in queensland so all the international students there have to try their luck interstate after paying their exorbitant fees.

The number of GP training places will increase to 850 by 2011 from 600 and I was told they have been oversubscribed as numbers have been capped since 2004. Most of the medical and surgical specialties are usually more competitive there are some exceptions but you still have to pass your FRACP exams or get a SET position for that and there are far fewer positions than for GP.

You do the math, unless they do a UK and boot out all the overseas trained doctors, job security might not be a given in the future or you may end being conscripted like the bonded students and the overseas trained doctors to work in the bush.

What the government wants to do is churn out more rural GPs, which is what Australia needs, but that's not really what most students want.

 

[Macquack]

A question for the students (or anyone).

If foreign students contribute $15 billion annually and local students have to pay as well (HECS), does it cost the taxpayers anything to run Australian universities?

If the answer is, it still costs the taxpayer, then does that not mean we are effectively subsidising foreign students?

 

[lazyfish]

A question for the students (or anyone).

If foreign students contribute $15 billion annually and local students have to pay as well (HECS), does it cost the taxpayers anything to run Australian universities?

If the answer is, it still costs the taxpayer, then does that not mean we are effectively subsidising foreign students?

An aussie student pays about $500 per unit (starting next semester), and an international student pays well over $2000.

 

[skyQuake]

A question for the students (or anyone).

If foreign students contribute $15 billion annually and local students have to pay as well (HECS), does it cost the taxpayers anything to run Australian universities?

If the answer is, it still costs the taxpayer, then does that not mean we are effectively subsidising foreign students?

More like they are subsidising the aussie students if anything.
Truth probably comes closer to 'lining the uni's pockets'

 

[nunthewiser]

do these overseas students recieve austudy or rent assistance or any other taxpayer funded gifts ?

 

[skc]

do these overseas students recieve austudy or rent assistance or any other taxpayer funded gifts ?

Our government is silly but not that stupid! (I hope)

 

[nunthewiser]

Our government is silly but not that stupid! (I hope)

it would not surprise me actuallyif they did

 

[lazyfish]

do these overseas students recieve austudy or rent assistance or any other taxpayer funded gifts ?

I don't think you are eligible for anything really unless you are a permanent resident or citizen.

 

[nunthewiser]

do these overseas students recieve austudy or rent assistance or any other taxpayer funded gifts ?

no one knows ?

or do they know and not willing to answer because of the dent it puts in the argument that overseas students studying here instead of in there own country is not such a great idea economically after all ?

 

[nunthewiser]

I don't think you are eligible for anything really unless you are a permanent resident or citizen.

"think " isnt what im after

after all its not like a normal holiday visa etc etc .these students are here years, so maybe they are entitled on a certain visa they are issued to stay here for a prolonged length of time ......

would be intresting to know the facts

 

[drsmith]

An aussie student pays about $500 per unit (starting next semester), and an international student pays well over $2000.

How many units is there to a basic degree these days ?

At Flinders Uni in the mid-late 80's, 36 units constituted a year's undergraduate study and 108 units a degree.