Vestigial Organs evolution myth

[ktrianta]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

This is just a cut and paste from a creationist website.

http://www.drdino.com/read-article.php?id=9

You keep complaining that people bring religion into this thread but then you go and cut and paste from a religious/creationist website. Why don't you read the statement of faith on the website: http://www.drdino.com/statement-of-faith.php

Also, using the phrase "Some more random thoughts" makes it appear as though they're your thoughts when they're not. They're plagarised from a discredited website run by a convicted criminal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_H..._and_renouncing_citizenship_.281996_-_2006.29

Why don't you try debating with your own words instead of cutting and pasting rubbish from creationist websites?

Easier than rehashing in my own words. The issues are still the same and it is not srtaying on to religion so I was happy to use this. Others were too overt so did not past copy or link.

 

[ktrianta]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

The story itself is interesting. I wonder what else we will discover. I'm disappointed that the local newspaper didn't run the story. I wonder how many teachers will continue to teach the myth.

This thread has been an interesting lesson in communication.

That was my whole point at the start of the thread, how what we were taught in school as evidence for evoltion is now discredited.

 

[trainspotter]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

Ok Ktrianta I admit that the powder was wet when the firecracker went off. You were referring to the "article" from the discredited Scadding you had cut and pasted into your reply and not the title of the thread. Confusing isn't it? Especially when the point you continue to labor on is so far out of date it reeks of mould and mildew. If only life on earth were that simple to explain from the Good Book. Unfortunately it is not.

Many traits that appear to be simple adaptations are in fact exaptations: structures originally adapted for one function, but which coincidentally became somewhat useful for some other function in the process. One example is the African lizard Holaspis guentheri, which developed an extremely flat head for hiding in crevices, as can be seen by looking at its near relatives. However, in this species, the head has become so flattened that it assists in gliding from tree to tree””an exaptation. Another is the recruitment of enzymes from glycolysis and xenobiotic metabolism to serve as structural proteins called crystallins within the lenses of organisms' eyes.

As adaptation occurs through the gradual modification of existing structures, structures with similar internal organization may have very different functions in related organisms. This is the result of a single ancestral structure being adapted to function in different ways. The bones within bat wings, for example, are structurally similar to both human hands and seal flippers, due to the common descent of these structures from an ancestor that also had five digits at the end of each forelimb. Other idiosyncratic anatomical features, such as bones in the wrist of the panda being formed into a false "thumb," indicate that an organism's evolutionary lineage can limit what adaptations are possible.

I also know of some fish that have similar bone structures in their pectoral fins that assist them to "walk" across the seabed. Can you imagine that Ktrianta a fish with a thumb? Now you know where "fish fingers" come from.

 

[stocksontheblock]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

Sorry boys, I am talking about the title of the article. Not the thread. Please read what is written.!!!

Some more random thoughts:

Vestigial features are those parts of an organism, which are thought to be useless or no longer needed. The human tailbone is commonly referred to be such a feature. Vestigial features are taught to be leftover from an organism’s ancestors as it has evolved to a new way of life. The idea of vestigial features has been used as evidence for evolution since 1859 when Darwin first proposed that such features were evidence of descent of one organism from a completely different one. The logical consequence of this alleged transformation is that the "new" creatures will be left with some features, which are no longer needed in its new environmental niche.

Belief in evolution demands that we believe that each type of animal on earth is a result of descent from some previous life form. If this were the case, almost every creature should have many leftover features, which are no longer needed. Yet the more we learn about biology, the more we discover that every part of an organism serves some useful function. For example, the appendix is often said to be a useless leftover part of the human body. We know that the appendix serves as a type of lymphatic tissue in the first few months of life to fight disease. It is no more a useless feature than one of your lungs is useless just because you can survive with only one lung.

The acceptance of the idea that some parts of the human body are useless leftovers has had very tragic consequences. Based on the misguided concept that the human colon was a vestige of the past, Sir William Land and dozens of other surgeons stripped the colons from thousands of patients in order to "cure" a variety of symptoms. Many died. As late as the 1960's many people had their tonsils removed. This practice was again fueled by the mistaken belief that the tonsils were a useless leftover feature from our past. It is now known that they serve as an important disease fighting function and should not be removed.

There are true vestigial features as the blind eyes of cave salamanders. Blind salamanders have non-functional eyes because they live their entire lives in total darkness. At sometime in the past, normal salamanders found a niche in dark caves and apparently only those who mutated to blindness had a need to stay in the total darkness where they could compete for existence without blindness being a disadvantage. However, these salamanders are still salamanders, a mutation to blindness is hardly an upward improvement in complexity, and no new information has been added to the DNA of the salamander.

As to the question of the human tailbone, anatomists tell us that the tailbone serves a very important function in the human physiology. The coccyx (tailbone) is the point of insertion of several muscles and ligaments including the one which allows man to walk completely upright. Without a tailbone, people could not walk in a completely upright manner, dance a ballet, perform gymnastics, or stroll down the street with their arm around their spouse. Hardly a useless, leftover, vestigial feature! The human body is designed for maximum versatility. It is far more versatile than the body of any other creature. What other animal can perform the range of movement required for activities as diverse as ice-skating, pearl diving, skiing, and gymnastics. This range of movement would be impossible without the tailbone.

I love this thread as its given me a chance to rack up the message numbers next to my name ... its all a competition, ha!!! Seriously…

Couple of points:

1. Random thoughts: whose? Can you cite where this came from? I'll be honest, I am suggesting this has been lifted, and so its not your own thought(s), however much you might believe it.

Why?

a. This is a complete structure of a thought, not random at all.
b. The detail is based on 'findings' and hence has apparent scientific backing, so there must be some research here.
c. Compared to your other 'random' thoughts this is head and shoulders above the 'ranting’s' you have made previously.

2. Why have you still not addressed why religion should be considered separate from creationism.

3. I, and I guess I can speak for the other ‘boys’, we know the article and your thread title are different. We are making the point that if you wanted to be taken seriously, too late for that now, you would not have put the title in as you had for this thread. You did because you jumped on the first silly sentence from this ‘mythical’ article and saw the word myth, and equated it with the title. Whoops, don’t you look silly now?

There are lots of spelling and grammatical errors in what you have written, maybe a red-herring to make us think it is your own work. This aside, some of these errors are important in understanding the context, so, can you please let me know if you mean … “Vestigial features are taught to be leftover from an organism’s ancestors as it has evolved to a new way of life.” Do you mean taught? Or thought? This is pretty important.

MMM ... think I see a corner, and hear the faint noises of a reversing car! Beeeeep ... beeeep ... beeep ... BEEP

Ohhh and as that funny man TS has pointed out more than a few times, its nice to see vestigial spelt right – for now.

 

[stocksontheblock]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

That was my whole point at the start of the thread, how what we were taught in school as evidence for evoltion is now discredited.

How the **** do you come up with this????????????????????????

So far the only amount of discredited information has been against your rantings.

Still waiting for the silver bullet!

 

[ktrianta]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

Ok Ktrianta I admit that the powder was wet when the firecracker went off. You were referring to the "article" from the discredited Scadding you had cut and pasted into your reply and not the title of the thread. .

TS,

Sorry to have to correct you again, the article i referred to was the one shown in the first post on this thread. The quote from Scadding was alater post.

has any one actually read the original article????

 

[darkside]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

So you can't read either!!!

Clearly not,"just some more random thoughts" that i may as well copy paste, off discredited websites and pretend they are my own ideas.

Oh no thats not me, we all know who that is.

 

[trainspotter]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

That was my whole point at the start of the thread, how what we were taught in school as evidence for evoltion is now discredited.

DISCREDITED??? By whom??? Some whackjob calling himself a "scientist" in some dodgy magazine with a reader audience of 11 people? Or from the Creationists websites that you dribble up on the walls of ASF and call it meaningful dialogue? Whale Oil Beef Hooked. I am more than happy for you to believe in some bearded entity with the power of the universe in his right hand but for you to mask this diatribe that you insist is a "myth" somehow has got me cerebrally challenged to say the least. It is your "opinion" that it has been discredited but it is my "opinion" that what is being taught in schools is just fine with me. You want God? Go to Church. You want knowledge? Go to school.

Why not just start a thread and call it "Science VS God" ... this way we ALL know that there is no hidden agenda and the personal integrity and name calling tactics are surplus to requirements to have a meaningful discussion.

Has God got a belly button? If he has who made Him? Afterall we are made in His image are we not? So why do we have belly buttons then? Not bringing religion into it by the way! Could it be an Evolutionary thing? LMFAO !

 

[darkside]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

How the **** do you come up with this????????????????????????

So far the only amount of discredited information has been against your rantings.

Still waiting for the silver bullet!

I see "stocks" gets it, go champion.

 

[stocksontheblock]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

This is just a cut and paste from a creationist website.

http://www.drdino.com/read-article.php?id=9

You keep complaining that people bring religion into this thread but then you go and cut and paste from a religious/creationist website. Why don't you read the statement of faith on the website: http://www.drdino.com/statement-of-faith.php

Also, using the phrase "Some more random thoughts" makes it appear as though they're your thoughts when they're not. They're plagarised from a discredited website run by a convicted criminal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_H..._and_renouncing_citizenship_.281996_-_2006.29

Why don't you try debating with your own words instead of cutting and pasting rubbish from creationist websites?

Thank you stockGURU, I knew this wasnt her work, nice to see I was right.

MMM ... think ktrianta could get into trouble for that? Yet, I wont tell on her, I want her to stay with us and hang herself a little more.

What more fun could I have on a Friday afternoon!

 

[ktrianta]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

I love this thread as its given me a chance to rack up the message numbers next to my name ... its all a competition, ha!!! Seriously…

Couple of points:

1. Random thoughts: whose? Can you cite where this came from? I'll be honest, I am suggesting this has been lifted, and so its not your own thought(s), however much you might believe it.

Why?

a. This is a complete structure of a thought, not random at all.
b. The detail is based on 'findings' and hence has apparent scientific backing, so there must be some research here.
c. Compared to your other 'random' thoughts this is head and shoulders above the 'ranting’s' you have made previously.

2. Why have you still not addressed why religion should be considered separate from creationism.

3. I, and I guess I can speak for the other ‘boys’, we know the article and your thread title are different. We are making the point that if you wanted to be taken seriously, too late for that now, you would not have put the title in as you had for this thread. You did because you jumped on the first silly sentence from this ‘mythical’ article and saw the word myth, and equated it with the title. Whoops, don’t you look silly now?

There are lots of spelling and grammatical errors in what you have written, maybe a red-herring to make us think it is your own work. This aside, some of these errors are important in understanding the context, so, can you please let me know if you mean … “Vestigial features are taught to be leftover from an organism’s ancestors as it has evolved to a new way of life.” Do you mean taught? Or thought? This is pretty important.

MMM ... think I see a corner, and hear the faint noises of a reversing car! Beeeeep ... beeeep ... beeep ... BEEP

Ohhh and as that funny man TS has pointed out more than a few times, its nice to see vestigial spelt right – for now.

I'm racking up my numbers too.

This was all done whilst on a teleconference so not bad for multi skilling. Some of us still are trying to do some work you know. Yes I did get the contents, but it covered the issues that were relevant without referring to religion so I was happy to use it.

Why do i need to address why religion should be seperate from creationism? That has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[stocksontheblock]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

Has God got a belly button? If he has who made Him? Afterall we are made in His image are we not? So why do we have belly buttons then? Not bringing religion into it by the way! Could it be an Evolutionary thing? LMFAO !

I've said it before and I'll say it again you are one funny poster!!!

One day I will have to buy you a drink!

Ohhh, as for the rest of what you wrote, ABSOLUTELY AGREE.

 

[stocksontheblock]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

I'm racking up my numbers too.

This was all done whilst on a teleconference so not bad for multi skilling. Some of us still are trying to do some work you know. Yes I did get the contents, but it covered the issues that were relevant without referring to religion so I was happy to use it.

Why do i need to address why religion should be seperate from creationism? That has nothing to do with this thread.

Ok, now I just can’t hold back anymore ... not only are you some simpleton from the hills who thinks that the tooth-fairy is real, yet you are an out and out liar. 'knock' me sideways, I had the feeling that you would try to claim the work as your own, if no one else found the source, and yet even after stockGURU showed you to be a fraud, a thief, a liar, and christ knows what else, you still try and pass this off as your own. Yes, I used christ, yet I don’t believe and nor as you would have noticed did I give it the respect it should have with a capital letter.

Multi-skilling what? sucking your thumb with your other one firmly 'in your ear'. Or are you suggesting you have such great talents over the rest of us by talking on the phone to your mates about what cow-boy boots to wear to the pub tonight and copying from a sad little website is a challenge?

My god, I really didn’t think people could be this stupid, yet its dam obvious they are!

 

[trainspotter]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

TS,

Sorry to have to correct you again, the article i referred to was the one shown in the first post on this thread. The quote from Scadding was alater post.

has any one actually read the original article????

No need to be sorry Ktrianta. This topic started so long ago I have forgotten as to whom quoted whom and the underlying nuances of the cut and paste brigade is becoming bothersome. It's a bit like this:- "Thank you for sending me a copy of your book; I'll waste no time reading it" in my world.

 

[Joe Blow]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

Okay, that's enough with the language. It's not necessary.

Please, debate all you like - I'm not taking sides here - but lets keep it clean.

Thanks!

 

[trainspotter]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

I'm racking up my numbers too.

This was all done whilst on a teleconference so not bad for multi skilling. Some of us still are trying to do some work you know. Yes I did get the contents, but it covered the issues that were relevant without referring to religion so I was happy to use it.

Why do i need to address why religion should be seperate from creationism? That has nothing to do with this thread.

Must have been a great teleconference ... you servile factotum you !

 

[stocksontheblock]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

Sorry Joe, I have edited the post to reflect a more clean post.

I will try to be good.

 

[ktrianta]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

Since you guys are so adament that you want to bring religion into it, then here are a few links on the topic. Blow your fuses - hope that some might find these useful:

http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/embryology_02.html

http://creation.com/do-any-vestigial-organs-exist-in-humans

http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/..._ANOTHER_BLOW_TO_THE_MYTH_OF_VESTIGIAL_ORGANS

 

[darkside]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

Since you guys are so adament that you want to bring religion into it, then here are a few links on the topic. Blow your fuses - hope that some might find these useful:

http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/embryology_02.html

http://creation.com/do-any-vestigial-organs-exist-in-humans

http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/..._ANOTHER_BLOW_TO_THE_MYTH_OF_VESTIGIAL_ORGANS

Why bother pasting the links, how about just "copy & paste the articles and claim it as your own work , it has'nt stopped you before.

 

[stocksontheblock]

Re: Vistigial Organs evolution myth

Since you guys are so adament that you want to bring religion into it, then here are a few links on the topic. Blow your fuses - hope that some might find these useful:

http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/embryology_02.html

http://creation.com/do-any-vestigial-organs-exist-in-humans

http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/..._ANOTHER_BLOW_TO_THE_MYTH_OF_VESTIGIAL_ORGANS

Well said Darkside!!!

I would also ask what is the point of these? You raise religion, and have used it where it suited your purprose, yet you also say "why must you ferals (I added that) bring religion into creationsim"

Well we have all asked you a 100 times to tell us HOW creationsim is not religion. It is one in the same. So how can you NOT refer to religion.

Explain it, in your own words, and with your own thoughts for a start.

I have taken the 30 secs - which I will never get back I have to say - and what I notice as a theme in these links, is: "we will analyze this scientific crisis faced by the theory of evolution"

What crisis?
When did it become a crisis?
Why is it a crisis?
Who say's it is a crisis? (apart from the apparent 'sane' reference you have provided) I love the photocopy saying he is.