$2m Home Tax - What's next?

[drsmith]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

There are better ways to maintain the integrity of the tax base such as reducing the scope for income deductions.

 

[wayneL]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

There are better ways to maintain the integrity of the tax base such as reducing the scope for income deductions.

Yes

And cut out the stinking middle class welfare.

 

[trainspotter]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

Your example is extremely rare.

Mostly folk with houses worth more than $10 mill have gained them through either luck, inheritance or crime.

I am all in favour of these big houses being taxed to buggery.

gg

It was enough to cause the WA state Govt to backdown on their agenda?

To tax the people for owning a property because it is their principle place of residence and the Valuer General claims it to be worth 2 million is a far flung cry of Trotsky at best. If like your post eludes to, 10 million is a cut off point and your case point can be proven on the valid subjective argument of illegality then it should be absorbed into the state coffers. No question.

But to make claim of a tax due to hard work and benefitting form the spoils of your inherited fortune would open a Pandora's box of tax evasion that is currently unheard of. Spread the wealth for all and sundry has been tried before and has proven itself to be the pariah of the Western world we currently live in. Where do we stop? I sold my 2 million dollar house and no one wanted it (because of the tax) so it is now depreciated to how much? Why stop at 2 million? Why not make everybody with a 500k house a contributor to the tax system? No wait ......... we already do that .... don't we?

 

[Bill M]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

I am now 82 and living on the pension and my house is valued at over 2 million and I am on the pension.

If I was in this situation I would sell the house buy another newer one for 400k and put $1.6 Million in the bank at 4% and live like a friggin King!

 

[trainspotter]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

Bill M is a God amongst men. This is exactly what will happen if they decide to tax the "wealthy" property owners. Driving down the property market in the upper end to flatline and opresss the masses by a tax scale in owner occupied property is a folly that has the hallmark stamp of "policy on the run" IMO.

OK ... let's introduce this proposed scheme ... I just make the threshold of the tax system. I then decide to let the house go into a "state of disrepair" and lose a further 10% on my valuation. So I started with 2 million of single house property and the VG puts it in writing expressing his opinion. I let the lawn grow and place a few car bodies out the front yard to detract from the streetscape. Is it worth 2 million now? Who decides or is it a broad brush stroke of the pen outlining "suburbs"?? Methinks the devil will be in the detail on the policy on this one.

 

[So_Cynical]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

If I was in this situation I would sell the house buy another newer one for 400k and put $1.6 Million in the bank at 4% and live like a friggin King!

Yep 1 mill for a 5 bedroom place on the beach, down the coast a bit and a mill in the bank...life's tough hey.

 

[Uncle Barry]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

Your example is extremely rare.

Mostly folk with houses worth more than $10 mill have gained them through either luck, inheritance or crime.

I am all in favour of these big houses being taxed to buggery.

gg

GG, your living in the bush or just out of touch with the REAL WORLD or just being dumb silly !
You are WRONG !

 

[drsmith]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

Yes

And cut out the stinking middle class welfare.

To me the biggest issue there are the means tests resulting in anomalous marginal tax rates where the benefits are progressively withdrawn.

 

[trainspotter]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

Yep 1 mill for a 5 bedroom place on the beach, down the coast a bit and a mill in the bank...life's tough hey.

So now you are starting to see my point. Why buy a property for 2 million if you are going to be taxed to the eyeballs on it? Who is going to buy it? Who do you sell it to? Let's start thinking about this logically. The Govt decides to bring this furphy tax into play. LOTS of houses valued at 2 million go on the market. None sell. Market drops.

What do you think this is going to do to the rest of the market? Make it stronger? No one wants to upgrade for fear they will go above the magic number and be taxed. Is it starting to sink in now?

A million in the bank . Pfffffffffftttt .. how long do you think that will last in todays climate? Now we are assuming YOU OWN THE PROPERTY OUTRIGHT ... correct ? So the funds from the sale as your principle place of residence are all yours to spend. Congratulations, you have your 1 million dollar house on the beach and the money is in the bank. How long before your 1 million dollar house on the beach is valued at the magical number?

Ohhhhhhhhhhh dear ........ I can see the lights coming on now.

WAKE UP AUSTRALIA .... WAKE UP ... we must not let this happen under any circumstances. EVER.

 

[Glen48]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

The trouble is we don't have a fair tax system so voters go looking for deductions such as Storm or TimberCorp and assume buying a house is a good way to save and fight inflation when houses only just keep up with inflation and grow by about 3% PA. CGT is a good way to stop people wasting their money but It will never happen we are to far entrenched to change any thing and only when it all collapses will they Xspurts look at some thing different.

 

[gooner]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

I am now 82 and living on the pension and my house is valued at over 2 million and I am on the pension.

Then you are a bludger. If you are that rich, why should you get a pension. If you have $2m shares you get zip, so why should you get a full pension if you own a $2m house. Borrow against, sell and trade down. Whatever. Battlers should not subsidise rich retirees.

 

[Bill M]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

I ask you one simple question trainspotter. Do you think there should be any high price where the taxes cuts in? For example do you think that it is fair for someone to buy a $10 million house at age 64 just so that person can get the full government pension at age 65 and pay no taxes? Where do we draw the line?

 

[gooner]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

To me the biggest issue there are the means tests resulting in anomalous marginal tax rates where the benefits are progressively withdrawn.

True but if you get rid of family tax benefit (I assume this is what we are talking about), then a lot of families will be in poverty.

In my own case, my family income to support 5 people would go from $750 to $400 a week. And trainspotter wants to subsidies rich retirees in multi million dollar homes - ROFLMAO

Personally, I would rather face higher marginal tax rates when I get a job than not have the money now.

 

[trainspotter]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

Then you are a bludger. If you are that rich, why should you get a pension. If you have $2m shares you get zip, so why should you get a full pension if you own a $2m house. Borrow against, sell and trade down. Whatever. Battlers should not subsidise rich retirees.

LOLOL Gooner .. go and get a job and work like the rest of us had to. If you read the post correctly you would see that it is an EXAMPLE. It has happened in WA already. The voter backlash made the state Govt pull it's horns in. Oh deary, deary me. Full pension my @rse .. it is means tested. They still receive a pension but considerably less than the FULL pension. LMFAOOOOOO.

Do you believe that rich is a 2 million dollar house that a man worked 55 years for and paid EVERY cent he had to in tax and brought up 4 kids and never hand a handout in his life? OMFG .... get in the real world. I read somewhere(20% return thread when TH was asking you some q's) that you are a bank trained think tank accountant or similar. Should not be hard for you to get a job then? Or does $700 a week sit comfortably in your hand from the Govt? I did not advocate subsidies for these people who find themselves in this position. This was YOUR words ... not mine. I merely explained that the STAUS QUO is adequate. No need to tax them at all.

Bill M ... no questions dude. THERE SHOULD BE NO TAX ON YOUR PRINCIPLE PLACE OF RESIDENCE .... EVER. Does not matter about the dollar value.

 

[drsmith]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

True but if you get rid of family tax benefit (I assume this is what we are talking about), then a lot of families will be in poverty.

I'm not saying we should get rid of it but rather reconstruct it as part of the tax system. This could be done as simply as offering non-means tested tax rebates for dependants. Where such rebates results in a negative tax liability (credit) this would simply be refunded to the household. Simplifying the tax/welfare system in this way would result in obvious winners and losers which makes it politically unpalatable. The tax winfall of the commodities boom would have helped here but that opportunity came and went.

 

[Knobby22]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

Relax

Nothing will happen.

No government would dare do anything to the Australian sacred cow
- household property.

 

[Bill M]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

Bill M ... no questions dude. THERE SHOULD BE NO TAX ON YOUR PRINCIPLE PLACE OF RESIDENCE .... EVER. Does not matter about the dollar value.

I believe this is open to tax evasion then. The thing is channelling $10 million into a property and then getting the pension is fundamentally wrong. Pensions were never meant for that, I don't think that my taxes should go to multi millionaires, sorry I disagree.

By the way, I am a self funded retiree and I expect nothing from the Government, I live off my own means.

 

[trainspotter]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

I believe this is open to tax evasion then. The thing is channelling $10 million into a property and then getting the pension is fundamentally wrong. Pensions were never meant for that, I don't think that my taxes should go to multi millionaires, sorry I disagree.

By the way, I am a self funded retiree and I expect nothing from the Government, I live off my own means.

Ummmmm ... being a self funded retiree then you would fully well know that IT IS MEANS TESTED. If you have enough to purchase a 10 million $ property it is UNLIKELY you will get the pension. (where did this figure come from by the way?) The sum of 2 million was bandied around by the boffins who want more tax.

The system that we have in place for the principle place of residence is ADEQUATE. No need to threshold tax it because you can afford to live in a house that is larger than the rest. More than likely the b@stard who can afford this kind of home has been paying taxes through the nose for bloody years. I say he deserves the damn thing. JEEEEEEEEEZUZ !!

 

[wayneL]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

I ask you one simple question trainspotter. Do you think there should be any high price where the taxes cuts in? For example do you think that it is fair for someone to buy a $10 million house at age 64 just so that person can get the full government pension at age 65 and pay no taxes? Where do we draw the line?

LOL

Sink 10 mil into a non income producing asset just so you can get the lousy state pension???

LOLOL

Too funny.

 

[gooner]

Re: $2m Home Tax - Whats next?

LOLOL Gooner .. go and get a job and work like the rest of us had to. If you read the post correctly you would see that it is an EXAMPLE. It has happened in WA already. The voter backlash made the state Govt pull it's horns in. Oh deary, deary me. Full pension my @rse .. it is means tested. They still receive a pension but considerably less than the FULL pension. LMFAOOOOOO.

Do you believe that rich is a 2 million dollar house that a man worked 55 years for and paid EVERY cent he had to in tax and brought up 4 kids and never hand a handout in his life? OMFG .... get in the real world. I read somewhere(20% return thread when TH was asking you some q's) that you are a bank trained think tank accountant or similar. Should not be hard for you to get a job then? Or does $700 a week sit comfortably in your hand from the Govt? I did not advocate subsidies for these people who find themselves in this position. This was YOUR words ... not mine. I merely explained that the STAUS QUO is adequate. No need to tax them at all.

Bill M ... no questions dude. THERE SHOULD BE NO TAX ON YOUR PRINCIPLE PLACE OF RESIDENCE .... EVER. Does not matter about the dollar value.

PPOR is excluded for the purposes of the pension means test. So if you do not have other assets, you can have a $10m house and still get a full pension. Fair? I don't think so. I do think PPOR should be included when assessing pension means tests to stop people sinking all their money in the house to get a pension.

And $350 is family tax benefit - this is means tested and paid to people who are on on low incomes with children, irrespective of working or not (kicked in on 1 July for new tax year). The other $400 is income from my savings (that I saved from working hard, never having a handout etc etc). I do not get any government pension. And hard to live on the total of $750 a week, so also spending my savings.

And funnily enough, no it is not easy to get a job. GFC has cut back severely bank recruitment which is where I have a comparative advantage in getting a job. I face discrimination due to my age. I have tried going for jobs at half the pay that I was on before and get knocked back as "overqualified" or "this role does not fit where you are in your career" (subtext, you are too old). That said, just missed out on a good role a few weeks ago and job market is picking up so hopefully get something soon. Then I will have to pay back all that family tax benefit.