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Dino to Bird evolution Myth

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spooly74 said:
Fait accompli eh.
Are you closing the thread now?? :rolleyes:
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Wow I did not realise that I had that much power. Just wait a minute while I leap this building with a single bound.:D

I am sure that if people what to contribute and add they will. Who knows we might even have a 100million year old photo of a flying dinosaur added to prove it.
 
Any one that has every bought fried chicken from the big fried chicken distributors could have told you immediately that the birds evolved from dinosaurs... or were still evolving when they were cooked.
 
The heart of the matter is, unless one has at least some specialist knowledge within this field, assessing the debate is nearly impossible. Ktrianta's latest link is an interview with Feduccia who seems to get hammered hard in spooly's prior link in both article and comments. He doesn't seem to be well-received and frankly, I can't tell if it's because he and the "birds aren't dinos" crowd are way off base and rightfully criticised, or if they are on track and being resisted by the dogmatic faithful to orthodoxy. :confused:

In my own area of private research, I know you need a wide ranging understanding of the background material from different quarters and need to grasp the technical concepts under debate. Without that background it's very easy to dismiss novel views simply because they buck established views and it's highly annoying to the mainstream researchers when fanciful speculation gets aired in the media as fact. But some novel views are correct and show that fundamental assumptions of orthodoxy in the field are flawed, and this does get political because careers are built on it, and people find it very hard to admit they're wrong when they have a large investment of time and thought in an area. The belief that all scientists are emotionally neutral researchers simply pursuing facts is deluded or naive.

In this thread, I have no idea which side is right, but on balance it maybe premature to form the belief that "birds are descended from theropods is wrong" and quite reasonable to hold the belief "birds are descended from theropods". :2twocents
 
MS+Tradesim said:
The heart of the matter is, unless one has at least some specialist knowledge within this field, assessing the debate is nearly impossible.........

The belief that all scientists are emotionally neutral researchers simply pursuing facts is deluded or naive.

[/I]. :2twocents
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Couple of very telling points in my view.

For us laymen who do we believe? It is possible that both views are wrong but it is certain that both views cannot be correct.

As such we need to be careful not to be too dogmatic on such issues.
 
spooly74 said:
Funny how the same names keep popping up in your research.
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Not sure what the relevance of this point is? Maybe these are the experts in the field challenging the commonly held belief.

Another interesting article as well.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/08/090804-pterosaurs-wings-fossil-hairs.html

Researchers says In general, the new find shows that pterosaur wings are "much more complex than we thought."

Just makes it harder to explain the transition from dinosaurs to birds one would think.
 
ktrianta said:
Not sure what the relevance of this point is? Maybe these are the experts in the field challenging the commonly held belief.
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Maybe they are idiots who don't have a clue?
If they had some falsifiable evidence, that would be a good start for discussion.

Researchers says In general, the new find shows that pterosaur wings are "much more complex than we thought."

Just makes it harder to explain the transition from dinosaurs to birds one would think.
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You came to this conclusion from that article. Willful ignorance must be bliss.
 
spooly74 said:
Maybe they are idiots who don't have a clue?
If they had some falsifiable evidence, that would be a good start for discussion.


You came to this conclusion from that article. Willful ignorance must be bliss.
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Spooly,

Just using logic and common sense. Nothing wrong with trying it once in a while!!!

"By literally shining new light on a Chinese pterosaur fossil, researchers have found that the membranes in the creature's wings contain a complex pattern of fibers not found in any living animal.

The membrane structure may have given some pterosaur species better control when they took to the skies, a new study says."

You can't take the simplistic approach of it looks like proto feathers hence the dino to bird evolution myth is proved. You have to explain how this complex pattern of fibres evolved.

Feathers (if they are indeed feathers and this is open to dispute) aren't wings. Now an expalination is needed for the complex fibres as well.

As i said just makes it harder to explain the transition from dinosaurs to birds one would think.

Looking more and more like a myth.
 
ktrianta said:
Spooly,

"By literally shining new light on a Chinese pterosaur fossil, researchers have found that the membranes in the creature's wings contain a complex pattern of fibers not found in any living animal.

The membrane structure may have given some pterosaur species better control when they took to the skies, a new study says."

You can't take the simplistic approach of it looks like proto feathers hence the dino to bird evolution myth is proved. You have to explain how this complex pattern of fibres evolved.

Feathers (if they are indeed feathers and this is open to dispute) aren't wings. Now an expalination is needed for the complex fibres as well.

As i said just makes it harder to explain the transition from dinosaurs to birds one would think.

Looking more and more like a myth.
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Pterosaurs are not dinosaurs :eek: :D
Just using logic and common sense. Nothing wrong with trying it once in a while!!!
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:p:
 
spooly74 said:
Pterosaurs are not dinosaurs :eek: :D

:p:
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Spooly,

Please show me where I said that?:confused:

Read this article if you wish.
http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/prehistoric-world/pterosaurs.html

"Pterosaurs were just the coolest things that were ever in the air," says Padian. "They were the first vertebrates to fly. They did it long before birds and bats. And it terms of size, they pushed the envelope as far as it could go for a flying animal."

So where do they fit in the dino to bird evolution myth? If they evolved flight, are they the first in the line of dinosaurs to bird evolution and then evolved into modern birds? If not from what did they evolve? (in the article, the author is suggesting they are cousins of the dinosaurs - but maybe he is just one of those dino to bird evolution deniers) :)

Or did dinosaurs just evolve into today's modern birds or was it pterosaurs that was the forerunner?

I am no expert in this field and whilst I have a degree and a post graduate degree in my field, it is fairly obvious that this area is one that belief is significant in determing which view one would adopt.

Whilst both sides may be wrong, they cannot both be right.
 
ktrianta said:
Spooly,

Please show me where I said that?:confused:

Read this article if you wish.
http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/prehistoric-world/pterosaurs.html

"Pterosaurs were just the coolest things that were ever in the air," says Padian. "They were the first vertebrates to fly. They did it long before birds and bats. And it terms of size, they pushed the envelope as far as it could go for a flying animal."

So where do they fit in the dino to bird evolution myth? If they evolved flight, are they the first in the line of dinosaurs to bird evolution and then evolved into modern birds? If not from what did they evolve? (in the article, the author is suggesting they are cousins of the dinosaurs - but maybe he is just one of those dino to bird evolution deniers) :)

Or did dinosaurs just evolve into today's modern birds or was it pterosaurs that was the forerunner?

I am no expert in this field and whilst I have a degree and a post graduate degree in my field, it is fairly obvious that this area is one that belief is significant in determing which view one would adopt.

Whilst both sides may be wrong, they cannot both be right.
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Dinosaurs evolved into birds. The evidence is overwhelming.
I won't be responding to your mind numbing nonsense anymore.
 
spooly74 said:
Dinosaurs evolved into birds. The evidence is overwhelming.
I won't be responding to your mind numbing nonsense anymore.
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DINOSAURS DID NOT EVOLVE INTO BIRDS. THE EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING.

See I can make that same argument too but even more forcefully by using capitals.

As I have said in another thread, if you can't question your beliefs, then they really aren't worth having.
 
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