Has Kevin Rudd misled parliament?

[orr]

I look forward to the AFP investigation, and the confirmation that Mahomad Haneef both sent, and received the contested emails and proof of this is stored on a sim card he subsequently lent to his wife's first cousin. I got it straight from Mick Kelty.

 

[kincella]

parliament is a bit different...all records must be archived and available for scrutiny if required ...all traces for security of them should be in place....
its a bit different to mobile phone records of some one outside of parliament, or not connected to government...
although with Kelty...he did say his hands were tied...
a bit like Grech...whose superior...tried to shut him up...and then did...
that is not how its supposed to operate...in fact his superior should not have been in the same room...
they are under oath and obliged to tell the truth

 

[Quincy]

Ping Pong

Rudd 'email' a distraction: Turnbull

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/828128/swan-dismisses-calls-for-his-resignation

16:31 AEST Sun Jun 21 2009

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is using an alleged email at the centre of the OzCar affair to distract the Australian public from the fact his treasurer misled parliament, Opposition Leader Malcolm Turnbull says.

"It was Mr Rudd's doing that Mr Grech was not allowed to talk and that is the question ... I ask Mr Rudd, is why did you shut down Godwin Grech in the Senate on Friday? What do you have to fear?" Mr Turnbull told reporters in Sydney.

"How can you have the gall, the arrogance to demand the opposition produce an email that it has never claimed to have?

"And yet when the official to whom the email was allegedly sent ... was asked questions about it, he was prevented from answering."

Asked if he would resign if the email claim was fake, Mr Turnbull said the email was simply being used as a tactic.

"You are all falling for Mr Rudd's trick," he said.

"What Mr Rudd is doing is seeking to use the matter of this email to distract the attention of the Australian people from the fact that his treasurer (Wayne Swan) had unquestionably misled parliament.

"There's no doubt about that."

Mr Turnbull said an auditor-general's investigation should be extended to include Mr Swan.

He said the opposition would pass on any information it had to the Australian Federal Police.

ping

 

[Gamblor]

I really fail to see the issue here. John grant didn't get any money, does it matter if they tried to help him? If misleading is the only argument there must be a hell of a lot of people that should have resigned over the years.

I could understand the media frenzy if this was actually defrauding the tax payer in someway. It just seems so petty and pathetic.

 

[matty2.0]

Well, somebody is lying ... who is it???

It's very possible that Turnball could be relying on faulty information by a lower level ranking official (e.g. like how Colin Powell relied on faulty information regarding "weapons of mass destruction" during the invasion of Iraq).

But I think this is quite low of Turnball, to be relying on a side issue to play politics to try and oust Rudd, rather than defeating Rudd on substantive matters that count - policy issues, how to deal with unemployment, economy, international/foreign relations etc ...

I think Turnball is just playing politics as he is so far behind on the opinion polls, http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25643489-421,00.html:

But a closer examination of the Newspoll showed Mr Rudd maintaining a commanding lead as preferred prime minister, with 57 per cent of respondents backing him compared with 25 per cent for Mr Turnbull.

If misleading is the only argument there must be a hell of a lot of people that should have resigned over the years.

... shouldn't ALL politicians resign then?? I'm sure Turnball and other prime ministers have BSed to the public before to try and win votes???

 

[MrBurns]

This isnt about money it's about principle, if Rudd or Swan knowingly mislead Parliament is's game over.

 

[matty2.0]

This isnt about money it's about principle, if Rudd or Swan knowingly mislead Parliament is's game over.

And likewise ... if Turnball is misleading parliament by using false emails, it's game over too.

 

[moXJO]

And likewise ... if Turnball is misleading parliament by using false emails, it's game over too.

And what if Labor leaked the fake Email, to put the libs on the spot and direct attention.

 

[Stan 101]

I really fail to see the issue here. John grant didn't get any money, does it matter if they tried to help him?

From my understanding, it's whether Swann and Co. lied about preferntial treatment to the car yard owner. Clarification on what the term "prefential treatment" actually is as defined in a political sense would be good to know.

It would also be good to know if any other car dealers were individually mentioned in correspondance. This might help to show some clarity on the matter. Swann may well have worked within the guidelines. Heaven forbid, what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

cheers,

 

[MrBurns]

And likewise ... if Turnball is misleading parliament by using false emails, it's game over too.

We've already seen the email in the newspapers, why doesn't someone ask THEM to produce it.

I dont really care how it happens but we have to get rid of Rudd, this may be the key, Turnbull has seen the email in the paper like everyone else asked for an explanation, Rudd has tried to turn it around onto Turnbull, he is a master of spin and massaging the truth, he's not worthy of the position.

 

[matty2.0]

Well somebody is lying!!

Can someone post me the link to the email? I haven't seen it yet ....

 

[Stan 101]

Thanks for the tip on news.com.au Cailliope.

Here is a little gem from them. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25668502-29277,00.html

If this news report pans out to be true, I wonder what it will do to Turnbull's credability and career?


cheers,

 

[Julia]

I really fail to see the issue here. John grant didn't get any money, does it matter if they tried to help him? If misleading is the only argument there must be a hell of a lot of people that should have resigned over the years.

I could understand the media frenzy if this was actually defrauding the tax payer in someway. It just seems so petty and pathetic.

The fact that John Grant did not receive any money is beside the point.
What is under debate is whether his request for money received special attention because he is a friend and neighbour of Mr Rudd.

If Mr Grant's request did receive special attention (which seems to be demonstrated by the chain of emails from and to Mr Swan), then that is indeed a potential abuse of taxpayer funds.

Agree with your comment about the number of people who would have misled parliament over the years.

And yes, the issue of itself does seem rather pathetic. But what is at stake is whether a member of parliament has lied to that parliament.

 

[Macquack]

Rudd....he's a terminal tosser and financial incompetent.

The King of spin is trying to turn it all back on Turnbull, Turnbull isn't the one who mislead Parliament and lied through his teeth ...........thats Rudds specialty.

I meet people regularly now who don't just dislike him they hate his smarmy smart **** guts and I can see their point.

I dont really care how it happens but we have to get rid of Rudd.
Rudd ..... he is a master of spin and massaging the truth, he's not worthy of the position.

The guttersnipes that respond to Rudd on their dislike, rather than evidence, tell the real story: It's just more of the same beat up.
.

I think Rederob is referring to you Burns.

Your unfounded attacks on Kevin Rudd are tiresome, boring and childish.

 

[trainspotter]

Well, well, well, a politician not exactly sticking to the facts as they happened !! Who would have thunk it ?? Mr Swan says the information he received on Mr Grant's case was part of general updates about the auto industry, and he is not resigning. Ummm ... did he admit later that he actually purchased a vehicle from Mr. Grant's dealership? BUT on June 4th in parliament he stated he had no knowledge of any contact from his office with the dealership. Gosh .... I can't remember if I bought that 2007 Kia Sorrento or not. It seems that the smoke and mirrors act by KRudd and his cronies is not being greedily swallowed by the general populace or the media for that matter.
On Saturday Mr Swan said it was routine for hundreds of pages of information to be forwarded to his home fax while he was in Brisbane and that it did not mean he was paying attention to the case.
Godwin Grech's evidence during the Senate inquiry suggests the Prime Minister misled Parliament, however without the email there is no evidence against Mr Rudd.

So for some reason Mr Grech has decided to change his story. For now, the Government will keep up the line that Mr Grech appeared confused at the inquiry. Glad we cleared that up !

 

[MrBurns]

I think Rederob is referring to you Burns.

Your unfounded attacks on Kevin Rudd are tiresome, boring and childish.

My attacks on Rudd are fully justified and just a sample of what the general public is thinking in increasing numbers, thanks for taking the time to bring them all together, an impressive list that sums him up perfectly.

I don't care what you think about my realistic assesments of Rudd, they cant be too boring if you take the time to pull them all together. Excellent work.

 

[MrBurns]

So for some reason Mr Grech has decided to change his story. For now, the Government will keep up the line that Mr Grech appeared confused at the inquiry. Glad we cleared that up !

There's no doubt My Grech has been leant on very hard by Hier Rudds supporters, I hope the Libs can dig up the festering sore and get the truth out.

Mr Grech appeared confused ???? LOL you must be joking, they wont get away with that BS

 

[trainspotter]

Me thinks News Limited claim that this missive was sent on February 19th:

"Hi Godwin, the PM has asked if the car dealer financing vehicle is available to assist a Queensland dealership, John Grant Motors, who seems to be having trouble getting finance. If you can follow up on this asap that would be very useful. Happy to discuss. A."

Guessing that "A" is for Andrew Thomas the treasury official who had sent emails to Godwin Grech.

Conclusion: We know that Wayne Swan has misled parliament. Senate inquiry has proven that paper trail (or is it email trail?) so therefore a card carrying journalist might have fabricated/concocted/just plain lied to sell a few more papers. Is that not his job?

 

[Macquack]

My attacks on Rudd are fully justified and just a sample of what the general public is thinking in increasing numbers, thanks for taking the time to bring them all together, an impressive list that sums him up perfectly.

I don't care what you think about my realistic assesments of Rudd, they cant be too boring if you take the time to pull them all together. Excellent work.

It was tedious work going through your foul mouthed posts.

You are so pre-occupied with denigrating Kevin Rudd, I do wonder if you are really a Liberal Party staffer.

One consolation, you must be running out of degrading, insulting, rude and hateful adjectives to describe our Prime Minister.

 

[rederob]

Mr Grech appeared confused ???? LOL you must be joking, they wont get away with that BS

ERIC ABETZ: Have you seen a document?

GODWIN GRECH: My recollection may well be totally false, faulty, but my recollection, and that's a big qualification, my recollection is that there was a short email from the PMO to me which very simply alerted me to the case of John Grant. But my, my, I don't have the email. We just can't find it.

I must agree with MrBurns. He didn't appear confused, he was confused. Turnbull won't get away with the BS he unleashed on the pretext he actually had some evidence.

I listened, live, to most of the parliamentary sessions that covered this matter. Swan's avoidance of some of the detail that has now emerged is about all that is in question. In context, the adept avoidance of Howard's team in when questioned about the Children Overboard affair makes this look like a namby pamby kindy hissy fit. Only Turnbull could have given this "life", even if it becomes the death of him.