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Trading in Domain Names?

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netfleet

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Is anyone involved? In Australia the trading of domains has only been permitted since June last year so it's a pretty new industry.

However things are gathering pace with tremendous ROI but hampered by a real lack of liquidity as there are so few players.

However just like bricks and mortar, this virtual real estate:

1) is in finite supply
2) can be rented (generally 'parked' with ads via Google)
3) developed
4) bought and sold

So would you investment experts consider domain trading a bonafide (albeit extremely niche) industry? I'd very much appreciate some thoughts from a trader's perspective.

I'm talking .AU of course - I don't think there can be any arguments that many people have made millions investing in .COM over the years.

Thanks very much

David
 
Yes that could be an example of a successful trade.

Personally I have registered around 2,500 .au domains over the last few years. These cost me a little over $30K p.a. in renewal fees. However they make more than twice that in advertising income. So it's a cash positive investment from that POV

Plus, they are on average steadily appreciating in value and I sell a handful every month. Every single business that wants a website needs a domain so as long as that number is increasing, so is demand. And supply is limited so I'd like to think values will increase.

Eg webdesign.net.au was registered a few years ago (costing $25 every 2 years) and sold a couple of weeks ago for $10,000.

Another example is cloudcomputing.com.au - we hand registered that about 4 years ago and put an informational site on it. Now cloud computing is big business and the likes of Dell & Sun have shown interest in buying it from us.

Some areas of domains are so limited in numbers that their value has a floor. Eg 2-letter com.au domains (such as ab.com.au or pq.com.au) They were available a few years ago to hand register but now will never sell for less than $1,000.

IMO it's an exciting speculative industry with an extremely low cost of entry. A few hundred dollars can register a dozen or so carefully picked domain names which may be worth thousands down the line.
 
And thus the ceaseless monetisation of our little corner of the Internet rolls on.... if only Robert Elz wasn't forced to hand over com.au to Melbourne IT in the mid '90s we might still have some integrity and an ability to stop phishing attacks on Australian financial institutions.

*sigh*

m.
 
netfleet, how do you get a value for your names, generic are more valuable for instance but what are they worth ? I mean you wouldn't give up a generic name for nothing, they're irreplaceable.
 
marklar said:
And thus the ceaseless monetisation of our little corner of the Internet rolls on.... if only Robert Elz wasn't forced to hand over com.au to Melbourne IT in the mid '90s we might still have some integrity and an ability to stop phishing attacks on Australian financial institutions.

*sigh*

m.
Click to expand...

You talk about integrity and you're on a share trading forum LOL how's the short selling going today ???
 
had a friend make a few bucks creating domain names

was a very creative young man tho and was quite a few years back

can be done but not my cup of tea
 
Are you just gambling on speculation that somebody may actually want the names you register in future? The hit/miss ratio must be pretty high.

I don't see why anybody should have to pay big dollars paid for simply a name, many of which are just common words? It isn't actually anything tangible where any constructive effort has been put into producing the item. You click a couple of boxes, and there is your domain name.

Those rubbish "nothing" placeholder sites which are simply advertising pages give me the irrits, I don't quite why they should be allowed to exist, they serve no purpose as any productive part of the internet..

I've had domain names I've let go in the past, only to go to the sharks who re-register them, simply to capture traffic from the former name and goodwill created from the website to stick stupid advertising banners on them.. I think that is pretty low to piggyback off what somebody else has helped establish as a name.
 
MrBurns said:
You talk about integrity and you're on a share trading forum LOL how's the short selling going today ???
Click to expand...

It's completely different. Domain names are based purely on TRUST, there is no effective regulation and very few checks & balances.

Want to steal some ASF members across to a new forum? Go register aussiestockforum.com & aussiestockforms.com, make them look fairly similar and start phishing a few of the lesser clued ASF members.

m.
 
marklar said:
It's completely different. Domain names are based purely on TRUST, there is no effective regulation and very few checks & balances.

Want to steal some ASF members across to a new forum? Go register aussiestockforum.com & aussiestockforms.com, make them look fairly similar and start phishing a few of the lesser clued ASF members.

m.
Click to expand...

Same with a company name if you're that keen go for it.
Anyone would be welcome to the lesser clued ASF members, what on earth would anyone want them for:p:
 
MrBurns said:
Same with a company name if you're that keen go for it.
Click to expand...
But that's the point. In the past if you wanted a .com.au you had to PROVE it was a business, with an ACN, and the domain name had to look something like your registered business name or trading name.

Anyone would be welcome to the lesser clued ASF members, what on earth would anyone want them for:p:
Click to expand...
It's an example to illustrate the unregulated nature of the .com namespace, that's all.

Phishing attacks weren't common when control of .com.au was wrested away from Elz, nobody really thought through the impact of deregulating things. We are now seeing the impact of it, every day, and the attacks are getting much more sophisticated. Oh well, at least it keeps me in a job.

m.
 
Netfleet do you actually approach companies saying that you have a domain name they may be interested in? or do you simply wait for them to approach you?
 
marklar said:
Phishing attacks weren't common when control of .com.au was wrested away from Elz, nobody really thought through the impact of deregulating things. We are now seeing the impact of it, every day, and the attacks are getting much more sophisticated. Oh well, at least it keeps me in a job.

m.
Click to expand...

what exactly are "phishing" attacks ?

excuse my naivety i just dont know what it stands for
 
marklar said:
But that's the point. In the past if you wanted a .com.au you had to PROVE it was a business, with an ACN, and the domain name had to look something like your registered business name or trading name.


It's an example to illustrate the unregulated nature of the .com namespace, that's all.

Phishing attacks weren't common when control of .com.au was wrested away from Elz, nobody really thought through the impact of deregulating things. We are now seeing the impact of it, every day, and the attacks are getting much more sophisticated. Oh well, at least it keeps me in a job.

m.
Click to expand...

It was easy to get a doman name even then... you just had to register a business name similar to the domain name, easy.

You didnt actually have to run a business just have the registered name.

I think netfleet has shot through, we may have been the target of a viral marketing exercise.:cautious:
 
marklar said:
And thus the ceaseless monetisation of our little corner of the Internet rolls on.... if only Robert Elz wasn't forced to hand over com.au to Melbourne IT in the mid '90s we might still have some integrity and an ability to stop phishing attacks on Australian financial institutions.

*sigh*

m.
Click to expand...

phishing is nothing to do with domaining. And I don't think there has ever been a phishing attack using a .AU domain name. The namespace is highly regulated (some would say overregulated).

Think of the last time you got an email pretending to be from a bank. Check out the link - it's never a .au domain.

MrBurns said:
netfleet, how do you get a value for your names, generic are more valuable for instance but what are they worth ? I mean you wouldn't give up a generic name for nothing, they're irreplaceable.
Click to expand...

Valuation is a tricky business - esp with less than one year of sales history to benchmark. There is real value in SEO too (search engine optimisation) not to mention the impact of ROI a memorable domain can have on optimisation.

Put it this way, if I was launching a new website (maybe a new business), I'd be happy to spend a few hundred to a few thousand to have a half decent domain if I'm going to try and market it at all (rather than compromise on a crappy hand-registered name)

gfresh said:
Are you just gambling on speculation that somebody may actually want the names you register in future? The hit/miss ratio must be pretty high.

I don't see why anybody should have to pay big dollars paid for simply a name, many of which are just common words? It isn't actually anything tangible where any constructive effort has been put into producing the item. You click a couple of boxes, and there is your domain name.

Those rubbish "nothing" placeholder sites which are simply advertising pages give me the irrits, I don't quite why they should be allowed to exist, they serve no purpose as any productive part of the internet..

I've had domain names I've let go in the past, only to go to the sharks who re-register them, simply to capture traffic from the former name and goodwill created from the website to stick stupid advertising banners on them.. I think that is pretty low to piggyback off what somebody else has helped establish as a name.
Click to expand...

Yes it is hit and miss but if the 'type-in traffic' (the holy grail for domainers) meets or exceeds your $25 every 2 years, you can afford to play the numbers game and hold thousands of them.

I understand your point re the placeholder sites but remember if they weren't registered what would you see? "This page can not be displayed..." At least a parked site might give you some useful links (albeit ads)

investorpaul said:
Netfleet do you actually approach companies saying that you have a domain name they may be interested in? or do you simply wait for them to approach you?
Click to expand...

The former is very very hard. For example I tried to flog debitcard.com.au to the banks. They wouldn't listen so I spent a few hundred developing it and now if you search for 'debit card' in Google, my little site is number 2, way above all the financial institutions. Now perhaps they might be interested - after all they all spend millions promoting products just like these

Aussiest said:
Yeah, somebody should get on his or her website and waste their (netfleet's) time :p:
Click to expand...

You are more than welcome :) Look it wasn't a 'viral marketing' excercise by any means. I am just genuinly interested in a trader's assessment of such an investment. Most people in domains (myself included) do not have your skills but just fell into it one way or another.

Of course it is in my interests for more people to invest & trade as it's good for the site.

Anyway I'm happy to answer any questions about it - you'd be surprised to the extent of it & who are involved (did you know Fairfax owns 33,000 .au domains and another Australian listed company owns around 550,000 domains) ;)
 
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