Flood of migrants overwhelm Australia's borders

[doctorj]

We are training them over-there , these grubs are just parasites , if they don't give a sh*t about there home land , imagine what sort of loyalty they will have for Australia ?

How can you possibly judge the reasons and motivation for them coming to Australia without knowing anything beyond what you've seen in the press? Surely there are dozens of valid and honourable reasons for them to risk their lives to come to Australia? Frankly, calling them grubs and parasites without any understanding or knowledge at all is offensive and arrogant.

 

[Bobby]

How can you possibly judge the reasons and motivation for them coming to Australia without knowing anything beyond what you've seen in the press? Surely there are dozens of valid and honourable reasons for them to risk their lives to come to Australia? Frankly, calling them grubs and parasites without any understanding or knowledge at all is offensive and arrogant.

Doc , they are abandoning their families & country , running away from a conflict we are spending Aussie lives to save , thats why

 

[doctorj]

Doc , they are abandoning their families & country , running away from a conflict we are spending Aussie lives to save , thats why

I just don't think that's a reasonable conclusion to draw without any idea of the reasons behind their actions.

 

[Stormin_Norman]

93% of refugees arrive by jumbo jets.

 

[rederob]

On this thread I have not argued against migration per se.

You argued against taking on more refugees; asylum seekers; a greater humanitarian intake; unskilled migration; certain ethnic groups; non-English speaking migrants; and skilled workers who left less developed nations to come here.

I have argued that an optimal rate and mix of migration must be sought, so that the std of living and future environmentally sustainable economic viability of the country is not heavily compromised.

At no point did you suggest “an optimal rate and mix of migration”. You used decade old data for criminality that extrapolated one State’s experience to represent the national experience, despite their being no evidence this was the case. You chose to ignore the fact that the best available information suggests that non-Australian born have a criminality rate less than Australian born.
You cherry picked labour force data that, unsurprisingly, showed that skilled white people from English speaking nations did better than other overseas born. Yet the labour force data show that over time there is little difference in unemployment rates between native and overseas born.
You distorted logic to suggest that more productive overseas born were actually less productive.
You recreated a reality that suited your distorted view to prove that unskilled migration would be detrimental to our standard of living. You were unable to show this for Australia, instead relying on overseas experiences which are very dissimilar to our own.

Some in the thread cannot or will not debate what is a viable level of migration, because their thoughts are not evolved enough to clearly delineate what is reasonable debate of such and what might be purveyed as racism.

In the past 5 years Australia created 1.2 million new jobs, had a relatively steady GDP, our lowest employment rates and our highest ever migrant intakes. This countered your assertion that we couldn’t accommodate 100,000 migrants without lowering per capita GDP.
Your response was sheer gobbledygook; difficult to follow economic mumbo jumbo and social diatribes that took snippets from all over the place in a confused attempt to support your position, eg:.

....the lower birth rate of caucasians in developed nations is a result of a poorer std of living....the stress of job insecurity, dual income families out of need not choice, indebted to the eyeballs from school, high cost of housing, poor infrastructure, higher health care costs, lack of security in retirement etc etc....and this is your idea of wealth....

And it is sad that this same lack of delineation is continuing to compromise debate of these extremely important issues in the media. It is sad because it shows there is not enough maturity and subtlety of intelligence amongst some, to walk the middle path through these issues and find a more favourable outcome for all. Instead, the migration debate is shut down and demonized by PC extremists and elites who think they will benefit from downwards pressure on the minimum wage.

You provided little to debate. Responses to my posts were peppered with exaggerated and false assumptions, silly labels, and contrived conclusions that deliberately misrepresented what I stated. You walked no "middle path".

Your “last post” in this thread is a contemptuous lie draped in moral indignation. In context, it is entirely in keeping with many of your earlier posts.
I give you high marks for consistency.

 

[Calanen]

Immigration should only be permitted on the basis as if it is a job interview. The best applicants get the job, in the national interest. Not anyone who applies like the ability to be an Australian citizen is a worthless handout, like our passports are junk mail given to any who would wish it.

They should let more backpackers stay here. They speak English, their education is high, they are by and large peaceful and many want to stay. It is ridiculous to kick them out and let other people in who hate this country and are avowedly against our laws and system of government.

 

[mayk]

Immigration should only be permitted on the basis as if it is a job interview. The best applicants get the job, in the national interest. Not anyone who applies like the ability to be an Australian citizen is a worthless handout, like our passports are junk mail given to any who would wish it.

They should let more backpackers stay here. They speak English, their education is high, they are by and large peaceful and many want to stay. It is ridiculous to kick them out and let other people in who hate this country and are avowedly against our laws and system of government.

Your conclusion states all people who fail to obey the law of the land should be kicked out, yet you support the English speaking backpackers who knowingly discard our immigration laws. A fine example of Hypocrisy...

 

[Calanen]

Your conclusion states all people who fail to obey the law of the land should be kicked out, yet you support the English speaking backpackers who knowingly discard our immigration laws. A fine example of Hypocrisy...

All English backpackers knowingly discard our immigration laws? My my, they must have a big jail somewhere full of about 10 million people.

 

[mayk]

All English backpackers knowingly discard our immigration laws? My my, they must have a big jail somewhere full of about 10 million people.

I never said "ALL" only those who disregard our laws, read before you get on the mantra of "my, my" and ohhh Dear-ism.

 

[Calanen]

I never said "ALL" only those who disregard our laws, read before you get on the mantra of "my, my" and ohhh Dear-ism.

I did read, you said:

yet you support the English speaking backpackers who knowingly discard our immigration laws.

When I never said anything of the sort. The only available inference from the sequence of sentences is that you believe all English backpackers are immigration lawbreakers. Who said anything about supporting lawbreakers? Only you. Just for the record, any lawbreakers, whether English backpackers or otherwise, were not going to be part of my immigration program. But did I really need to say that? Perhaps only for you.

 

[mayk]

I did read, you said:



When I never said anything of the sort. The only available inference from the sequence of sentences is that you believe all English backpackers are immigration lawbreakers. Who said anything about supporting lawbreakers? Only you. Just for the record, any lawbreakers, whether English backpackers or otherwise, were not going to be part of my immigration program. But did I really need to say that? Perhaps only for you.

What does kicking backpackers mean? As you alluded in your post. I might have misunderstood...

 

[helicart]

You provided little to debate. Responses to my posts were peppered with exaggerated and false assumptions, silly labels, and contrived conclusions that deliberately misrepresented what I stated. You walked no "middle path".

Not once did you elaborate the human carrying capacity of Australia (let alone the planet), nor a sustainable migration rate.

As the Australian continent continues to be degradated i.e. the Murray Darling Basin, you live, think, and breathe in the dark shadow of anachronistic socialist ideology when it comes to migration, ignoring that other great religious mantra of the left, the real risk of global warming

Not once did you address the cause and unsustainability of rising net foreign liabilities, in the face of some of the fastest migration fueled population growth in recent history....presumably because you are at best an economic dilettante.... Neither did you address the reason why infrastructure is not keeping up with migration, as evidenced by the financial woes of NSW and Vic State govts, the two states that benefit most from migration.....and how you manage to exclude California's experience with migration can only be surmised as the greatest the quaintest and the most convenient non sequitur ever.

Clearly, you do not apply yourself to the issues I have raised because you are not adequately informed and you offer emotion and ego in its place. And no greater consistency has there been in this thread than that..

 

[Calanen]

What does kicking backpackers mean? As you alluded in your post. I might have misunderstood...

It means that after their 6 month visas run out, these people have to go home when loads of them want to stay. And they should be allowed to stay.

 

[rederob]

Clearly, you do not apply yourself to the issues I have raised because you are not adequately informed and you offer emotion and ego in its place. And no greater consistency has there been in this thread than that..

You have little capacity to stay on task.
You shift the goalposts whenever the game gets away from you.
You are doing it again.
If you want a debate about sustainability, open another thread.
If you want to debate the infrastructure issues confronting States, open another thread.
If you want to compare Australia to California, open another thread.
In the meantime I look forward to anything more here that invites interest.

 

[helicart]

You have little capacity to stay on task.
You shift the goalposts whenever the game gets away from you.
You are doing it again.
If you want a debate about sustainability, open another thread.
If you want to debate the infrastructure issues confronting States, open another thread.
If you want to compare Australia to California, open another thread.
In the meantime I look forward to anything more here that invites interest.

OK, just address these two points when you are good and ready.

-the positive correlation between migration and the failure of publicly funded infrastructure and service delivery to keep up.

- the positive correlation between Australia's rising net foreign debt and higher migration over the last 25 years.

 

[rederob]

OK, just address these two points when you are good and ready.

-the positive correlation between migration and the failure of publicly funded infrastructure and service delivery to keep up.

- the positive correlation between Australia's rising net foreign debt and higher migration over the last 25 years.

You should know better. Positive correlations do not imply causality. Nor are the underlying points tested for validity.
For as long as I have been reading newspapers - and it's more than 25 years - the hue and cry for more infrastructure has gone out. This issue is a furphy.
On foreign debt and migration there is a pretty simple explanation. In boom times we need overseas capital to finance industry, and we need overseas labour to address labour shortages. There is no need to correlate the obvious.
Stop clutching at straws, and get back to the nub of the thread's theme.

 

[mayk]

It means that after their 6 month visas run out, these people have to go home when loads of them want to stay. And they should be allowed to stay.

Well I am all for it, given UK reciprocates the favor. Otherwise just get the sensible, good hard working immigrants, without any bias or exception.

 

[helicart]

You should know better. Positive correlations do not imply causality. Nor are the underlying points tested for validity.
For as long as I have been reading newspapers - and it's more than 25 years - the hue and cry for more infrastructure has gone out. This issue is a furphy.


I've been reading newspapers longer than 25 years AND catching public transport....so I call your furphy and raise you.

I've never heard of a Melbourne transport congestion tax being raised before recently, and Melbourne's main roads didn't need tolls when I was younger.....where's all our extra migrant tax revenue going do you think?

On foreign debt and migration there is a pretty simple explanation. In boom times we need overseas capital to finance industry, and we need overseas labour to address labour shortages. There is no need to correlate the obvious.
Stop clutching at straws, and get back to the nub of the thread's theme.

Try and come up with an excuse for Aussie miners needing to not only borrow foreign money, but be put in a position to sell the farm and mine....Poor Wayne Swan almost has a full time job appraising overseas purchases of Aussie miners.

Minmetals on Oz Minerals
Chinalco on Rio
Hunan Valin Iron and Steel Group on Fortescue Metals Group
Shougang by stealth buying up Mount Gibson Iron Ore.
Shougang Group on Mount Gibson Iron Ore
Shenzhen Zhongjin Lingnan Nonfemet and PT Aneka Tambang Tbk on Herald Resources Ltd
MCC Mining on Cape Lambert Iron Ore Ltd
China Shenhua Group and China Coal Energy, Yanzhou Coal Mining on Aussie coal mines.
Haoning Group on Brockman Resources Ltd

Shell on Woodside several years ago.

Wow, so you want us to take on more people from overseas while we are simultaneously selling off our assets and company revenues. Now that's a neat trick.....

Here, this might help you understand why you need to take capital considerations more seriously.

"Access Economics forecasts that the current account deficit will blow out to $100 billion, or 8.4 per cent of GDP, next financial year. That’s “something bigger and nastier than anything we’ve ever seen”, according to its director Chris Richardson.

Financing this external deficit will push up Australia’s net foreign liabilities, mostly due to a ballooning in net foreign debt from $678 billion to $873 billion by 2012-13, according to Access Economics.

At 63 per cent of GDP, this would be double the foreign debt burden that sparked Paul Keating’s “banana republic” warning in 1986.

“The boom years masked an underlying worsening in Australia’s foreign debt trajectory, but the downturn is now making our vulnerability on this front clearer,” Richardson says. This limits how much more Australia can borrow abroad to get it through the recession. The alternatives are a recession to club local credit demand and increased foreign equity investment in the Australian economy.

With falling oil prices drying up the petro-dollars, China and Japan have the biggest financial surpluses to invest abroad. This is driving the surge of Chinese investment in Australia’s mining sector, capped by Chinalco’s $US19.5 billion bid to double its equity stake in Rio Tinto to 18 per cent.

In opposing Chinalco’s bid as against the national interest, Turnbull yesterday depicted it as a strategic play by the Chinese state to control Australian resources. But debtors can only be so choosy. Blocking an equity investment from the world’s biggest source of savings amid a global credit crunch would increase Australia’s recession risks.

“If we didn’t want Chinalco to be buying up bits of Australia, we shouldn’t have bought so many plasma TVs,” Richardson says."

And it isn't just industry that has increased foreign borrowing....resi mortgages rely on it too.....check out what's happening with fixed rates in the last few weeks.

 

[rederob]

And it isn't just industry that has increased foreign borrowing....resi mortgages rely on it too.....check out what's happening with fixed rates in the last few weeks.

Stay on task.
You need to show the material impact of migration on company takeovers, etc..

 

[helicart]

Stay on task.
You need to show the material impact of migration on company takeovers, etc..

As you need to disprove

-that infrastructure isn't keeping up with pop growth.

-that migrant intake hasn't improved Australia's balance sheet and cash flow.



Processing the claims of dual asylum seeker entrants wouldn't be helping...