CSS - Clean Seas Seafood

[nizora]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

First picture of bred tuna

http://portlincoln.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/first-picture-of-bred-tuna/1494387.aspx

CHRISTOPHER COOTE
22/04/2009 11:30:00 PM
CLEAN Seas Tuna has released a photograph of a 22-day-old juvenile southern bluefin tuna that was bred at its onshore facility at Arno Bay.

Clean Seas chairman Hagen Stehr said the fish is one of many the company has kept alive since the broodstock began spawning early last month.


The fish are about 2.5 centimetres long and Mr Stehr said they are growing faster and faster with each day. Southern bluefin tuna are expected to reach about 10kg within their first 12 months of life.


The company is expecting to "go commercial" with the fish later this year when the temperature of the sea rises so the juveniles can be put into sea cages.


"The only thing that can stop us from making this a commercially viable proposition is human error ... otherwise we can now say we will have fish in the water sooner, rather than later," he said

 

[FI$H]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

ok, we're not going to win a beauty contest with this one...


I wonder what he means by saying that this is only one of the many they kept alive

 

[marklar]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Cute little fella. It's great to see something tangible from the years of hard work and $ invested.

m.

 

[Basilica]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

ok, we're not going to win a beauty contest with this one...


I wonder what he means by saying that this is only one of the many they kept alive

Like i said whel i saw the pics of the NBT
Only a mother or a fishfarmer could love it.
Do you mean how many is many? 10, 100, 1000, 100000 could all be many.
I must confess fi$h ..... Hagan has not PM me yet with the numbers
But i am still hopefull he will
or is it still alive? It look like someone ate a fillit before the photo.

 

[Basilica]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

ok, we're not going to win a beauty contest with this one...


I wonder what he means by saying that this is only one of the many they kept alive

Like i said when i saw the pics of the NBT
Only a mother or a fishfarmer could love it.
Do you mean how many is many? 10, 100, 1000, 100000 could all be many.
I must confess fi$h ..... Hagen has not PM me yet with the numbers
But i am still hopefull he will
or is it still alive? It look like someone ate a fillit before the photo.

 

[tge oracle]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

If you refer to the recent investor update you will note that CSS have reported that fingerling production up to 25,000 is considered pre-commercial.
So it is reasonable to assume that the number of fingerlings could be anywhere between 1 and 24999.
I suspect CSS will surprise the market with a signifcant quantity , they are just waiting for more fingerlings to mature before updating the market.

On the issue of finance, my preference woud be for a capital raising as I am convinced there are many significant institutional and sophisticated investors wanting to invest in CSS. This company is surely moving on to the radar of index and large fund managers. It will also get strong support from existing investors now it has achieved these significant milestones and essentially de-risked much of the SBT project.

Finally, I think CSS will provide positive ( surprise ) updates to the market in the future on all aspects of the business. I do believe they will adopt an " under promise and over deliver " ( quiet achiever ) approach to reporting in the future.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Probably a bit off topic... but how the hell do aquaculture companies count the exact amount of fingerlings they have??? Its not like they will just stop swimming around while people conduct a count

 

[Basilica]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Probably a bit off topic... but how the hell do aquaculture companies count the exact amount of fingerlings they have??? Its not like they will just stop swimming around while people conduct a count

I can answer that prawn, At the DPI hatchery we had 2 methods, at the lavae stage a number of scoops were taken from the quite small tanks and counted by hand and averaged then multiplied by the number of scoops in the tank. When at the fingerling stage they were counted by forcing them to swim in to a submerged contanier and counted and removed. (only when an exact count is required) A third method that i use at home is to place them in a shallow white dish so they are swimming mostly 1 deep and photograph them so they as you correctly guessed "Stop Swimming". There are also optical counters that count them as they swim through a pipe going from 1 tank to another. A cashed up company like CSS would use the last method for fingerlings.

 

[Basilica]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

On the issue of finance, my preference woud be for a capital raising as I am convinced there are many significant institutional and sophisticated investors wanting to invest in CSS. This company is surely moving on to the radar of index and large fund managers. It will also get strong support from existing investors now it has achieved these significant milestones and essentially de-risked much of the SBT project.

My two cents, would be to self fund the first batch for a year (to wild catch size)with their current infrastructure. Then do a capital raising with a proven formula into a stronger financial market. If they raise capital soon and there is even a small setback with stock mortality the investers will swim away in schools.

 

[sashimi]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

What is your plan Sashimi, Grow out of wild catch in cages? Breeding?
I think it is a healthy attitude to assume any company can fail. Value is all about risk vs return. I think "No real possability" is a little too confident in these troubling times.

Begins with yellowfin tuna grow out rates are something like double.

sashimi market is limited.

Begins in the pacific with hunter gatherer with one tow cage type, operation with the local people and turns from there.

fattening with a firm contract.

Breeding

Restocking the wild.

Technically every tuna that is caught can be put in a cage.
This mean the whole tuna resource.

Once you pack tuna for a plane the whole world is your market

Hagan should have had some fingerlings last year.

 

[Basilica]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

1 Begins with yellowfin tuna grow out rates are something like double.

2 sashimi market is limited.

3 Begins in the pacific with hunter gatherer with one tow cage type, operation with the local people and turns from there.

4 fattening with a firm contract.

5 Breeding

6 Restocking the wild.

7 Technically every tuna that is caught can be put in a cage.
This mean the whole tuna resource.

8 Once you pack tuna for a plane the whole world is your market

9 Hagan should have had some fingerlings last year.

Wow a lot of areas of interest.
In the order you wrote.

1 Can you double the size of the catch in cages cheaper than catching twice as many.

2 I totally agree, and i remember when Rainbow Trout and Barramundi were very expensive products consumed only in premium restraurants. Now they are farmed in large volumes, they sell for much less. Supply and demand will determin the price. Premium Tuna will also follow the same trend.

3 Do you mean the tow cage will be behind the Trawler and also be used for fattening?

4 Not enough info to comment on except (sounds great if it can be achieved profitably)

5 Very tricky but yes it has been proven possible.

6 Restocking is possible when breeding of fingerling is greater than demand for fingerlings. But for a traveling fish like Tuna, you will spend the money near the equator and they will swim down to Hagen's trawlers and he will catch them before they return to you. Would need to be a multi national effort for tuna.

7 Do you mean to put all tuna into cages?

8 Technically yes but transport is very expensive. Why not just tow the cage to Japan and feed them on the way?

9 I think Hagen and his team have done very well to achieve fingerlings in only their second season of fertalised eggs. What could they have done to achieve fingerling last year? What is your plan?

Cheers,
Basilica

 

[sashimi]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Wow a lot of areas of interest.
In the order you wrote.

1 Can you double the size of the catch in cages cheaper than catching twice as many.

2 I totally agree, and i remember when Rainbow Trout and Barramundi were very expensive products consumed only in premium restraurants. Now they are farmed in large volumes, they sell for much less. Supply and demand will determin the price. Premium Tuna will also follow the same trend.

3 Do you mean the tow cage will be behind the Trawler and also be used for fattening?

4 Not enough info to comment on except (sounds great if it can be achieved profitably)

5 Very tricky but yes it has been proven possible.

6 Restocking is possible when breeding of fingerling is greater than demand for fingerlings. But for a traveling fish like Tuna, you will spend the money near the equator and they will swim down to Hagen's trawlers and he will catch them before they return to you. Would need to be a multi national effort for tuna.

7 Do you mean to put all tuna into cages?

8 Technically yes but transport is very expensive. Why not just tow the cage to Japan and feed them on the way?

9 I think Hagen and his team have done very well to achieve fingerlings in only their second season of fertalised eggs. What could they have done to achieve fingerling last year? What is your plan?

Cheers,
Basilica

1) It woul be cheaper to catch twice as many.

2)

3) Tow cage and boat together working as a team drifting through especially identified area's with local crew poling fish into a cage, Before harvesting one a week for the fresh sashimi market. A tuna cage with fish in it is the best fish aggregating device on the planet bar none.

4) fattening by contract. In other words when a particular client might come to you because he requires 100 tonnes of fattened tuna for his or her clients at a given time.

5) Breeding very tricky now but in 10-15 years you will be asking yourself why it took so long? What was all the fuss about?

6) Breeding will bring millions if not billions of fertilized eggs. Only way to utilize all that can be produced will be to release some.

7) It is technically possible to put the whole world tuna catch into a cage and after it can be harvested. Not necessarily to be fattened.

8) My guess is they did achieve fingerlings last year probably only the 10-20-30-100 that is discussed on this forum . (They certainly should have done)

As far intellectual property right is concerned .
A brood stock some items off the shelf and some basic knowledge and money should be all that is required. I do not know much about this issue of intellectual property rights and how it works but I believe that breeding tuna in the future will turn out to be a very simple exercise indeed.

 

[Basilica]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

1)
8) My guess is they did achieve fingerlings last year probably only the 10-20-30-100 that is discussed on this forum . (They certainly should have done)

As far intellectual property right is concerned .
A brood stock some items off the shelf and some basic knowledge and money should be all that is required. I do not know much about this issue of intellectual property rights and how it works but I believe that breeding tuna in the future will turn out to be a very simple exercise indeed.

Hi Sashimi,

I am very happy to discuss all aspects of the project you are contemplating. But i wonder if the CSS forum is the place to do it?

I again make the offer to all the "Plankton Eaters" on this Thread If there is room for a General Aquaculture thread in perhaps the "General Chat" Forum. There are a number of topics worthy of discussion that are not specific to CSS or any other companies thread, but are relevant to investers in the industry as a whole. Like overall views of the industry, fishmeal vs land based feed, Reducing fishmeal stocks, Feed supliers, Growth in aquaculture, etc, etc. Is anyone interested in these general topics?

Sashimi you have raised a couple of points that i am happy to address here.
8) Investers have only recently been told that a small number of lavae survived until 5 days old from last years spawning. That is about when the nutrients from the still attached egg were depleted. Can you give any idea why CSS would not disclose it to investor if they achieved fingerling like you suggest? Why do you think they "certainly should have done".

Regarding intelectual property i am not a legal guru but they currently have the secrets but yes it will eventually become common knoledge.

Cheers,
Basilica

 

[FI$H]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Hi Sashimi,

I again make the offer to all the "Plankton Eaters" on this Thread If there is room for a General Aquaculture thread in perhaps the "General Chat" Forum. There are a number of topics worthy of discussion that are not specific to CSS or any other companies thread, but are relevant to investers in the industry as a whole. Like overall views of the industry, fishmeal vs land based feed, Reducing fishmeal stocks, Feed supliers, Growth in aquaculture, etc, etc. Is anyone interested in these general topics?

Regarding intelectual property i am not a legal guru but they currently have the secrets but yes it will eventually become common knoledge.

I think it would be worthwhile discussing all aquaculture related companies in one thread. i.e. the CAQ thread seems to be dead although they recently announced a possible expansion into South Africa. These companies are too small to deserve their own thread and should be combined in one as long as people find their way to them.

I wouldn't worry too much about the spread of tuna breeding technology. Aquaculture seems to be like the internet with few players dominating the market. It's very difficult to catch up with the ones that got there first. CSS will be the first company to mass produce bluefin tuna and remain the only one to produce SBT for a long time. The whole European aquaculture sector went up today because of swine flu concerns amongst consumers. Wonder why we're down again
I guess we'll know where we're at 25-28days after the last day of spawning which was the 16th of April.

 

[Tysonboss1]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Hi All,

I love the thought of aquaculture I am thinking about buying some TGR or possibly CSS stock.

I was just wodering when it comes to transport what are the options for transporting into the asian market.

Does the stock have to be transported by air, or are there cheaper options.

 

[FI$H]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Asian consumers demand fresh product and the fish has to be transported to Japan by air where a single fish can fetch ten thousands of dollars. the stehr group has been in the grow-out business for a long time. now their business won't be restricted by wild catch quotas anymore.

 

[sashimi]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Hi All,

I love the thought of aquaculture I am thinking about buying some TGR or possibly CSS stock.

I was just wodering when it comes to transport what are the options for transporting into the asian market.

Does the stock have to be transported by air, or are there cheaper options.

The point here is will CSS let you take fingerlings out of Australia.

An enterprising venture will only need a few hundred in order to develop a new brood stock.

Because of the tuna quota system CSS is sitting on top of the pile with southern bluefin and I imagine there will come a day when they will choose a different location for their operation.

 

[tge oracle]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

An positive news article from today's Australian.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25395649-36418,00.html

 

[sashimi]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Hi Sashimi,

I am very happy to discuss all aspects of the project you are contemplating. But i wonder if the CSS forum is the place to do it?

I again make the offer to all the "Plankton Eaters" on this Thread If there is room for a General Aquaculture thread in perhaps the "General Chat" Forum. There are a number of topics worthy of discussion that are not specific to CSS or any other companies thread, but are relevant to investers in the industry as a whole. Like overall views of the industry, fishmeal vs land based feed, Reducing fishmeal stocks, Feed supliers, Growth in aquaculture, etc, etc. Is anyone interested in these general topics?

Sashimi you have raised a couple of points that i am happy to address here.
8) Investers have only recently been told that a small number of lavae survived until 5 days old from last years spawning. That is about when the nutrients from the still attached egg were depleted. Can you give any idea why CSS would not disclose it to investor if they achieved fingerling like you suggest? Why do you think they "certainly should have done".

Regarding intelectual property i am not a legal guru but they currently have the secrets but yes it will eventually become common knoledge.

Cheers,
Basilica

Hi Basilica.

As you well know there are many issues in this business that must have answers that are sometimes not so clear.

I also am beginning to think that this is not the right place for the kind of discussion that is beginning to appear and I am open to suggestions.

As to fingerlings. If it was my operation and given that I really was gambling on spawning i would know that it could come on suddenly and that we might encounter problems keeping fingerlings alive which are directly associated with the surprise.
But they should have been in a position to save some of them.

I find it difficult to believe that you would not anticipate this kind of potential problem and be prepared for it. In my view it is the natural evolution of the endeavour.

As far as why it might not be disclosed CSS thinks what is going on is a big secret and its their secret however I do not know the law related to disclosure

Even though I have some knowledge I am learning a great deal here. For me its like filling in the gaps.

 

[Basilica]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

I think it would be worthwhile discussing all aquaculture related companies in one thread. i.e. the CAQ thread seems to be dead although they recently announced a possible expansion into South Africa. These companies are too small to deserve their own thread and should be combined in one as long as people find their way to them.

Finding the thread may be difficult if all aqua companies are together.
I think CSS and TGR are big enough and should keep their own Thread and put all the minnow companies in with a general thread. There have been a lot of OT general comments that will have a suitable place to be discussed.

I wouldn't worry too much about the spread of tuna breeding technology. Aquaculture seems to be like the internet with few players dominating the market. It's very difficult to catch up with the ones that got there first. CSS will be the first company to mass produce bluefin tuna and remain the only one to produce SBT for a long time. The whole European aquaculture sector went up today because of swine flu concerns amongst consumers. Wonder why we're down again
I guess we'll know where we're at 25-28days after the last day of spawning which was the 16th of April.

I also have almost no concerns about competitors to CSS breading. All of the Bio-Gurus onside must have at least 5 year secret clauses and that is enough to hold on to the lead position. And "Hagen's Huge indoor Tuna Spar" was bloody expensive. Any future competitors wont have the market to justify spending that money like CSS does.

The point here is will CSS let you take fingerlings out of Australia.

Because of the tuna quota system CSS is sitting on top of the pile with southern bluefin and I imagine there will come a day when they will choose a different location for their operation.

If they are offered the right price CSS will sell the fingerlings.

An positive news article from today's Australian.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25395649-36418,00.html

Thanks again for the link Oracle, another one i would have missed. It is surprising they are not bigger than 2 weeks ago, Are they dying at that size and these are different fingerlings? Or old info?

Hi Basilica.

As to fingerlings. If it was my operation and given that I really was gambling on spawning i would know that it could come on suddenly and that we might encounter problems keeping fingerlings alive which are directly associated with the surprise.
But they should have been in a position to save some of them.

I find it difficult to believe that you would not anticipate this kind of potential problem and be prepared for it. In my view it is the natural evolution of the endeavour.

As far as why it might not be disclosed CSS thinks what is going on is a big secret and its their secret however I do not know the law related to disclosure

I have no hessitation in critising companies when there is even a valid possibility. But you have not provided any reason, technical or motive to back up your theory. Last year was the first spawning and it came partly as a surprise. They then had only "many hours' to grow phytoplankton, feed it to the zooplankton then feed the zooplankton to the tuna lavae. They had eggs as feed but that may not have been a balanced diet. And on top of that huge challange they have no motive at all. they got hammered in the share market, Why would they keep that news a secret. I think you need to back up your claims with at least a theory.