Buying gold coins - Can they be legally smelted?

[Sunder]

Hey guys,

This really is forward planning, but my girlfriend and I have started talking about getting engaged soon, and we've booked in a pre-engagement course. I'm being presumptious here that we're going to get to the end of the 10 week course, and we'll still want to get married, but on the assumption that we do, we've also discussed about her designing her own ring.

So rather than propose with a ring, I wanted to propose with a gold coin, and some diamonds. (I'm thinking of sailing to an inaccessible beach, telling her some fake story of early convicts burying treasure here, then "finding" it using sleight of hand. She loves both sailing and the beach, so it seems like a perfect way to propose to me).

I have lots of questions:

1. Where in Sydney can I get gold coin?

2. I know it's illegal to destroy legal tender. Are gold coins considered tender? I've been told all purchases of gold are recorded. That sounds like they need to keep track of where it's going and if I have it smelted, it would destroy all accountability.

3. I'm assuming that a standard gold coin is 1 ounce. Does anyone know what an engagement ring usually weighs?

4. Anyone know where to get wholesale unmounted diamonds?

5. Is this just a stupid idea? Am I just a lovestruck attempting-to-be-romantic?

Thanks.

 

[Nyden]

I don't understand as to why you would want to buy a gold coin only to smelt it? Gold coins always have a hefty markup on them above the spot price of gold, and yes - are considered legal tender. Why not just buy a 1oz gold cast bar, and smelt that down?

Gold coins can be anything from 1oz, to 1/25th of an oz! A ring would be no where near an ounce I would say, and would not be of the same 99.999% purity that a coin would be (way too soft).

I don't know about fibbing to her either (about finding the lost treasure), would it not be more meaningful to her to know that you pre-planned the entire thing? Women tend to like such thoughtfulness

Oh, and you can order gold coins online at the Perth mint. Although, if you're looking for something more 'old', you can buy gold Sovereigns from the 1800s on eBay.

In addition, I've never heard of these pre-engagement courses? What would they entail, exactly? Engaged to be engaged is it?

 

[Sunder]

I don't understand as to why you would want to buy a gold coin only to smelt it? Gold coins always have a hefty markup on them above the spot price of gold, and yes - are considered legal tender. Why not just buy a 1oz gold cast bar, and smelt that down?

Gold coins can be anything from 1oz, to 1/25th of an oz! A ring would be no where near an ounce I would say, and would not be of the same 99.999% purity that a coin would be (way too soft).

I don't know about fibbing to her either (about finding the lost treasure), would it not be more meaningful to her to know that you pre-planned the entire thing? Women tend to like such thoughtfulness

Oh, and you can order gold coins online at the Perth mint. Although, if you're looking for something more 'old', you can buy gold Sovereigns from the 1800s on eBay.

In addition, I've never heard of these pre-engagement courses? What would they entail, exactly? Engaged to be engaged is it?

Thanks Nyden,

I didn't know you could get cast bars. I did some quick checking and saw that coins seemed only about 10% more than spot price of gold. Perhaps I was mistaken, or looking at something else.

I might have a look at the Perth mint site.

The Pre-engagement courses seem to be something that is almost exclusively in Christian circles. From the course agenda, it looks like it talks about communication and conflict resolution style, expectations, personal and couple goals and things like that. It's basically the same as premarital counselling, but seems to be in much more depth. (Premarital classes are usually 3-5 weeks long).

Interesting research I read the other day when researching marriage:

Apparently if you define a Christian family as one who marks a Christian religion on the Census, Christians have a slightly higher divorce rate than the overall population.

If you define a Christian family as one who goes to church at least half the time, the divorce rate drops to about 1/3rd of the divorce rate of the total population.

If you define a Christian family as one who prays together at least once a week, the divorce rate plummets to neglible - as in they didn't have enough samples of divorced Christians who prayed together to have a statistically reliable number.

Say what you want about the religion itself, but in terms of keeping marriages together, it does appear that the Christian environment, placing such a high value on families, keeps families together, and I think the uniqueness of pre-engagement preparation courses reflect this.

Edit: Just read what I wrote and realise it sounds a bit arrogant. Sorry if that's how it comes across. I guess I was just reflecting on how the Christian culture do seem to have a lot of marital and pre-marital support, and it does seem reflect in the "success" rate of the marriage.

 

[Nyden]

Say what you want about the religion itself, but in terms of keeping marriages together, it does appear that the Christian environment, placing such a high value on families, keeps families together, and I think the uniqueness of pre-engagement preparation courses reflect this.

Hmmm, I don't know about that. I'd say it was more a result of divorce going against the belief system of many devout believers - and that what this research doesn't show; is that many of these married couples may be terribly unhappy - and would perhaps be happier with a divorce!

Christian values can often impose guilt on to people. Guilt of a split family when children are concerned, guilt of being a 'failure' within the marriage, and even guilt in no longer loving the other person. I would argue that this is especially so within the Catholic faith, where I believe it is heavily frowned upon to seek a divorce?

One should always work towards repairing a marriage, but when there's nothing left - I would say that it's always better to be single and happy, as opposed to being married and miserable.

On another note - I would argue that divorce rates these days are more due to a shift in the mentality of the new generations, rather than anything else. I know of many older couples who are very unhappy, always arguing, fighting - and for the life of me I do not know why they remain married! Security, and routine would be the 2 biggest reasons I would say - and this obviously isn't something the new generations are interested in (especially with women now in the workforce).

Realistically, what could a woman with no superannuation, no investments, no money, and a marriage with a pre-nup do at age 60? Absolutely nothing.

 

[disarray]

you can buy gold bars and gold coins etc. from the australian bullion company in pitt street sydney. walk in with the cash, walk out with the gold.

www.ausbullion.com.au

good idea about the treasure thing, very romantic, chicks love that sort of stuff

 

[Sunder]

Hmmm, I don't know about that. I'd say it was more a result of divorce going against the belief system of many devout believers - and that what this research doesn't show; is that many of these married couples may be terribly unhappy - and would perhaps be happier with a divorce!

I had thought about that, but I don't see evidence of it in the Christians I know, and I know over 600 of them, perhaps 100 "closely". (About 50ish guys I know who would confide in me if they were doing it tough).

I can also see other reasons why Christian marriages might work better. Some of them is that every few weeks, you're reminded to love selflessly, guilt tripped into loving selflessly if you prefer. But whether it's freely done or guilt tripped, the other other partner still enjoys it, and is likely to reciprocate. Also, with prayer, it means you have the opportunity to let out frustrations and things bothering you regularly rather than bottling it up. It's hard to pray honestly with another person, then go on bottling up the issue.

It's all conjecture of course. It's very hard to prove any of this.

Anyway, totally off topic now. I'm off to research diamonds next. Thanks for the perth mint tip. It looks like I can buy bullion coins or bullion bars at not much of a mark up over spot price.

 

[prawn_86]

There are 'pre-engagement' courses?

I thought that was called living together...

 

[Nyden]

There are 'pre-engagement' courses?

I thought that was called living together...

Well, I guess it might be possible that certain Christian faiths would frown upon this? I know pre-marital sex is a big no-no to at least one of em

 

[Sunder]

Well, I guess it might be possible that certain Christian faiths would frown upon this? I know pre-marital sex is a big no-no to at least one of em

Yeah, including mine. (Protestant Christian)

Statistics also show that living together before hand increases your chances of getting divorced.

Of course, the flip side of that argument is that people who don't live together before hand, are more likely to have religious convictions, and skew the statistics.

As only 3% of Australians are practicing Christians, I have my doubts as to whether they have sufficient weight to change the stats, even adding the practicing Catholics, Muslims, Jews and minority religions.

My take on it, is that people who want a trial marriage before marriage, are less certain about whether it's right for them or not, that doubt has some basis for concern.

 

[Nyden]

Yeah, including mine. (Protestant Christian)

Statistics also show that living together before hand increases your chances of getting divorced.

Of course, the flip side of that argument is that people who don't live together before hand, are more likely to have religious convictions, and skew the statistics.

As only 3% of Australians are practicing Christians, I have my doubts as to whether they have sufficient weight to change the stats, even adding the practicing Catholics, Muslims, Jews and minority religions.

My take on it, is that people who want a trial marriage before marriage, are less certain about whether it's right for them or not, that doubt has some basis for concern.

Well, I may not agree with your beliefs Sunder, but I can certainly respect how diligently you follow them Shows great discipline. Never forget to keep an open mind though.

 

[Ageo]

Ok 1st off your better off getting a bar and melting into a coin (any jeweller with the right coin mold can do this). That way you can have 1 or 2 coins. Or if you can buy some 22ct sovereigns as they float around from time to time (but you need to find them hehe).

2nd loose diamonds can be bought but it all depends on how much you wanna spend. If your not sure on where to look then you can PM me as im in jewellery industry.

The idea is fantastic but remember it could cost you more than an engagement ring but if you plan it well you could save alot of money. hope this helps.

 

[Sunder]

Thanks Nyden and Ageo,

You've both been a great help.

And thanks for the reminder that I do need to keep an open mind. A "great" way, which I believe the Christian way is, is not necessarily the only way, nor the best way.

 

[Sir Osisofliver]

Hi Sunder,

For Gold - you've been told where to look.

For Diamonds - I know a guy who sells diamonds wholesale, but he's in Brisbane and I haven't spoken to him for ten years. You could just try looking for wholesale diamond merchants in your area (remember caveat emptor and if you don't know what you are meant to be looking for cut/colour/clarity/carat - take someone who does and ask for certification).

As for the marriage proposal - congratulations!! I hope you have a lifetime of happiness together. Here's 15 years worth of married bliss condensed into a few simple rules.

*A man is never sexier to a woman than when he is doing the dishes/mopping the floor or gardening with his shirt off:casanova: Triple the sexiness rating if she hasn't asked you to do it.
*If the two of you disagree about something ask yourself the following question...Will it matter in 5 years? If the answer is yes - women are born negotiators - don't deliver ultimatums - negotiate to find a compromise.
*Find something that is intimate and sharing (that does not necessarily lead to the bedroom) that you can do for her that shows that you care and perfect that skill. (Try massage, pedicures, manicures - things like that)
*If you cannot already - learn to cook - and do it well. It's one of the skills that you will use throughout your life - you may as well be good at it. Apparently there is just something about a guy that knows his way around a kitchen that makes a woman's toes curl.
*The number one thing that most couples argue about...is money. Become well off and then you can argue about other stuff.


P.S. - yes the religious stuff sounded arrogant.

 

[sails]

Well Sunder, it looks like we can at least agree on Christian values.

Anyway, sincere congratulations on the upcoming engagement and wish you both much happiness for the future.

 

[Sunder]

Well Sunder, it looks like we can at least agree on Christian values.

Anyway, sincere congratulations on the upcoming engagement and wish you both much happiness for the future.

Like I said, I'm being presumptious that by merely booking the pre-engagement course, we're going to get married! But I do hope, and I am reasonably certain that we will get through it and still remain faithfully committed to each other by the end of the course!

Thanks for the thoughts though.

 

[mayk]

I thought these courses only existed in movies (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0762114/), but they exist in reality

Best wishes.

 

[shaunQ]

This really is forward planning, but my girlfriend and I have started talking about getting engaged soon, and we've booked in a pre-engagement course.

My view this is crazy, your plan sounds very romantic and such.. but hang on, your going to a course to decide about whether or not to get engaged, and then I guess go on something prior to the big-step, marriage.

So, you love her. Go and buy a ring and propose to her in another special way - before the course. Take a step. Take a chance. That's romantic.

If devout Christians do have a better marriage rate, then it is because of their solid commitment and respect for the sanctity of marriage. Not because they attend a course.

You both wont undertake this step lightly, the fact that you are even thinking about doing this means your committed.. So what else do you need.

What if they say to you - or her - No, you shouldn't do it. Will that be it? Would you be happy with that? If so, then maybe its a good idea otherwise frankly its weak and you should take a stand and do something you believe in, for better or worse.

Anyway, all the best to you, and let us all know how it goes in the end...!

 

[numbercruncher]

You can buy Australian gold Sovereigns often for around gold melt value .....

Heres one in perfect uncirculated condition minted in Melbourne 100 years ago (1909) for $550 .... they contain close to a 1/4 Oz of 22 carat.

http://www.monetarium.com.au/shop.asp?tid=34&mid=42&cid=65&pid=7115&product_name=SOVEREIGN.+1909.+M.+King+Edward+VII.+Choice+Uncirculated.


Ive dealt with these people loads of times so can vouch for their integrity. Infact my Gold Sovereign collection is one of my best performing investments

 

[Sunder]

If devout Christians do have a better marriage rate, then it is because of their solid commitment and respect for the sanctity of marriage. Not because they attend a course.

You both wont undertake this step lightly, the fact that you are even thinking about doing this means your committed.. So what else do you need.

What if they say to you - or her - No, you shouldn't do it. Will that be it? Would you be happy with that? If so, then maybe its a good idea otherwise frankly its weak and you should take a stand and do something you believe in, for better or worse.

Anyway, all the best to you, and let us all know how it goes in the end...!

Thanks Shaun, at least there's some areas we can agree on. I'm not saying the course is the reason for marriage sustainability - I'm saying that the dedication to the sanctity of marriage encourages more Christians to do these types of courses, which also contributes.

The course is not intended to tell either of us whether we should do it or not, but identify areas where we will most likely conflict in a marriage, and prepare ourselves for it - or even decide if we can't get over those issues.

We talked last night about popping the question. She doesn't want to be surprised... In fact, without me saying a word, she already said "Just take me to some private beach and propose there." ... So the second I say "pack swim wear, we're going sailing" she's going to know

 

[Sir Osisofliver]

We talked last night about popping the question. She doesn't want to be surprised... In fact, without me saying a word, she already said "Just take me to some private beach and propose there." ... So the second I say "pack swim wear, we're going sailing" she's going to know

Ok Sunder. I have finely tuned senses when it comes to the female mind and my spider sense is twitching. Now presumably you know her pretty well, so you'll know whether she has the sort of personality and temperament that would seek to measure your level of devotion or not.

Most women love to analyse stuff and try and read meaning out of anything. (For some reason they think that there is deeper meaning in the things we say and do - I don't know why this is the case it just happens).

She "doesn't want to be surprised - just take me to a beach and propose". Sorry Sunder to me it just smacks of a little litmus love test. Let me give you an exaggerated example....


Scene 1
Sunder and Sunderess go to beach, unpack picnic and just as the potato salad comes out Sunder says.."Well you didn't want a surprise, so here's the engagement ring, pass the coleslaw will you?" Epic Fail of Litmus love test

Scene 2
Sunder picks up Sunderess on a Friday after work (with a couple of bags already packed - Ask her Mom to pack for her) and takes her to a pristine white beach, where a large white marquee has been prepared with a bottle of French Champangne, a basket of exotic fruit and small basket with a selection of massage oils. Her favourite album plays softly in the background, and your beach hut is 50 metres away. As the sun sets over the waves you sink to one knee and propose with some well chosen words from the heart. (Borat Voice - Noice)

Guess which version she'd probably prefer?

Of course I may be completely wrong here - you know her best, but just about every woman on the planet has daydreamed about that special day that someone pops the question...so try and make it a memory that she will always cherish and makes her girlfriends jealous.


Sir O