Schapelle Corby - Innocent or Guilty?

[ZackW]

Post 2:

……………..continued

It is true that the Corbys do not come across well to the public. They are not particularly well-educated and some members of the family, such as Clinton and James, have done some dodgy things. But there would be hundreds of thousands of families with similar histories. It is just that we don't hear about them because they are not scrutinised by the media to such an extent. In the case of James, it is apparent that he broke into the house he did because he had heard that they had some connection to the drugs found in his sister's bag and was hoping to find evidence to free her. It was an utterly stupid thing to do, but that doesn't automatically translate to him being a family of drug traffickers. In fact, it suggests the opposite. And once again, the Australian police have never suggested that the Corbys are a family of traffickers, nor indeed that this incident was somehow indicative of that.

There is also the question of why anyone would import marijuana into Bali. There have been a lot of stories about the relative prices and one such is the idea that Australian pot is highly sought after in Bali due to its higher quality and would therefore fetch a higher price than in Australia. This is untrue and it has been confirmed by people in the drug trade and suppliers living in Bali. It would fetch much less in Bali than in Australia and Aceh in Indonesia has some of the world's best pot. It would be entirely uneconomical to traffic pot from Australia to Bali and totally unnecessary. It was also confirmed by a number of suppliers that they had never heard of this happening and that it was unrealistic: they wouldn't be able to maintain the supply, which would anger people. The rumours about THC content are unfounded.

To my way of thinking, all this points conclusively to Schapelle being innocent. But at the very least, it amounts to reasonable doubt. KUHAP does actually require that cases in Indonesia are proved beyond a reasonable doubt, but this standard was certainly not applied in Schapelle's circumstances. It also provides for innocent until proven guilty, but once again, this standard was not applied in Schapelle's situation. Indeed, the judges stated that she needed to prove her innocence and find evidence to support that conclusively. Irrespective of international fair trial standards, Indonesia did not actually uphold the principles and requirements of its own justice system.

In addition to this, Schapelle received a penalty far harsher than was suggested by other cases. Her penalty was actually, by far, the harshest ever for such a situation. For example, a woman who tried to import 15.22kgs of marijuana was sentenced to 15 years while another who tried to import 5+ kgs of cocaine was also sentenced to 15 years. Comparable cases to Schapelle's suggested she should only have received 3-4 years.

In Schapelle's case, there are a number of issues that are concerning from a human rights perspective. First of all, there is the specific issue of her innocence. However, second, even if you don't believe in her innocence, surely the above points raise questions about the situation and the legitimacy of the trial. Third, there are issues regarding the fairness of her trial, which also have a broader context relating to the Indonesian justice system. Fourth, there is the question of why the media has orchestrated such an enormous smear campaign full of half-truths. All of the information I have given is confirmable from official records. It is not a case of my word against anyone elses.

Schapelle's situation is just one human rights issue in the world. There are many. Not a day goes by when I don't feel the burden of the fact that there are too many to deal with. But nobody can address every single one - each one has supporters who feel that a particular issue is important and deserving of their time. It isn't a matter of one being more important than another; it is a matter of personal passion or interest. I took an interest in this one because of its complexity and the relevance to our region, just as I have an interest in others for other reasons. I wish I could address them all, but there aren't enough hours in the day.

What do I think happened with Schapelle? I have thought about that on many occasions. There are a few theories that are equally viable: that she was the inadvertent victim in a drug transportation operation involving baggage handlers; that she was set up by Bali customs to be bribed; that she was a decoy while other drugs were going through Bali airport. I can't answer with any certainty which one it is. But that is precisely the point: it isn't up to the accused to come up with conclusive evidence about what happened; it is enough to demonstrate reasonable doubt as to what happened. Which has been done in this case. And in addition to that, the Corbys actually did everything they could to prove her innocence, but were denied the ability to do that.

 

[ZackW]

This is the reality: gross abuse of human rights, and a racist/political sentence.

Subsequently we have had 4 years of opinion management to extract the government from the hook of public opinion, thus maintaining its relationship with Indonesia:



We have even reached the point at which Decembers global protest, the first one for an Australian in the history of the nation, was completely hidden from the Australian public:



No wonder there are so many brainwashed sickies on here. They have bought into every smear they have been fed, completely forgetting the reality which Schu discusses above.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

This is the reality: gross abuse of human rights, and a racist/political sentence.

Subsequently we have had 4 years of opinion management to extract the government from the hook of public opinion, thus maintaining its relationship with Indonesia:


We have even reached the point at which Decembers global protest, the first one for an Australian in the history of the nation, was completely hidden from the Australian public:


No wonder there are so many brainwashed sickies on here. They have bought into every smear they have been fed, completely forgetting the reality which Schu discusses above.

Do you have anything new to contribute mate, this is getting a bit boring.

Its a forum not a tumble dryer.

gg

 

[Julia]

Its a forum not a tumble dryer.

gg

 

[Patsy]

This is the reality: gross abuse of human rights, and a racist/political sentence.

Subsequently we have had 4 years of opinion management to extract the government from the hook of public opinion, thus maintaining its relationship with Indonesia:

We have even reached the point at which Decembers global protest, the first one for an Australian in the history of the nation, was completely hidden from the Australian public:

No wonder there are so many brainwashed sickies on here. They have bought into every smear they have been fed, completely forgetting the reality which Schu discusses above.

I am not concerned about others on this site. Generally speaking there are a lot of flawed ideas based on lack of knowledge of basic principals of law and a general lack of knowledge of the case by the writers. Which in some instances seem to be followed by various attempts to maintain what is perceived to be the dominate status quo. It doesn't anger, irritate or threaten me.

I think a lot of people have used Schapelle as a scapegoat to express their anger at media saturation, or drug smugglers or her family or whatever, and have been unable to separate the issues.

There is no way in the world Schapelle presents any threat to any society and her harsh sentence is unwarranted.

I agree completely with what you are saying ZackW. This case is about the gross abuse of basic human rights to obtain justice. It is a great pity that the Australian Media are either too stupid, too scared or too complacent to produce nothing other than material designed for the "entertainment" market. [Channel 7 term used to describe its position in the defamation case].

 

[suehprom1]

GG my contacts in Jakarta have an interest in Sue. Sue's real name is Harry ####### and resides in New York. His ID Suehprom is Morpheus spelt in reverse which is the ID of another free Schapelle campaigner. Harry also uses the ID, 'Dadotara' on other Free Schapelle Campaign sites according to my source. They're popping up everywhere!!

Ok ColB, give your self a star. Harry from NY. My opinion is the same. I believe Schapelle is innocent, received an unfair trial due to a predetermination by the judge and a flawed investigation. Former Police Chief Sugiarto said so himself.

As far as the M15 chatter is that supposed to be directed to me? Clarify would you.

 

[ColB]

Originally posted by Harry in Drag SuehProm:

Ok ColB, give your self a star. Harry from NY. My opinion is the same. I believe Schapelle is innocent, received an unfair trial due to a predetermination by the judge and a flawed investigation. Former Police Chief Sugiarto said so himself.

As far as the M15 chatter is that supposed to be directed to me? Clarify would you.

Harry, if you read my posts you'll find nowhere where I mention M15 so I think your question is misdirected.

Gotta go, have to go and put the Lycra on and go for a ride into Carlton for my Coffee!

 

[knocker]

Do you have anything new to contribute mate, this is getting a bit boring.

Its a forum not a tumble dryer.

gg

lol zacko is all whacked out

 

[Patsy]

My contacts in Jakarta are getting quite upset about this thread. They are a proud people and do not want to lose face.
gg

Extract from an article in the Australian printed yesterday.

"Observers rely on very narrow indicators to measure Indonesia's democratic progress, things like press freedom and ratification of international human rights instruments, but what we should really be looking at is the strength of the rule of law in this country and whether the Government is serious about reforming the police, the judiciary and the military intelligence. There needs to be clear regulation in this area:"

Well Garbled Dumnut, guess your contacts are going to be even more peeved with this then.

 

[nunthewiser]

Dear chief inspector Zack

can you please ping me and give my location and provider too as i seem to have lost my way home after new years .

any help would be appreciated

p.s wanna buy a " Dopers do it best " tshirt ?

on special to ASF members this month only

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Extract from an article in the Australian printed yesterday.

"Observers rely on very narrow indicators to measure Indonesia's democratic progress, things like press freedom and ratification of international human rights instruments, but what we should really be looking at is the strength of the rule of law in this country and whether the Government is serious about reforming the police, the judiciary and the military intelligence. There needs to be clear regulation in this area:"

Well Garbled Dumnut, guess your contacts are going to be even more peeved with this then.

Patsy darling , you used call me that in the seventies you downanddirty thang you.

Edwina sends her love and sniffles.

Working class drugs don't work.

gg

 

[nunthewiser]

Be careful GG, zack and his mate are installing listening and tracking devices into our boogie boards as we speak!

 

[Canadianguy]

You're Missing Something

Hello from Canada

I think you guys are missing something important.

Some of you want Schapelle to rot in jail? Fine. They keep her in jail until she's 45 or so.

What do you think is going to happen then? She's going to come back to Australia with no skills, no education, and poor health.

You're creating a permanent welfare case, my friends. She's going to wind up living on the dole, and she'll probably be in and out of hospitals for the rest of her life. By the time she dies, the Australian government will have spent over a million dollars on her.

That's what long term incarceration in an Asian prison is going to do to her. They don't have educational programs over there.

If you don't care about her, at least have some compassion for the taxpayers!

We are talking about a non-violent, first time offender. Don't you think it would be a good idea to get her out now, bring her home, put her to work?

Warehousing people like her is not the answer.

Canadianguy

 

[ColB]

Originally posted by NunTheWiser:

"Dear chief inspector Zack

can you please ping me and give my location and provider too as i seem to have lost my way home after new years .

any help would be appreciated

p.s wanna buy a " Dopers do it best " tshirt ?

on special to ASF members this month only."

Some people think this thread as boring.
Some people think this thread is like a tumble dryer.
Some people think this thread goes around in circles.

I think it is quite entertaining at times listening to some of the Pro Corby paranoid schizophrenics push their case but they always get gazumped by the intelligent posters like GG, Pilots and this latest classic by Nunthewiser.

Anyway my sources have come up with another gem of ZackW on youtube.

Its called leave Schapelle alone!

Enjoy http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=LWSjUe0FyxQ

 

[nunthewiser]

Re: You're Missing Something

Hello from Canada

I think you guys are missing something important.

Some of you want Schapelle to rot in jail? Fine. They keep her in jail until she's 45 or so.

What do you think is going to happen then? She's going to come back to Australia with no skills, no education, and poor health.

You're creating a permanent welfare case, my friends. She's going to wind up living on the dole, and she'll probably be in and out of hospitals for the rest of her life. By the time she dies, the Australian government will have spent over a million dollars on her.

That's what long term incarceration in an Asian prison is going to do to her. They don't have educational programs over there.

If you don't care about her, at least have some compassion for the taxpayers!

We are talking about a non-violent, first time offender. Don't you think it would be a good idea to get her out now, bring her home, put her to work?

Warehousing people like her is not the answer.

Canadianguy

Hey thats a fair post actually and admit it holds weight

but the way i see things too is the old "do the crime do the time " motto also

the fact is that she was silly enough to tread on a harsher countrys toes and now has to pay the price

but again i reiterate what you have stated in your post is a fair comment

avaniceday

 

[ColB]

Originally Posted by CanadianGuy:

"...You're creating a permanent welfare case, my friends. She's going to wind up living on the dole, and she'll probably be in and out of hospitals for the rest of her life. By the time she dies, the Australian government will have spent over a million dollars on her..."

I think you'll find Schapelle will make a million dollars out of her book and all the media interviews etc etc..

Funny when you think about it. It will in a sense be Corby's revenge to take back from the media (money) their alleged contribution to her denial of freedom today.

ZackW will be there waiting with open arms for her

 

[Canadianguy]

I think you'll find Schapelle will make a million dollars out of her book and all the media interviews etc etc..
ZackW will be there waiting with open arms for her

ColB:

Schapelle's book is subject to Australian Proceeds of Crime legislation. She is not allowed to collect anything from the proceeds, and I suspect media interviews work the same way.

Nunthewiser:

Ever hear of Mandatory Minimums? It was a policy introduced by several US jurisdictions way back in the 1980's - harsh minimum sentences for drugs. It turned into a social policy disaster - broken families, abandoned and damaged kids.....in one state (Michigan, if I remember correctly) so many people were locked up that the budget for prisons began to exceed the budget for education. And after 10-15 years of this, the laws were changed because it just wasn't working.

Indonesia has been handing out life sentences and executing people for drugs for years. So how is their War on Drugs going? You tell me. Are their policies doing any good? I'm going to guess that the answer is no.

Drugs is a complex problem. It's a medical problem, a poverty problem, an education problem, and a law enforcement problem. You need an approach that covers all the bases. Locking people up and throwing away the key is for violent drug lords. For your typical low level drug mule, there are better ways to deal with the situation.

Never mind whether Schapelle is guilty or innocent. Look at the larger picture.

Candianguy

 

[nunthewiser]

ColB:

Schapelle's book is subject to Australian Proceeds of Crime legislation. She is not allowed to collect anything from the proceeds, and I suspect media interviews work the same way.

Nunthewiser:

Ever hear of Mandatory Minimums? It was a policy introduced by several US jurisdictions way back in the 1980's - harsh minimum sentences for drugs. It turned into a social policy disaster - broken families, abandoned and damaged kids.....in one state (Michigan, if I remember correctly) so many people were locked up that the budget for prisons began to exceed the budget for education. And after 10-15 years of this, the laws were changed because it just wasn't working.

Indonesia has been handing out life sentences and executing people for drugs for years. So how is their War on Drugs going? You tell me. Are their policies doing any good? I'm going to guess that the answer is no.

Drugs is a complex problem. It's a medical problem, a poverty problem, an education problem, and a law enforcement problem. You need an approach that covers all the bases. Locking people up and throwing away the key is for violent drug lords. For your typical low level drug mule, there are better ways to deal with the situation.

Never mind whether Schapelle is guilty or innocent. Look at the larger picture.

Candianguy

I am not here to debate whether a countrys laws and sentencing is harsh or not , personally couldnt care.The fact of the matter IS , ppl know there is a death penalty , ppl know indo deals harshly with trafickers of drugs , so with all this knowledge available and they still persist in playing russian roullette with said laws, well they wear the penalty if they get caught.......simple really .

 

[nunthewiser]

p.s

re proceeds of crime

i think one will find there is ways of scooting round this when it comes to literature ........... ask chopper to help corby about this matter

 

[ColB]

Originally posted by CanadianGuy:

ColB:

Schapelle's book is subject to Australian Proceeds of Crime legislation. She is not allowed to collect anything from the proceeds, and I suspect media interviews work the same way.

I’m well aware of Australian Proceeds of Crime legislation. It may not be as much of an issue as you think given she was charged and convicted in Indonesia. Regardless, a book will be forthcoming and the remuneration may not be as obvious as a cheque in the bank. If all else fails she could do Ralph or homegirls magazine.

Nunthewiser:

Ever hear of Mandatory Minimums? It was a policy introduced by several US jurisdictions way back in the 1980's - harsh minimum sentences for drugs. It turned into a social policy disaster - broken families, abandoned and damaged kids.....in one state (Michigan, if I remember correctly) so many people were locked up that the budget for prisons began to exceed the budget for education. And after 10-15 years of this, the laws were changed because it just wasn't working.

So let’s look at the BIG PICTURE. When its all said and done it was about money, Government not wanting to or unable to spend. As for your social policy disaster, broken families, abandoned and damaged kids that’s what can happen when anyone goes to jail for whatever offence. Why don’t we just legalize drug use. For that matter, why not legalize burglary that could save a lot of the courts and Police time as well. Oh, they’re only dope smokers you’ll say, the dope smokers that break into homes to support their habit, the dope smokers that drive vehicles when they shouldn’t, the dope smoker who becomes violent and irrational after too many bongs.

Indonesia has been handing out life sentences and executing people for drugs for years. So how is their War on Drugs going? You tell me. Are their policies doing any good? I'm going to guess that the answer is no.

My guess is Indonesia’s drug policy is reasonably effective. Those that have been executed or have life sentences are no longer peddling drugs and for those that have a brain will think twice about taking drugs into Bali. Seems to be working!!

Drugs is a complex problem. It's a medical problem, a poverty problem, an education problem, and a law enforcement problem. You need an approach that covers all the bases. Locking people up and throwing away the key is for violent drug lords. For your typical low level drug mule, there are better ways to deal with the situation.

Drugs is a CHOICE problem not a poverty problem, not a medical problem or a law enforcement problem. The only merit in your last paragraph is that Education has to be a main part of the key. They have drug awareness programs in the school environment in most places so once having been exposed to the health dangers etc it becomes a matter of CHOICE. A ‘low level drug mule’ is still a part of the serious crime of Drug Trafficking. 4 PLUS KILOS is not low level no matter how much you try and water it down.