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That's because he did not say it. He said;
If you want any credibility you might at least try to get your facts right on your first post
Schapelle Corby - Innocent or Guilty?
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That's because he did not say it. He said;
If you want any credibility you might at least try to get your facts right on your first post
In answer to your question "What would have been the go for legal advice / negotiation?"
any lawyer with experience in these matters would have looked at the evidence and seen that there was no way they could prove Schapelle's innocence. There was no overwhelming evidence to submit and there were no witnesses or affidavidts or other evidence supporting her innocence. There was only people saying 'I believe she is innocent' and Schapelle herself proclaiming innocence.
Unfortunately, this doesn't make for a strong legal case .. so given that there wasn't any tangible evidence in her favour, her lawyers should have kept it out of the media, kept it low profile as possible; and called for the judges to take into consideration her previously unblemished character, no known offences, and done things respectfully and diplomatically. Not turn it into a three ringed circus. Bearing in mind that even when you have overwhelming evidence to support your innocence and a government fully backing you, it still offers no guarantees.
In Schapelle's case, the outcome would not have been as dramatic if everyone involved had not made it so dramatic.
The sad thing is that now it's too late to turn the clock back and do it the way it should have been done. Now Schapelle has to face the reality of a 20 year sentence when others who have been detained with greater quantities than her, have been sentenced far less.
Lessons to be learnt here folks. Certainly the issue of foreign internment is a complex one and seldom has much to do about innocence and guilt.
any lawyer with experience in these matters would have looked at the evidence and seen that there was no way they could prove Schapelle's innocence. There was no overwhelming evidence to submit and there were no witnesses or affidavidts or other evidence supporting her innocence. There was only people saying 'I believe she is innocent' and Schapelle herself proclaiming innocence.
Unfortunately, this doesn't make for a strong legal case .. so given that there wasn't any tangible evidence in her favour, her lawyers should have kept it out of the media, kept it low profile as possible; and called for the judges to take into consideration her previously unblemished character, no known offences, and done things respectfully and diplomatically. Not turn it into a three ringed circus. Bearing in mind that even when you have overwhelming evidence to support your innocence and a government fully backing you, it still offers no guarantees.
In Schapelle's case, the outcome would not have been as dramatic if everyone involved had not made it so dramatic.
The sad thing is that now it's too late to turn the clock back and do it the way it should have been done. Now Schapelle has to face the reality of a 20 year sentence when others who have been detained with greater quantities than her, have been sentenced far less.
Lessons to be learnt here folks. Certainly the issue of foreign internment is a complex one and seldom has much to do about innocence and guilt.
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i agree entirely kay..
great to see your contributions and lessons learned for corby imho..
great to see your contributions and lessons learned for corby imho..
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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Thanks Kay sounds like a bit more realistic approach
Out of interest do you think any of the Australian agency's or embassy people would give any advice along these lines or do they just play a straight bat?
Oh, that's ok then. Let's just leave her there for being a 'touch naive'.
Unbelievable. Can't you read between lines? Don't you understand how many people have made a great deal of money out of her misery? How much money there was to be made by be being associated with her whilst she was all over the news? Just another bunch of people using her for personal gain. Not too dis-similar to those sickies on here who post lies and smears about her for self satisfaction.
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Yes at best she is a touch naive...but at worse she is a criminal,who by our standards got a harsh sentence.
The court found that she was a criminal !
The court found that she was a criminal !
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zackw
cant you allow any other opinion? surely your rational enough to observe?
"Unbelievable. Can't you read between lines? Don't you understand how many people have made a great deal of money out of her misery? How much money there was to be made by be being associated with her whilst she was all over the news? Just another bunch of people using her for personal gain. Not too dis-similar to those sickies on here who post lies and smears about her for self satisfaction."
re money making.. its obscene imho that the family allows it, supports it and plays into it..
this is the worst case i have seen, i agree entirely with you zack that the entire family offers no support and they are making a joke of the whole affair with their behaviors in the media..
cant you allow any other opinion? surely your rational enough to observe?
"Unbelievable. Can't you read between lines? Don't you understand how many people have made a great deal of money out of her misery? How much money there was to be made by be being associated with her whilst she was all over the news? Just another bunch of people using her for personal gain. Not too dis-similar to those sickies on here who post lies and smears about her for self satisfaction."
re money making.. its obscene imho that the family allows it, supports it and plays into it..
this is the worst case i have seen, i agree entirely with you zack that the entire family offers no support and they are making a joke of the whole affair with their behaviors in the media..
Stormin_Norman
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go photoshop. its amazing what they can do with it these days.
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Yes. Especially sister Mercedes. Although I suppose she has to lay out a lot to get extra comforts and privileges for her sister in jail.
chops_a_must
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Three words, "deal with it".
It happens with every crime, in every country, in almost every case.
Oh, that's ok then. Let's just leave her there for being a 'touch naive'.
Unbelievable. Can't you read between lines? Don't you understand how many people have made a great deal of money out of her misery? How much money there was to be made by be being associated with her whilst she was all over the news? Just another bunch of people using her for personal gain. Not too dis-similar to those sickies on here who post lies and smears about her for self satisfaction.
How much has the sister made out of her Zacko
Stormin_Norman
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if she looked like renee lawence noone would care.
Zacko, the sick people that keep posting lies about her are bad yes I agree with you, what about the video one we see every day about the seven facts, that six of the facts are WRONG, boy that hole is getting deeper zack, better start to prop up the sides soon.
What a disappointment FPSS turned out to be, just when you thought they would solve all your troubles.
What a disappointment FPSS turned out to be, just when you thought they would solve all your troubles.
In answer to your question "Out of interest do you think any of the Australian agency's or embassy people would give any advice along these lines or do they just play a straight bat?"
The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade [DFAT] provide assistance to Australians along the basis of their Standard Consular Charter. They tend not to get involved in legal matters because they are 'invited guests' of countries and most of the work they do is in relation to bilateral and trade agreements. Consular Services are kept quite busy with Australians having visas problems, travel problems etc... but the actual criminal cases that require consular support aren't all that high in comparrison to the more broader services; and the services provided in consular support are strictly given to ensure the prisoner has access to other services. DFAT are not able to recommend those services for a range of reasons but ultimately comes down to liability. This in my view needs further investigation because there are plenty of credible and effective lawyers who have experience in international judicial process, cultural awareness...etc... and many do work pro bono..... or through government funding [if the prisoner isn't rich] and know how things ought to be done, as opposed to just money grabbing. It would not be too difficult to have this list made up, and distributed so people know what they are getting.
My advice to families is that you may have a great family lawyer who can do your personal legal issues but don't think that he is the best man/woman for the job when it comes to foreign judiciaries. It's a whole new ball game.
Engaging the right legal support can mean the difference between a four year sentence and a 20 year sentence as we've seen in the Corby case. Unfortunately, many families get caught out because they don't have the $$$$ it takes to secure good lawyers.
Contrary to what has been said in this forum, the Corby's weren't cashed up and hence why they ended up with poor representation.
Proper legal representation should be affordable and available to everyone but sadly it isn't.
I'm glad to say now however, that DFAT usually inform either the prisoner or their family that FPSS is able to connect families with good representations and hence many of our cases go alot smoother.
I don't dispute that if people break the law they should be punished, but the punishment ought to be fair and transparent.
The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade [DFAT] provide assistance to Australians along the basis of their Standard Consular Charter. They tend not to get involved in legal matters because they are 'invited guests' of countries and most of the work they do is in relation to bilateral and trade agreements. Consular Services are kept quite busy with Australians having visas problems, travel problems etc... but the actual criminal cases that require consular support aren't all that high in comparrison to the more broader services; and the services provided in consular support are strictly given to ensure the prisoner has access to other services. DFAT are not able to recommend those services for a range of reasons but ultimately comes down to liability. This in my view needs further investigation because there are plenty of credible and effective lawyers who have experience in international judicial process, cultural awareness...etc... and many do work pro bono..... or through government funding [if the prisoner isn't rich] and know how things ought to be done, as opposed to just money grabbing. It would not be too difficult to have this list made up, and distributed so people know what they are getting.
My advice to families is that you may have a great family lawyer who can do your personal legal issues but don't think that he is the best man/woman for the job when it comes to foreign judiciaries. It's a whole new ball game.
Engaging the right legal support can mean the difference between a four year sentence and a 20 year sentence as we've seen in the Corby case. Unfortunately, many families get caught out because they don't have the $$$$ it takes to secure good lawyers.
Contrary to what has been said in this forum, the Corby's weren't cashed up and hence why they ended up with poor representation.
Proper legal representation should be affordable and available to everyone but sadly it isn't.
I'm glad to say now however, that DFAT usually inform either the prisoner or their family that FPSS is able to connect families with good representations and hence many of our cases go alot smoother.
I don't dispute that if people break the law they should be punished, but the punishment ought to be fair and transparent.
chops_a_must
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CUT THE CRAP FPSS!!
If I wanted Tom Percy on my counsel, I would need some enormous bucks. They may not have paid for him, but to say they had poor representation with him there is complete bull****.
Well then Stormin, you seem to me to be making a statement that it was a common fact that half the pot smokers in Queensland bought their MJ from the Corby's at some stage!?
That's good mate!!...now go and round up ten of these customers [shouldn't be hard to achieve].. and then go to the Queensland police and have them sign a "Stat Dec" that this is/was actually true...and then the matter can be put to rest for good and we can all go do something else!!
How about it Norm?BTW, hydro marijuana is grown in a controlled environment and it doesn't make any difference whether it's grown in Australia, Germany or Botswana...it's going to be the same if the growing procedure is the same! So, are you saying that the Indonesians are too dumb to grow their own?? Especially since it is a well known fact that Indonesia is a recognised drug exporting nation...and know more about drug manufacture / cultivation than most others on the planet!
nulla nulla
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Thats a little bit like saying "All t1ts are the same, once you've seen one set, you've seen the lot". The reality is they are all different although they are basically similar.
Dope is the same. The seeds are the key and different quality dope produces different quality seed. The growing proceedure, hydroponic or otherwise, only determines the conditions and manner in which the plants are cultivated and does little to determine the quality (for lack of a better word to descibe a narcotic). The botanist of the world could probably explain it better, but it probably comes back to the genetic make up of the dope, in the seeds.
Whether dope is grown hydroponically in Bali or otherwise, is not the issue in this case. Travellers to Bali see plenty of warnings of the perils of bringing drugs into the country. If you ignore the warnings, are caught, tried and convicted, you must expect to suffer the consequences of your actions. Making a "crying" circus for the media does little to invoke sympathy in the judical system of the sovereign country involved.
Dope is the same. The seeds are the key and different quality dope produces different quality seed. The growing proceedure, hydroponic or otherwise, only determines the conditions and manner in which the plants are cultivated and does little to determine the quality (for lack of a better word to descibe a narcotic). The botanist of the world could probably explain it better, but it probably comes back to the genetic make up of the dope, in the seeds.
Whether dope is grown hydroponically in Bali or otherwise, is not the issue in this case. Travellers to Bali see plenty of warnings of the perils of bringing drugs into the country. If you ignore the warnings, are caught, tried and convicted, you must expect to suffer the consequences of your actions. Making a "crying" circus for the media does little to invoke sympathy in the judical system of the sovereign country involved.
See this is where ignorance comes into play....and why there are so many misconceptions with the Corby case. At no time was Tom Percy legally engaged to represent Schapelle Corby.
Her legal representatives were:
Lily Sri Rahaya Lubis and Erwin Siregar [Indonesia]
Robin Tampoe [Australia] - no longer practicing law.
Advisor: Vasu Rasiah, a Sri Lankan who had no legal training.
After the case failed Hotman Hutapea was engaged briefly. He did not present critical evidence in the case. He was merely there to conclude the case so that the Australian - Indonesian relationship could resume.
I'm not arguing guilt / innocence of Schapelle Corby... so there's really no need for people to become so inflamed or outraged. But there is a great deal about this case that people weren't aware of because of all the distractions surrounding the case; ie: family in the news, best friends selling stories..... etc....
among these are assumptions you have made that Tom Percy represented Schapelle when he did not!
Her legal representatives were:
Lily Sri Rahaya Lubis and Erwin Siregar [Indonesia]
Robin Tampoe [Australia] - no longer practicing law.
Advisor: Vasu Rasiah, a Sri Lankan who had no legal training.
After the case failed Hotman Hutapea was engaged briefly. He did not present critical evidence in the case. He was merely there to conclude the case so that the Australian - Indonesian relationship could resume.
I'm not arguing guilt / innocence of Schapelle Corby... so there's really no need for people to become so inflamed or outraged. But there is a great deal about this case that people weren't aware of because of all the distractions surrounding the case; ie: family in the news, best friends selling stories..... etc....
among these are assumptions you have made that Tom Percy represented Schapelle when he did not!
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Perhaps we should have a poll, "was Lindy Chamberlain guilty".
A year or two after the event, - given the one-sided press - I'm guessing you'd have had 66% (at least) saying guilty.
First lesson, I'm guessin, is not to believe what you read in the press, especially the commercial press.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azaria_Chamberlain_disappearance
A year or two after the event, - given the one-sided press - I'm guessing you'd have had 66% (at least) saying guilty.
First lesson, I'm guessin, is not to believe what you read in the press, especially the commercial press.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azaria_Chamberlain_disappearance
