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Christine Nixon: "Eight in compact sports Car, not Illegal"

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wallyt99

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Ms Nixon said so long as all of the car's seat belts were being used, overloading the vehicle with people was not a crime.

"No, it's not an offence,'' she told Radio 3AW.

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"It's a matter for the driver to see whether they can drive properly.

"In fact it's the number of seat belts. I think it's four or something in this car, and if those people had the seatbelts on, no, it's not an offence.

"It's just the technical part of the law.
Click to expand...


http://www.theage.com.au/national/h...le-to-be-in-car-says-nixon-20081029-5aph.html




This can not be serious????? To think, all those times when we had someone in the boot, or unrestrained in the back of the Pano it was LEGAL!

Regardless.....what a moron this woman is.
 
wallyt99 said:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/h...le-to-be-in-car-says-nixon-20081029-5aph.html




This can not be serious????? To think, all those times when we had someone in the boot, or unrestrained in the back of the Pano it was LEGAL!

Regardless.....what a moron this woman is.
Click to expand...

Funny, I was not aware that seat belts were fitted in the boot.

If each person has a (legally fitted) seat belt on I do not see the problem, or am I missing something.

Is she a moron for that or do you have some other reason or take on the matter?
 
What Nixon is saying is that if a person sat on someone's lap and the seatbelt went over both passengers, they have not technically broken the law. Since they are wearing a restraint.

She wasn't saying it was a clever thing to do.
 
fimmwolf said:
What Nixon is saying is that if a person sat on someone's lap and the seatbelt went over both passengers, they have not technically broken the law. Since they are wearing a restraint.
Click to expand...


It is illegal to be strapped with the same seat belt with child on your lap, but must admit didn’t hear specifically if legal/illegal about persons of equal stature.

If this is not illegal, could we go 3 or 4 under 1 belt?

This could be advertised as CO2 saving alternative to boost dwindling car sales.
 
It is illegal to be strapped with the same seat belt with child on your lap, but must admit didn’t hear specifically if legal/illegal about persons of equal stature.
Click to expand...

In that case, maybe I'm the one misinterpreting what she's saying.

If what she is saying is: a four seatbelt car can have 20 people in it, so long as four people have their seatbelts on, the I'd have to say that is quite bizarre.
 
I think its as long as all the seatbelts are being used. Additional ppl do not have to wear them or double strap.
 
In my experience it has been known for 3AW to load questions and to missquote in the name of sensationalisation. Would doubt very much that Ms Nixon would intend what has come out in this instance.
 
moXJO said:
I think its as long as all the seatbelts are being used. Additional ppl do not have to wear them or double strap.
Click to expand...

Yup, that's the law. If there are no seat belts fitted, (and they were never fitted) then you can drive legally without wearing one.
 
Try this. It's the full Victorian Regs.

---------------

Victoria Government Gazette P 2 28 October 1999

PART 16””RULES FOR PERSONS TRAVELLING IN OR ON VEHICLES

263. Application of Part to persons in or on trams
This Part, except rule 269(1), does not apply to a person in or on a tram.
Note Rule 269(1) prohibits a person getting off, or out of, a moving vehicle.

264. Wearing of seatbelts by drivers

(1) The driver of a motor vehicle that is moving, or is stationary but not parked,
must comply with this rule if the driver’s seating position is fitted with a seatbelt.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
Note Driver is defined in rule 16, motor vehicle is defined in the Road Safety Act 1986,
and park is defined in the dictionary.
(2) The driver must wear the seatbelt properly adjusted and fastened unless the
driver is””
(a) reversing the vehicle; or
(b) exempt from wearing a seatbelt under rule 267.
Note Rule 267 provides exemptions from wearing seatbelts.


265. Wearing of seatbelts by passengers 16 years old, or older

(1) A passenger in or on a motor vehicle that is moving, or is stationary but not parked, must comply with this rule if the passenger is 16 years old, or older.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
Note Motor vehicle is defined in the Road Safety Act 1986, and park is defined in the
dictionary.
(2) The passenger must occupy a seating position fitted with a seatbelt if””
(a) there is a seating position fitted with a seatbelt that is not already occupied by someone else who is not exempt from wearing a seatbelt;
and
(b) the passenger is not exempt from wearing a seatbelt under rule 267.
(3) If the passenger occupies a seating position fitted with a seatbelt, the passenger must wear the seatbelt properly adjusted and fastened unless the passenger is exempt from wearing a seatbelt under rule 267.
(4) If the motor vehicle has 2 or more rows of seats, the passenger must not sit in the front row of seats unless””
(a) the passenger is occupying a seating position fitted with a seatbelt; or
(b) there is not a seating position available for the passenger in another
row of seats; or
(c) the passenger is permitted to sit in the front row of seats under
rule 267.


266. Wearing of seatbelts by passengers under 16 years old

(1) The driver of a motor vehicle (except a bus or motor bike) that is moving, or is stationary but not parked, must ensure that this rule is complied with for each passenger in or on the vehicle who is under 16 years old.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
Note Bus and motor vehicle are defined in the Road Safety Act 1986, and motor bike
and park are defined in the dictionary.
(2) If the passenger is under 1 year old, and not exempt from wearing a seatbelt under rule 267, the passenger must be restrained in a suitable approved child restraint that is properly fastened and adjusted, unless the driver is exempt from this subrule under subrule (5).
Note Approved child restraint is defined in subrule (7).
(3) If the passenger is at least 1 year old but under 16 years old, and not exempt from wearing a seatbelt under rule 267, the passenger must be restrained in a suitable approved child restraint that is properly fastened and adjusted, or occupy a seating position fitted with a suitable seatbelt and wear the seatbelt properly adjusted and fastened, if a suitable approved child restraint, or a seating position fitted with a suitable seatbelt, is available in the motor vehicle for the passenger.
(4) If the motor vehicle has 2 or more rows of seats, the passenger must not be in the front row of seats unless the passenger is restrained in a suitable approved child restraint or occupying a seating position fitted with a seatbelt.
(5) The driver of a public minibus or taxi is exempt from subrule (2) in relation to
a passenger if””
(a) there is no suitable approved child restraint available in the minibus or taxi for the passenger; and
(b) if the minibus or taxi has 2 or more rows of seats””the passenger is not in the front row of seats.
Note Public minibus and taxi are defined in the dictionary.
Victoria Government Gazette P 2 28 October 1999 201
(6) For this rule””
(a) an approved child restraint is available in the motor vehicle for a passenger if an approved child restraint is fitted in the vehicle and is not occupied by someone else under 16 years old; and
(b) a seating position (whether or not fitted with a seatbelt) is available in the vehicle for a passenger if it is not occupied by someone else under 16 years old; and
(c) an approved child restraint or seatbelt is suitable for a passenger if it is suitable for restraining, or to be worn by the passenger.
(7) In this rule””
approved child restraint means a child restraint approved by the Corporation by notice published in the Government Gazette.


267. Exemptions from wearing seatbelts

(1) A person is exempt from wearing a seatbelt if the Corporation has certified that it would be impracticable, undesirable or inexpedient for the person to wear a seatbelt.
(2) A person in or on a motor vehicle is exempt from wearing a seatbelt if””
(a) the person is engaged in the door-to-door delivery or collection of goods, or in the collection of waste or garbage, and is required to get in or out of the vehicle, or on or off the vehicle, at frequent intervals; and
(b) the vehicle is not travelling over 25 kilometres per hour.
Note Motor vehicle is defined in the Road Safety Act 1986.
(3) A person is exempt from wearing a seatbelt if””
(a) the person (or, for a passenger, the driver of the vehicle in which the person is a passenger) is carrying a certificate signed by a registered medical practitioner certifying that because of””
(i) medical unfitness; or
(ii) physical disability - it is impracticable, undesirable or inexpedient that the person wear a
seatbelt; and
(b) the person is complying with the conditions (if any) stated in the
certificate; and
(c) the certificate shows the date on which the exemption expires.
(4) However, a person is not exempt under subrule (3) from wearing a seatbelt if the person (or, for a passenger, the driver of the vehicle in which the person is a passenger) does not immediately produce the certificate mentioned in the subrule for inspection when a police officer or authorised person asks the person (or the driver) whether the person is exempt from wearing a seatbelt.
Note Authorised person and police officer are defined in the dictionary.
(5) A passenger in a police or emergency vehicle is exempt from wearing a seatbelt.
Note Emergency vehicle and police vehicle are defined in the dictionary.


268. How persons must travel in or on a motor vehicle

(1) A person must not travel in or on a part of a motor vehicle that is not a part designed primarily for the carriage of passengers or goods.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
Note Motor vehicle is defined in the Road Safety Act 1986.
(2) A person must not travel in or on a part of a motor vehicle that is a part designed primarily for the carriage of goods unless the person is -
(a) seated in a properly constructed and secure seat appropriate for the size and weight of the occupant; and
(b) restrained with a properly adjusted and fastened seatbelt.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
(3) A person must not travel in or on a motor vehicle with any part of the person’s body outside a window or door of the vehicle, unless the person is the driver of the vehicle and is giving a hand signal -
(a) for changing direction to the right in accordance with rule 50; or
(b) for stopping or slowing in accordance with rule 55.
Penalty: 2 penalty units.
(4) The driver of a motor vehicle (except a bus) must not drive with a passenger if any part of the passenger’s body is outside a window or door of the vehicle.
Penalty: 2 penalty units.
Note Bus is defined in the Road Safety Act 1986.
Victoria Government Gazette P 2 28 October 1999 203
(5) This rule does not apply to a person who is -
(a) in or on a police or emergency vehicle; or
(b) on a motor bike; or
(c) engaged in the door-to-door delivery or collection of goods, or in the collection of waste or garbage, in or on a motor vehicle that is not travelling over 25 kilometres per hour.
Note Emergency vehicle, motor bike, and police vehicle are defined in the dictionary.
(6) This rule also does not apply to a person if -
(a) the Corporation has by notice in writing exempted the person from this rule and the person is complying with the conditions (if any) of the exemption; or
(b) the Corporation has by notice in writing exempted the vehicle the person is driving from this rule.
(7) The driver of a motor vehicle must not carry a child under the age of 16 years in or on a part of the vehicle which is primarily designed for the carriage of goods unless the child is -
(a) seated in a properly constructed and secure seat; and
(b) restrained by a seatbelt or child restraint suitable for the child’s mass and size.
Penalty: 5 penalty unit.


-------------------

Cop that. :)

Lemme know what you determined. I haven't got the time or inclination to decipher it all right now! LOL
 
Aussiejeff said:
267. Exemptions from wearing seatbelts

(2) A person in or on a motor vehicle is exempt from wearing a seatbelt if””
(a) the person is engaged in the door-to-door delivery or collection of goods, or in the collection of waste or garbage, and is required to get in or out of the vehicle, or on or off the vehicle, at frequent intervals; and
(b) the vehicle is not travelling over 25 kilometres per hour.
Note Motor vehicle is defined in the Road Safety Act 1986.


-------------------

Cop that. :)

Lemme know what you determined. I haven't got the time or inclination to decipher it all right now! LOL
Click to expand...



well here is something new, if I am driving under 25Km/hr I am not required to wear a seat belt.

Thank you all for the references. Now after a party we fit more than 5 people in the car :D (j/k). Thank you Christine for bring this loop hole to public attention :cautious:.
 
mayk said:
well here is something new, if I am driving under 25Km/hr I am not required to wear a seat belt.
Click to expand...


But would probably be booked for driving too slow in a designated speed zone
and if that happens, which is the lesser fine? ;)

Not condoning the option of NOT wearing a seatbelt, depends on how fast the other :alcohol: idiot is going when they hit your car,
could be :fan time
 
It sounds like there's an extraordinary shortage of brain cells amongst Victorian police and politicians if the above quotes are even remotely true.

I can't see anything in the legislation quoted above that allows 8 people in a car or passengers to not be wearing seatbelts.

Am I in some kind of twighlight zone here, or did the Victorian police commissioner, Victorian roads minister and RACV president all get convinced that it is legal to drive with 8 people in a mitsubishi lancer? That astounds me if its the case.

What am I missing?
 
These are people who's job is all about the road and motoring. It is incomprehensible that they could be that ignorant of the law. What am I missing above? is there actually a loophole? I can't see it.
 
While buses have a limit of seated and standing passengers (usualy no seat belts) privately registered cars do not have a legaly set limit to the number of passengers the vehicle can carry.

The law (in NSW) requires that the seat belts where fitted must be correctly worn. If a vehicle has six people (including the driver) and only 5 seat belts. The five seat belts must be correctly fastened securing 5 people and one person rides without a seat belt.

If the vehicle has too many people in it, hampering the drivers ability to drive and see using the appropriate mirriors the driver can be fined for "manner operated".
 
nulla nulla said:
While buses have a limit of seated and standing passengers (usualy no seat belts) privately registered cars do not have a legaly set limit to the number of passengers the vehicle can carry.

The law (in NSW) requires that the seat belts where fitted must be correctly worn. If a vehicle has six people (including the driver) and only 5 seat belts. The five seat belts must be correctly fastened securing 5 people and one person rides without a seat belt.

If the vehicle has too many people in it, hampering the drivers ability to drive and see using the appropriate mirriors the driver can be fined for "manner operated".
Click to expand...

I think the fact the law doesn't actually clearly define the maximum allowable number of passengers that can be carried in/on non-commercial sedans, four wheel drives, utilities, people movers, station wagons and quad bikes (eg: 3 x 14 yr olds badly injured yesterday E of Melbourne - all riding on a single quad that slammed into a pole!) is the big problem. It is currently a totally grey area, it would seem.

To cover every possible vehicle size and configuration within those above classifications would require a BIG overhaul of the regulations - probably pages and pages of extra legalese) to accurately specify exactly how many adults, children & infants (in all their possible allowable permutations) may be carried and under what circumstances!

I think that is why no State has bothered to even try and cover that lot and left it up to driver's and passenger's "common sense". The problem with allowing people the latitude of "common sense" is that growing numbers seem to lack it!



aj
 
mayk said:
Can you provide a reference?
Click to expand...

Thanks to those who just did!

cuttlefish said:
I can't see anything in the legislation quoted above that allows 8 people in a car or passengers to not be wearing seatbelts.

What am I missing?
Click to expand...

This bit

264. Wearing of seatbelts by drivers

(1) The driver of a motor vehicle that is moving, or is stationary but not parked, must comply with this rule if the driver’s seating position is fitted with a seatbelt.

AND this bit

If the passenger occupies a seating position fitted with a seatbelt, the passenger must wear the seatbelt

AND ALL of this bit

268. How persons must travel in or on a motor vehicle

Basically, unless the law states that something is prohibited, then it is actually legal. Nowhere does it state that people have to sit in separate seats, just as long as their arms and limbs do not protrude the vehicle, and that the vehicle is designed to carry passengers, not freight. If the person is occupying a seat or space that does not have seat belts, or if that seat belt is being used by someone else who is sitting there, then no offence. And remember Bench seats do not specify the number pf passengers, so although squeezy, the ride could be quite comfortable with more than 3 people. There are still many 'bench seat' cars on the road.

There are other ways to 'book people' but using the seat belt legislation (unless a belt is hanging free and the person has an exemption) isn't the way to do it!

;) my former life is coming back to me now....
 

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