Sarah Palin: The Barracuda

[2020hindsight]

Biden is not an "old fogy", yes he is ageing gracefully as we all will.

what was that song ?
just to keep her from the fogy fogy Jew ..
not that Biden is Jewish lol (well not to my knowledge).

Biden is a classic! - gentleman, brilliant resume etc. Great commmunicator --
(PS crikey, he even knows what A VP does ! lol)

heck jimminy cricket, he even answers the questions put to him, - and debates them "on the fly"

and wow holy toleda batman, when he looks down at his desk, he actually emerges with real telling counterpoints (correcting her miriad claims about voting records etc) - not just memorising the next 2 minute bite for the next discussion point.

:horse:

 

[noirua]

It is generally accepted that the Vice Presidential running mates fought a draw.

 

[Calliope]

Interesting to see where your weak points are and your self description.

Biden is not an "old fogy", yes he is ageing gracefully as we all will.

I did not admonish her accent. Though her words of choice do not come across as professional in the appointment she is seeking
.

Apparently the words "attractive, articulate young mother" are an anaethema to you.

This surprises me because until Doris's revelation I had assumed you were a man. Your avatar being Jane Russell, a busty pinup of the forties misled me.

I also assume that you and Doris are networking and your put-downs of Palin are coordinated.

 

[Aussiejeff]

It is generally accepted that the Vice Presidential running mates fought a draw.

Seems like an overly "general" generalisation you have made, mate....

According to the latest poll updates, the winner seems pretty damn clear to me..


Who Won VP Debate: A Review of Polls with October 3 pm update

by George Harris
Kansas City Star
Readers Advisory Panel 2008

update October 3 5:15 pm

Two additional polls to report:

Survey USA Biden 51% Palin 32%
Undecided 17%

MediaCurves.com tracked independent voters, showing them breaking to Biden 67% to Palin 33%.

Original report:
Random and non-random polls for the vice presidential debate declare Biden the winner over Palin in the vice-presidential debate.

Non-random (unscientific) polls on AOL and MSNBC web sites show Biden winning 48 to 45 and 78.6 to 18.9 respectively.

Randomly selected subjects on three other polls also show Biden winning:

CNN/Opinion Research Biden 51 Palin 36
CBS Biden 46 Palin 21
Fox Biden 61 Palin 39

In the CBS poll, of the uncommitted voters, 18% now say they will vote Obama/Biden, 10% now say McCain/Palin.

Post-debate reaction seemed to agree that Governor Palin gave a good account of herself in being able to deliver prepared answers, though often not responsive to the question at hand.

Biden was able to draw on extensive experience from his long experience as a Senator.

I was surprised that Palin's charm did not work better than the poll results showed. But she likely was weighed down by Saturday Night Live parodies and interviews earlier in the week with CBS's Couric. By the time of the debate, people knew that she is not ready for the presidency and saw through her efforts to appear that she was with canned responses.

The issue from the Thursday night debate ultimately is not about Palin but about McCain's judgment in selecting someone with so little qualification for national office.

The McCain/Palin ticket will likely drop into attack gear for the remainder of the campaign in a last ditch effort to stop Obama and Biden. I think it's likely to become really ugly but hope that McCain chooses instead to recover some of his dignity as Palin did in a good effort Thursday night.

Submitted by GeorgeHarris on October 3, 2008 - 4:13am.

How do those figures equate to "a draw"??

 

[2020hindsight]

Herewith excerpt from the transcript...
and two examples of "falling back to the energy question when you run out of energy on the topic "...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/

IFILL: Thank you, Senator.

Now... I want to get -- try to get you both to answer a question that neither of your principals quite answered when my colleague, Jim Lehrer, asked it last week, starting with you, Sen. Biden.

What promises -- given the events of the week, the bailout plan, all of this, what promises have you and your campaigns made to the American people that you're not going to be able to keep?

BIDEN: Well, the one thing we might have to slow down is a commitment we made to double foreign assistance. We'll probably have to slow that down.

We also are going to make sure that we do not go forward with the tax cut proposals of the administration -- of John McCain, the existing one for people making over $250,000, which is $130 billion this year alone.

We're not going to support the $300 billion tax cut that they have for corporate America and the very wealthy. We're not going to support another $4 billion tax cut for ExxonMobil.

And what we're not going to also hold up on, Gwen, is we cannot afford to hold up on providing for incentives for new jobs by an energy policy, creating new jobs.

We cannot slow up on education, because that's the engine that is going to give us the economic growth and competitiveness that we need.

And we are not going to slow up on the whole idea of providing for affordable health care for Americans, none of which, when we get to talk about health care, is as my -- as the governor characterized -- characterized.

The bottom line here is that we are going to, in fact, eliminate those wasteful spending that exist in the budget right now, a number of things I don't have time, because the light is blinking, that I won't be able to mention, but one of which is the $100 billion tax dodge that, in fact, allows people to take their post office box off- shore, avoid taxes.

I call that unpatriotic. I call that unpatriotic.

IFILL: Governor?

BIDEN: That's what I'm talking about.

IFILL: Governor?

PALIN: Well, the nice thing about running with John McCain is I can assure you he doesn't tell one thing to one group and then turns around and tells something else to another group, including his plans that will make this bailout plan, this rescue plan, even better.

I want to go back to the energy plan, though, because this is -- this is an important one that Barack Obama, he voted for in '05.

Sen. Biden, you would remember that, in that energy plan that Obama voted for, that's what gave those oil companies those big tax breaks. Your running mate voted for that..... (etc etc rhubarb)

Here's the correction btw ... :-

BIDEN: Again, let me -- let's talk about those tax breaks. Barack Obama -- Obama voted for an energy bill because, for the first time, it had real support for alternative energy.

When there were separate votes on eliminating the tax breaks for the oil companies, Barack Obama voted to eliminate them. John did not.

Next example ..

IFILL: Sen. Biden, you voted for this bankruptcy bill. Sen. Obama voted against it. Some people have said that mortgage- holders really paid the price.

BIDEN: Well, mortgage-holders didn't pay the price. Only 10 percent of the people who are -- have been affected by this whole switch from Chapter 7 to Chapter 13 -- it gets complicated.

But the point of this -- Barack Obama saw the glass as half- empty. I saw it as half-full. We disagreed on that, and 85 senators voted one way, and 15 voted the other way.

But here's the deal. Barack Obama pointed out two years ago that there was a subprime mortgage crisis and wrote to the secretary of Treasury. And he said, "You'd better get on the stick here. You'd better look at it."

John McCain said as early as last December, quote -- I'm paraphrasing -- "I'm surprised about this subprime mortgage crisis," number one.

Number two, with regard to bankruptcy now, Gwen, what we should be doing now -- and Barack Obama and I support it -- we should be allowing bankruptcy courts to be able to re-adjust not just the interest rate you're paying on your mortgage to be able to stay in your home, but be able to adjust the principal that you owe, the principal that you owe.

That would keep people in their homes, actually help banks by keeping it from going under. But John McCain, as I understand it -- I'm not sure of this, but I believe John McCain and the governor don't support that.

There are ways to help people now. And there -- ways that we're offering are not being supported by -- by the Bush administration nor do I believe by John McCain and Gov. Palin.

IFILL: Gov. Palin, is that so?

PALIN: That is not so, but because that's just a quick answer, I want to talk about, again, my record on energy :eek3: versus your ticket's energy ticket, also.

I think that this is important to come back to, with that energy policy plan again that was voted for in '05.

 

[rederob]

It is generally accepted that the Vice Presidential running mates fought a draw.

Really!
There are polls that were taken that asked observers what they thought.
Palin was a clear loser, and by some very wide margins.
Palin did better than many expected, but this does not mean she won or drew with Biden.
Palin is a "polariser".
Hansen was a polariser in our political context.
If Palin doesn't screw her party boss she might not screw her political career as Hansen did.

 

[2020hindsight]

Apparently the words "attractive, articulate young mother" are an anaethema to you.

This surprises me because until Doris's revelation I had assumed you were a man. Your avatar being Jane Russell, a busty pinup of the forties misled me.

I also assume that you and Doris are networking and your put-downs of Palin are coordinated.

calliope
you are one nasty dude aren't you.

What's worse you can't see straight - that's not Russell, it's Bridgit Bardot!

PS Since we've already torn into Green speculating on her accent, we might as well speculate on her bust measurement as well - Here's Hepburn vs Russell

 

[Calliope]

calliope
you are one nasty dude aren't you.
:

Pot calling the kettle black. If you are trying to make some point, what is it?

Evil to him who evil thinks.

 

[Green08]

Apparently the words "attractive, articulate young mother" are an anaethema to you.

This surprises me because until Doris's revelation I had assumed you were a man. Your avatar being Jane Russell, a busty pinup of the forties misled me.

I also assume that you and Doris are networking and your put-downs of Palin are coordinated.

"attractive, articulate young mother" do you leer after the yummy mummies on the Gold Coast?

You got the avatar wrong, I would have thought with your age as an "old fogy" you may have seen the Golden Age of Cinema.

There is nothing coordinated with anyone. Just people who have social manners voicing their opinions in your attacks on me. Keep going it is showing who you really are as a human.

 

[Julia]

Herewith excerpt from the transcript...
and two examples of "falling back to the energy question when you run out of energy on the topic "...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/




Here's the correction btw ... :-


Next example ..

Thanks for posting that excerpt from the transcript, 2020. I didn't see all the debate.
How could the moderator have allowed her to do that??????

 

[Calliope]

"attractive, articulate young mother" do you leer after the yummy mummies on the Gold Coast?

You got the avatar wrong, I would have thought with your age as an "old fogy" you may have seen the Golden Age of Cinema.

There is nothing coordinated with anyone. Just people who have social manners voicing their opinions in your attacks on me. Keep going it is showing who you really are as a human.

Cultured... social manners:headshake Now who is getting nasty. I was only responding to your gratuitis attempt to point out my weaknesses. And now I have become a leering old man.

I live 200k from the Gold Coast. Well outside my leering range.

 

[Bushman]

Biden did not attack Palin even though he could have wiped the floor with her. Obama and Biden do not fear pops and the 'hockey mom'.

Palin for will be more of a threat in four to eight years after the Democrats pull the US out of the fires and the American swagger is returned. Then war and greed will once again be as acceptable as apple pie.

The one I am really waiting for is Chelsea Clinton vs Jemma Bush! Pass me the popcorn.

 

[2020hindsight]

..The one I am really waiting for is Chelsea Clinton vs Jemma Bush! Pass me the popcorn.

lol - totally agree on all those points bushman..

or maybe Chelsea Clinton vs Meghan McCain

After all, this is what John McCain had to say about Chelsea a few years back . (1998 I think) .
(as they say, it says something about McCain's sense of humour. )

http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html
Salon feels its readers deserve the unadulterated truth. Though no tape of McCain's quip has yet emerged, this is what he reportedly said:

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno."

.... McCain's two-liner conveys some interesting insights into what he considers humorous (lesbianism, a young woman's physical appearance), particularly since it was delivered to a Republican crowd. Remember, this is the party that champions pro-family values.

But by censoring themselves, (i.e. not publishing this "joke") the Post, the Times and others helped McCain deflect flak and preserved his status as a Republican presidential contender

As I say that was old news... Meanwhile Here are some internet comments about Meghan McCain's involvement in the current campaign .. ..

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/12/18/meghan_mccain/

... So the question must be raised: What exactly is Meghan McCain, the 23-year old daughter of Republican candidate John McCain, thinking as she makes her way through the backstage passageways at her father's MTV/MySpace forum? Dressed to impress, in black knee-high boots, she moves on a mission, sometimes a Diet Coke in hand, a mini-entourage of friends swirling around: a photographer, a videographer, and a close pal, La-Toria Haven, who happens to be wearing a vintage campaign button from the 1972 McGovern campaign, with the anti-war message "Come Home America." Collectively, they are the team that produces McCainBlogette.com, one daughter's experiment in citizen journalism, a behind-the-scenes glimpse of a young person's life on the campaign trail.

 

[Nashezz]

The debate is over, Sarah beat Biden's butt. Wow. I was right, she's been sandbagging all along.

WOW!!

Really?

WOW!!

Who would have thought she could transform so dramatically and beat Biden.

Two instant polls agree: Biden won debate

More bad news for John McCain:
Two quick, post-debate polls agree that Joe Biden was the better performer in his debate Thursday night with Sarah Palin.

-- CBS used uncommitted voters, who gave Biden the edge in early numbers, 46-21 percent, over Palin.

-- CNN's instant poll of regular voters showed Biden victorious, 51-36.

More polls will be released early Friday.
http://voices.kansascity.com/node/2298

Oh. She didn't. Oops. How did you manage to get it so wrong Zzz?

....
By the way, if Joe Biden is such great stuff, where is the Joe Biden thread? And here we are with 19 pages of Sarah Palin. A better per day rate than the Barack Obama page BY FAR.

Um, how many of the posts are positive about Palin? There was plenty discussed about Pauline Hanson here (in Australia) as well - didn't make her smart, capable or worthy of her position though.

Biden did not attack Palin even though he could have wiped the floor with her. Obama and Biden do not fear pops and the 'hockey mom'.

Palin for will be more of a threat in four to eight years after the Democrats pull the US out of the fires and the American swagger is returned. Then war and greed will once again be as acceptable as apple pie.

The one I am really waiting for is Chelsea Clinton vs Jemma Bush! Pass me the popcorn.

hehe - that debate would just about sum up the current situation in my books.

 

[2020hindsight]

Julia
herewith another example of
a) ridiculously twisted statements by Palin ("Obama voted for it, that's not the way to go" - when McCain voted the same way
b) how she cannot argue any depth to her claims, and cannot and/or does not even try to defend them when they are challenged.

IFILL: Senator?

BIDEN: Well Gwen, two years ago Barack Obama warned about the sub prime mortgage crisis. John McCain said shortly after that in December he was surprised there was a sub prime mortgage problem. John McCain while Barack Obama was warning about what we had to do was literally giving an interview to The Wall Street Journal saying that I'm always for cutting regulations. We let Wall Street run wild. John McCain and he's a good man, but John McCain thought the answer is that tried and true Republican response, deregulate, deregulate.

So what you had is you had overwhelming "deregulation." You had actually the belief that Wall Street could self-regulate itself. And while Barack Obama was talking about reinstating those regulations, John on 20 different occasions in the previous year and a half called for more deregulation. As a matter of fact, John recently wrote an article in a major magazine saying that he wants to do for the health care industry deregulate it and let the free market move like he did for the banking industry.

So deregulation was the promise. And guess what? Those people who say don't go into debt, they can barely pay to fill up their gas tank. I was recently at my local gas station and asked a guy named Joey Danco (ph). I said Joey, how much did it cost to fill your tank? You know what his answer was? He said I don't know, Joe. I never have enough money to do it. The middle class needs relief, tax relief. They need it now. They need help now. The focus will change with Barack Obama.

IFILL: Governor, please if you want to respond to what he said about Sen. McCain's comments about health care?

PALIN: I would like to respond about the tax increases. We can speak in agreement here that darn right we need tax relief for Americans so that jobs can be created here. Now, Barack Obama and Sen. Biden also voted for the largest tax increases in U.S. history. Barack had 94 opportunities to side on the people's side and reduce taxes and 94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction, 94 times.

Now, that's not what we need to create jobs and really bolster and heat up our economy. We do need the private sector to be able to keep more of what we earn and produce. Government is going to have to learn to be more efficient and live with less if that's what it takes to reign in the government growth that we've seen today. But we do need tax relief and Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year. That's a lot of middle income average American families to increase taxes on them. I think that is the way to kill jobs and to continue to harm our economy.

IFILL: Senator?

BIDEN: The charge is absolutely not true. Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes. The vote she's referring to, John McCain voted the exact same way. It was a budget procedural vote. John McCain voted the same way. It did not raise taxes. Number two, using the standard that the governor uses, John McCain voted 477 times to raise taxes. It's a bogus standard it but if you notice, Gwen, the governor did not answer the question about deregulation, did not answer the question of defending John McCain about not going along with the deregulation, letting Wall Street run wild. He did support deregulation almost across the board. That's why we got into so much trouble.

IFILL: Would you like to have an opportunity to answer that before we move on?

ok - she has been called on this claim? - how will she respond ? with credibility? honesty maybe? lol - you're kidding

PALIN: I'm still on the tax thing because I want to correct you on that again. And I want to let you know what I did as a mayor and as a governor. And I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I'm going to talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record also. As mayor, every year I was in office I did reduce taxes. I eliminated personal property taxes and eliminated small business inventory taxes and as governor we suspended our state fuel tax. We did all of those things knowing that that is how our economy would be heated up. Now, as for John McCain's adherence to rules and regulations and pushing for even harder and tougher regulations, that is another thing that he is known for though. Look at the tobacco industry. Look at campaign finance reform.

 

[Doris]

Apparently the words "attractive, articulate young mother" are an anaethema to you.

This surprises me because until Doris's revelation I had assumed you were a man. Your avatar being Jane Russell, a busty pinup of the forties misled me.

I also assume that you and Doris are networking and your put-downs of Palin are coordinated.

First of all, I'm humbled by your altercation which alludes to my alliteration or was this allusive?

But did you mean to say 'anathema'?

Your allegation of Jane Russell alludes to ignorance OR surreptitious malodorous malice.

2020's subtle identification of iconic Katharine depicts Green08 as idolatrous of a woman I have idolized all my life.

Surely you can appreciate that intelligent people can succumb to grumpy old men with exasperation without your executing excremental responses with rudimentary rudeness?

You seem so sad in your denigrating discourses. Be tentative. Better still...
Choose to have opinions and discuss issues and related concepts - not personalities who posit.

Or is the sheer joy of shaden freude too addictive?

Can you reform and refine by refraining from frustrating refluent refractories?

 

[Calliope]

First of all, I'm humbled by your altercation which alludes to my alliteration or was this allusive?

But did you mean to say 'anathema'?

Your allegation of Jane Russell alludes to ignorance OR surreptitious malodorous malice.

2020's subtle identification of iconic Katharine depicts Green08 as idolatrous of a woman I have idolized all my life.

Surely you can appreciate that intelligent people can succumb to grumpy old men with exasperation without your executing excremental responses with rudimentary rudeness?

You seem so sad in your denigrating discourses. Be tentative. Better still...
Choose to have opinions and discuss issues and related concepts - not personalities who posit.

Or is the sheer joy of shaden freude too addictive?

Can you reform and refine by refraining from frustrating refluent refractories?

I appear to have touched on a sensitive nerve by accident. I have never heard of your icon. I thought she was Jane Russell. You really rave on and your alliteration gimmick is just plain silly. Your outburst has plumbed new depths in nastiness and all because Green thought I was being supportive of Palin.

Palin may inspire fear and loathing in you. I have no idea why she does this to grumpy old women. She represents no danger to Obama. You are just wasting your spleen on her. And don't blame me for 2020's inanities.

Get a life.

 

[Doris]

I appear to have touched on a sensitive nerve by accident. I have never heard of your icon. I thought she was Jane Russell. You really rave on and your alliteration gimmick is just plain silly. Your outburst has plumbed new depths in nastiness and all because Green thought I was being supportive of Palin.

Palin may inspire fear and loathing in you. I have no idea why she does this to grumpy old women. She represents no danger to Obama. You are just wasting your spleen on her. And don't blame me for 2020's inanities.

You have never heard of Katharine Hepburn?

You are insensitive enough to not know why Green08 was offended by your remarks?

Each word I used is profound and contributes to a lesson for you... particularly to be tentative!

I'm stunned that you interpret, incongruously, that I fear Palin.
'Loathe' is incongruous too! I find her quite cute and entertaining!

eg: McCain abandons Michigan as a lost cause to save advertising money for winnable states.
Palin jumps up and emails him that she and Todd will go save the state for him! Cute!

Grab a dictionary and you will ascertain that my remarks were coherent and not nasty but objective.

Be tentative. ... especially before branding 2020's humor as inane.

 

[Calliope]

You are insensitive enough to not know why Green08 was offended by your remarks?
Each word I used is profound and contributes to a lesson for you... particularly to be tentative!

I think that if Green08 considers that I have offended her in some way she will tell me. You say "you will find what you seek." You will if you look under rocks.

Don't lecture me. Save it for the classroom.

"Each word I use is profound". You pompous ass.

For a woman who sets herself up as a political activist, you are remarkably sensitive to criticism.

 

[wayneL]

<mod hat on>I know politics can be emotive and a bit of verbal jousting is almost de rigueur, but please don't go over the line into personal abuse. We are getting a bit close to that in these politics threads.

Thanks