Women as Managers

[Timmy]

Thanks for the discussion Julia.

I have to say I thought the article you linked to was pretty low quality. Although the author seemed to take the well-researched Northwestern University study as a jumping off point, the rest of his article seemed to be just full of personal anecdotes and his own perceptions. The women leaders he referenced were outstanding examples of what a human can achieve and I don't think necessarily representative of female managers. For example, using a Nobel Peace Prize recipient, and saint (Mother Theresa), as an example of a female manager is extreme and is hardly representative of female managers as a group, is it? Referencing Ricky Gervais chararacter in The Office (pictured at the top of the article) as perhaps representative of male managers is probably a little extreme in the other direction too.

Maybe an argument can be made that using outstanding/extreme examples such as Anita Roddick and Mother Theresa is needed to redress the prejudices that exist against female managers (which I believe to be generally true), but I think such an argument is weak and unnecessary.

I found an article that discussed the Northwestern University study in a more balanced fashion: (http://www.northwestern.edu/ipr/publications/newsletter/iprn0312/eagly.html). I couldn't find the original article online to reference it. This article is a much better read, a much better article, and makes its points in a more balanced fashion.

Just for the record, the author of "The best man for the job is ... a woman" asks:
"When was the last time you heard of a female public leader involved in a sex scandal?". Cheryl Kernot.

 

[Sean K]

The way you were raised, your own morals/ethics you have built over the years, experience, qualifications, and how hard you choose to work - are much more important to your role than your bloody gender.

I disagree Gav.

At the moment genetics still determine your position in society.

We are effectively living in a world caste system, similar to India on a global scale.

Have a think about that.

It's even prevalent in Australia, one of the most 'free' counties in the world.

Breaking out of your class, or gender jail, is almost impossible.

 

[gav]

what bollocks, there is no gender jail in Aust.

 

[kotim]

Simple fact is that women in general are more forgiving and men less forgiving. So if you have a position whereby you need people to stick to the rules more then men are better, they will give in less.

If you want compromise then choose a woman. Both have their advantages and disadvantages and it depends upon what the position calls for mostly.

 

[Julia]

Julia, I'm not sure if you have something against men, or you are just insecure in yourself as a woman with these comments. In fact, if a male made comments similar to these, he would be labelled 'sexist'. Wysiwyg is corrent, gender is not an issue to competence at all. The way you were raised, your own morals/ethics you have built over the years, experience, qualifications, and how hard you choose to work - are much more important to your role than your bloody gender.

Gav, I'm quite surprised at how seriously this topic is being treated.
I posted the link just to promote some discussion. I didn't comment on whether I agreed with it.

It is simply factual to state that ASF is a male dominated environment.
Not sexist to say that.

And I'd be very surprised if anyone would contradict my suggestion that sexual harassment in the workplace has over the years been much more commonly generated by men.

Am I insecure as a woman? I don't think so. And I have never felt in the slightest disadvantaged in any job situation by my gender. I believe I've had the same opportunities as any male. I've also supervised and trained males as well as females and have found them equally responsive.

So I'd suggest you are reading into my attempts to provoke discussion attitudes which are not there. If I were anti-men, I wouldn't be interested in exchanging views on a multitude of subjects on this very website.

Wysiwyg, sorry I didn't comment on your suggestion earlier. Overall, I do agree, but I think there are some work environments where women's natural attributes enable them to be more effective managers, and ditto for men.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Julia, I'm not sure if you have something against men, or you are just insecure in yourself as a woman with these comments.

Ha!.......This from a "bodybuilder" I always thought they were insecure little men in big mens bodies.

 

[Julia]

Ha!.......This from a "bodybuilder" I always thought they were insecure little men in big mens bodies.

What an unkind suggestion, TH.

 

[Pat]

In a male dominated forum such as ASF, I'm not sure that this article will even be read, let alone endorsed, but it's interesting. Any comments?

http://smallbusiness.smh.com.au/man...man-911082635.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

Julia, I'm not sure if you have something against men, or you are just insecure in yourself as a woman with these comments. In fact, if a male made comments similar to these, he would be labelled 'sexist'. Wysiwyg is corrent, gender is not an issue to competence at all. The way you were raised, your own morals/ethics you have built over the years, experience, qualifications, and how hard you choose to work - are much more important to your role than your bloody gender.

I somewhat agree Gav, but nothing is that simple.

Julia, your first comment re: "ASF is male dominated" is... well... part of the problem. Can't you just say there more guys on ASF than girls?

Times are changing, and IMO the best manager's I have had have been women, I like girls

 

[Sean K]

Hmmmmm.

Analyse the qualitative and the quantitative, and it's obvious that women are better adapted and qualified to be back looking after the kids, than running the war..

Business is war in this day and age, but it is changing.

But, not yet!

Right now, those adapted for war are better managers....

 

[Pat]

Hmmmmm.

Analyse the qualitative and the quantitative, and it's obvious that women are better adapted and qualified to be back looking after the kids, than running the war..

Business is war in this day and age, but it is changing.

But, not yet!

Right now, those adapted for war are better managers....

Kenna's, I know a few chicks that would kick both our ass's. My lady, is an excellent warmonger.
Every guy cowers when we recieve that look.

 

[CanOz]

You know it ony occured to me the other week that for the last year i have had only women reporting directly to me. I have 3 operational type department managers reporting to me, all women and all leading the strongest team of people in the business, in my very biased view of course!

I would'nt trade these ladies for anyone, they're very hardworking (they work longer hours than me, and thats something), very honest, considerate and they don't play politics.

In China, in my opinion, women do all the work and men take all the credit.

Cheers,


CanOz

 

[nomore4s]

In China, in my opinion, women do all the work and men take all the credit.

lol, not only in China, just ask a woman anywhere:

 

[IFocus]

Hmmmmm.

Analyse the qualitative and the quantitative, and it's obvious that women are better adapted and qualified to be back looking after the kids, than running the war..

Business is war in this day and age, but it is changing.

But, not yet!

Right now, those adapted for war are better managers....

Hmmmmmmm not my own experience, spent years in chemical manufacturing, really tough environment nothing every goes right. Run it like a war and you are in serious trouble.

Best engineers mechanical and process have generally been women head and shoulders.

As for managers seen both good and bad between the genders but as a general comment Australian managers are frigging hopeless worked for American, South African and Poms and they have shone all over Australians which has been an embarrassment.

 

[Julia]

I

Julia, your first comment re: "ASF is male dominated" is... well... part of the problem. Can't you just say there more guys on ASF than girls?

Oh my goodness, that is just being picky, isn't it? To express that any environment is male/female dominated is simply a statement of demographic fact. No real need to involve emotion in it at all.

There is no intent in the statement to convey disaffection for any of you lovely blokes out there.

I'd just hoped for an objective discussion of the attributes or otherwise of women as managers. And thankfully, some of the more sensible and mature ASF'rs have obliged. A big thank you to those people. And to the rest, well, I've learned a good deal about the sensitivites and insecurities of some blokes.



As it happens, for me to say "there are more guys on ASF than girls" would simply be out of character for my baby boomer personality. Very sorry.
Next thing you might be wanting me to refer to "gals" or "chicks". No. I won't do that either.

 

[Pat]

Oh my goodness, that is just being picky, isn't it?

Perhaps, however where not mind readers as you females so often think . Better choice of words next time? Just for us picky ones...

IMO ladies/chicks/dudetts/skirts (I got the last one from happy days ) make great managers, they seem to be intune with "workers" emotions/feelings, most of my female managers have been able to extract the best from me and the team, in most if not all situations. Maybe its just me? Whenever i've had a male manager, my mind wants to work 'unsupervised'.
Not saying the guys out there do the same, but most women have this ability built in. I guess they manage people better. Like a family I guess.
For the record I've worked in the hospitality industry, mostly with ladies , and now the finance industry. The difference in leadership style is enormous.

 

[Pat]

As it happens, for me to say "there are more guys on ASF than girls" would simply be out of character for my baby boomer personality. Very sorry.
Next thing you might be wanting me to refer to "gals" or "chicks". No. I won't do that either.

Being out of character often makes others smile.

 

[wayneL]

Perhaps, however where not mind readers as you females so often think . Better choice of words next time? Just for us picky ones...

Jayzuz! Us picky (male) ones, well, we're acutely embarrassed by homophonous transgressions (holy crap, not even homophonous!). I wonder if Sheilas (sorry, just had to slot that one in after the last few posts) fair... err, phare... ummm phayre... hmmm no, fare... ah that's it...any better?

:

 

[natashia]

Jayzuz! Us picky (male) ones, well, we're acutely embarrassed by homophonous transgressions (holy crap, not even homophonous!). I wonder if Sheilas (sorry, just had to slot that one in after the last few posts) fair... err, phare... ummm phayre... hmmm no, fare... ah that's it...any better?

:

hahhaha yep you have just cracked me up LOL
:

 

[dotocom]

all i know is that Hilary has Testosterone problems

 

[Stan 101]

Women can make excellent managers from my experience. There is often less in the way of "jobs for the boys" that can be the case with guys.
Women I have dealt with in upper management bring a certain something to a boardroom. Often, there is an element of femininity and nurturing whilst not giving an inch. An oxymoron, I know, but it is the best I can come up with in a few seconds.
Having to deal with Alpha male egos (my own included) all day everyday is frankly, dull. Women add to a management team's dynamics.