Women as Managers

[Julia]

In a male dominated forum such as ASF, I'm not sure that this article will even be read, let alone endorsed, but it's interesting. Any comments?

http://smallbusiness.smh.com.au/man...man-911082635.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

 

[nioka]

In a male dominated forum such as ASF, I'm not sure that this article will even be read, let alone endorsed, but it's interesting. Any comments?

http://smallbusiness.smh.com.au/man...man-911082635.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

Read . Yes

Endorsed. No.

Reason. From my experience women make good managers when things are going along OK. They do not stick it out when things get tough, men are more inclined to shrug their shoulders and give it another try.

 

[MRC & Co]

I like woman as managers.

I find you don't get the ego trip and little man syndrome many guys experience. They are nobodies in their every day life and come to work for their power trip.

Just my experiences and a generalisation of course.

 

[Julia]

Read . Yes

Endorsed. No.

Reason. From my experience women make good managers when things are going along OK. They do not stick it out when things get tough, men are more inclined to shrug their shoulders and give it another try.

I'd have suggested the reverse, Nioka. i.e. that women are likely to say, OK, that didn't work well. Where did we go wrong? How can we do it better?

 

[Julia]

I like woman as managers.

I find you don't get the ego trip and little man syndrome many guys experience. They are nobodies in their every day life and come to work for their power trip.

Just my experiences and a generalisation of course.

Good to hear, MRC & Co.
I'd suggest that women managers are also less likely to get involved in sexual harassment of their employees, something which can be pretty depressing and boring with a male manager.

 

[wayneL]

According to Michael Gerber in The E-Myth series of books, people fall into one of three categories in their working life.

Technicians
Managers
Entrepreneurs

...and each type is totally crap at the other tasks.

My observation is that women tend to be a bit more adept at intrinsically knowing their own aptitudes, whereas men often try to be something or recruited into something they are not.

It may be that more "manager" women become managers staraight off the bat.

Another factor is that the bosses (entrepreneurs) tend to recruit male technicians as managers and a technician is a crap manager.

Sheer offhand and casual observations, but sure, women make great managers.

S

 

[Wysiwyg]

In a male dominated forum such as ASF, I'm not sure that this article will even be read, let alone endorsed, but it's interesting. Any comments?

Dear Julia,

I don`t think gender should be an issue.A competent manager is a competent manager.​

W.

 

[nioka]

I'd have suggested the reverse, Nioka. i.e. that women are likely to say, OK, that didn't work well. Where did we go wrong? How can we do it better?

Not right at all. Next time you hear a female blame the glass ceiling look at the situation and you will mostly find that they couldnt hack the job when things weren't going the way they liked it. It is not all one sided though. I'll admit to walking away from a top job in a reasonably large company myself. I sat at a desk one day and decided that I spent most of my time either signing my name or settling arguments between Division Managers, Supervisors and Department Heads etc. The males used to blame others for their shortcomings. The women blamed their shortcomings on others not accepting a woman in the job. Everyone seemed to think they could do everyone elses job better than the person doing it. Men often asked why they were overlooked for promotiom. Women usually just said that they weren't promoted just because they were a woman.

 

[Julia]

Not right at all. Next time you hear a female blame the glass ceiling look at the situation and you will mostly find that they couldnt hack the job when things weren't going the way they liked it. It is not all one sided though. I'll admit to walking away from a top job in a reasonably large company myself. I sat at a desk one day and decided that I spent most of my time either signing my name or settling arguments between Division Managers, Supervisors and Department Heads etc. The males used to blame others for their shortcomings. The women blamed their shortcomings on others not accepting a woman in the job. Everyone seemed to think they could do everyone elses job better than the person doing it. Men often asked why they were overlooked for promotiom. Women usually just said that they weren't promoted just because they were a woman.

Nioka, how long ago would that have been?

 

[nioka]

Nioka, how long ago would that have been?

Definitely not last week. Probably back in the bad old days for women. If you say things have changed I will admit to that but I have observed the same pattern of behaviour to this day. At the weekend I heard a young lady complaining that she was passed over for promotion in a large retail store because she was a woman. A week or two ago I was told that she was not going to get promoted because she expected to get the promotion without earning it. I heard both sides of the story. ( She is a relative and I wouldn't promote her myself)
Another case recently where staff were reduced following two businesses merging, one female told me that the job description was different with the new owners and she wasn't going to accept the change of title. A week later she was made redundant. Told me that they gave the job to a man in preference to a female, mentioned "glass ceiling".

 

[JTLP]

I'll tread carefully here...but having worked for both I would much prefer a male manager.

Women tend to get caught up on minor issues and can become quite bitchy amongst themselves. Men tend to as noika said just shrug the shoulders, remain cool and try to rationalise.

But for the record...back to the dishes Julia

Joe King

 

[Whiskers]

In a male dominated forum such as ASF, I'm not sure that this article will even be read, let alone endorsed, but it's interesting. Any comments?

http://smallbusiness.smh.com.au/man...man-911082635.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

I tend to agree with the following extract.

transformational (people-focused) leadership is far more effective than transactional (task-focused) leadership. Along the way it also found that women outperformed men in transformational prowess.

But then it's horses for courses a bit, depending on the enviornment to be managed, ie whether it's more people or task orientated.

From my experience women are certainly more consistant and reliable, probably for the reason wayneL mentions.

But as pointed out previously there are always exceptions. My best shed manager was a woman and my worst employee, come share farm partner (with her husband) and couldn't even make a go of that either, was a woman.

My observation is that women tend to be a bit more adept at intrinsically knowing their own aptitudes, whereas men often try to be something or recruited into something they are not.

I still tend to see many women as being/prefering the luteinent behind a good general, rather than the general themselves.

A case in point, my brothers late partner who passed away recently. She was the personal secretary for the regional manager of a large public company for twenty odd years and apparently was affectionately known as the boss, the person to see to get an (unoffical) opinion, to get things organised and keep everything up to date.

She died rather quickly from a severe stomach cancer but even after she was diagnosed terminal, she insisted on going back to work whenever she felt up to it to keep things ship shape and make for a smooth transition of her job.

 

[Smurf1976]

In my experience, the greatest problems with managers are lack of (1) appropriate trust in employees and (2) ability to effectively delegate. I'd say 90% of "managers" fail one or both of those points.

Next would come doing things the easy way and steering clear of the tough issues and/or simply ignoring what needs to be done.

Another bad one is job hoppers who take the job as manager simply as a stepping stone to a more senior position with no real interest in the job as such. Odds are they'll run around making lots of big decisions to make themselves look good then leave before it all falls in a heap and workers / new manager have to (at best) clean up the mess. Easiest way to spot one of these business wreckers is they simply ignore knowledgeable and experienced staff who do the actual work.

Male or female? Doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned. It's how they do the job that counts. Nothing worse than a micro manager or someone jumping from job to job with no aim other than increased salary / power / status who doesn't really give a damn about the company or workers since they'll be gone in a couple of years.

 

[johenmo]

Seen both in action. It all comes down to the personality of the person involved, and their "upbringing" in the work sphere. A lot of Uni graduates (I'm one) have nooooooooooooo people skills. Newbies appear with an inflated opinion and leave when they find they aren't getting it handed to them on a plate.

Unfortunately, a lot of the women I have observed seem to have thought they need to be more agressive than a man, and this impacts negatively. It's a fine line between assertive and aggressive, and a lot of people don't get the difference.

I have found it interesting that a lot of my female colleagues have preferred male bosses - common comment has been that they tend to get over issues and carry on more quickly, whereas females stew over things.

Confrontation - men will be confronting more than they should whereas the females are the reverse.

But I think they can dig to the root of issues better than men and that's a big plus.

Sexism still exists and it's hard to overcome that. The manufacturing arena (where I work) is bad for it.

But as I first said, it comes down to the person. I have worked for/with examples of both sexes where I should have left earlier (worst was male - but he was something from out of this world!).

 

[Julia]

I



But then it's horses for courses a bit, depending on the enviornment to be managed, ie whether it's more people or task orientated.

Thanks for all the reasoned and interesting responses.

Maybe what Whiskers says above is a lot to do with it. And this does seem to be how it often works , i.e. women do gravitate to people-focused businesses.

If we're still experiencing sexism now, I'm guessing the issue of the day in the future with the ageing population will become the reluctance of employers to hire people over 50 as this becomes an inevitability.

 

[Sean K]

Gentically,
Physiologically,
Phychologically,
Sociologically,
Anatomically,
Educationally,
Religiously,
Logically,

Women should still be subservant to the dominant species right now. Men still clearly dominante, and should, across the globe.

Don't think insular happy go lucky free ranging Australian middle class eastern suburbs mentality. Think global for this argument.

Give it another 200 years and perhaps the tide will be turned due primarilly to technology.

We will evolve to be totally androgenous eventually, and be equal in all ways. Cripes, one day, men will be having babies without the need for a pouch. Maybe it will be women who don't require protection..

At the moment, females are still on the end of the 'make babies to populate the world and ensure we survive' time scale.

Men generally control the exterior environment, and should. Part of this genetic, social, etc, natural quality is the ability to lead and manage.

Women are still (across the globe - get your mind out of the burbs) looking after domestic gathering and nurturing responsibilities.

Of course, women are much better at that than males.

If you want to go to war however, I think you better look to the men for leadership and management.

If the topic is about management in high business, then qualities required on the battlefront are probably more akin to making a business work.

Did I get off topic there.



(just some quick random thoughts)

 

[Surly]

From my time in the insurance industry (a boys club)...any women that actually bashed their way through the glass ceiling came through cut and scarred!

Not great managers as a result of the process.

cheers
Surly

 

[nioka]

Gentically,
Physiologically,
Phychologically,
Sociologically,
Anatomically,
Educationally,
Religiously,
Logically,

Women should still be subservant to the dominant species right now. Men still clearly dominante, and should, across the globe.

Don't think insular happy go lucky free ranging Australian middle class eastern suburbs mentality. Think global for this argument.

Give it another 200 years and perhaps the tide will be turned due primarilly to technology.

We will evolve to be totally androgenous eventually, and be equal in all ways. Cripes, one day, men will be having babies without the need for a pouch. Maybe it will be women who don't require protection..

At the moment, females are still on the end of the 'make babies to populate the world and ensure we survive' time scale.

Men generally control the exterior environment, and should. Part of this genetic, social, etc, natural quality is the ability to lead and manage.

Women are still (across the globe - get your mind out of the burbs) looking after domestic gathering and nurturing responsibilities.

Of course, women are much better at that than males.

If you want to go to war however, I think you better look to the men for leadership and management.

If the topic is about management in high business, then qualities required on the battlefront are probably more akin to making a business work.

Did I get off topic there.



(just some quick random thoughts)

WOW! What else can I answer that with? Your turn Julia!

 

[Sean K]

WOW! What else can I answer that with? Your turn Julia!

noika, didn't want to counter Julia's points but just went on my own discourse of the general topic.

Actually, I didn't even read the article attached before posting...

However, I have now read it, and it only confirms my opinion.

We are going through a transition in time and species where women will take more power and control and their management style will be more relevant.

But NOT YET.

The overall business world is WAR!

The example of the bodyshop franchise is actually supporting my case.

A business selling oilntments to make women more attractive to me? Give me a friggin break! How embarrassing.

What, or who, is another business or manager who does not display MALE traits to be successful?

Even out next GG, while a hot looking old bird, has got to where she is by displaying traditional MALE traits.

We can list them all later.

 

[gav]

In a male dominated forum such as ASF, I'm not sure that this article will even be read, let alone endorsed, but it's interesting. Any comments?

http://smallbusiness.smh.com.au/man...man-911082635.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

I'd have suggested the reverse, Nioka. i.e. that women are likely to say, OK, that didn't work well. Where did we go wrong? How can we do it better?

Good to hear, MRC & Co.
I'd suggest that women managers are also less likely to get involved in sexual harassment of their employees, something which can be pretty depressing and boring with a male manager.

Dear Julia,

I don`t think gender should be an issue.A competent manager is a competent manager.​

W.

Julia, I'm not sure if you have something against men, or you are just insecure in yourself as a woman with these comments. In fact, if a male made comments similar to these, he would be labelled 'sexist'. Wysiwyg is corrent, gender is not an issue to competence at all. The way you were raised, your own morals/ethics you have built over the years, experience, qualifications, and how hard you choose to work - are much more important to your role than your bloody gender.