Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
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Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first base
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Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
I'm only 21 and a student. I started to buy shares of companies when I was 16 with a little capital of 1500 euro's. And you can do that since my transaction costs are only 9,75 euro + 0,17% tax. Working at night and during the weekend helps me to increase my capital. Off course, the more money you have, the more easy it is to make a higher net profit.
But I don't know what the costs are for buying shares in Australia...
dimi
I'm only 21 and a student. I started to buy shares of companies when I was 16 with a little capital of 1500 euro's. And you can do that since my transaction costs are only 9,75 euro + 0,17% tax. Working at night and during the weekend helps me to increase my capital. Off course, the more money you have, the more easy it is to make a higher net profit.
But I don't know what the costs are for buying shares in Australia...
dimi
Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
I haven't read all the way back in this thread but surely the quickest way to establish a capital base to invest is to borrow? Does this qualify as capital?
I started investing pretty soon after I left Uni and started working as an engineer - got a "great" tip from a workmate that blew $5k of my money over a long and ugly buy and hold.
Only really dabbled though until I convinced my wife to let me borrow $20k on a personal loan to buy shares in 2006. Personal loans are pretty easy to get even if you are a student with part time work.
It was a great decision and I actively traded it up to $50k by probably March 2007. Of course since then things have not been so rosy - got crunched by the credit market crash as I had the majority of my money in specs.
In summary though, I have paid off the loan and still have about $20k that I'm working on building back up again.
I haven't read all the way back in this thread but surely the quickest way to establish a capital base to invest is to borrow? Does this qualify as capital?
I started investing pretty soon after I left Uni and started working as an engineer - got a "great" tip from a workmate that blew $5k of my money over a long and ugly buy and hold.
Only really dabbled though until I convinced my wife to let me borrow $20k on a personal loan to buy shares in 2006. Personal loans are pretty easy to get even if you are a student with part time work.
It was a great decision and I actively traded it up to $50k by probably March 2007. Of course since then things have not been so rosy - got crunched by the credit market crash as I had the majority of my money in specs.
In summary though, I have paid off the loan and still have about $20k that I'm working on building back up again.
Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
Im currently a part time uni student, and i have a full time job.
I took out a 15K personal loan (like many others have) and got into shares a day after the crash in August last year. Few months later i was a happy boy!
This year i have made an effort to accumulate shares while the market is down, and now I am up 5K from my initial position. Even though i have a couple stocks (ie ZFX) that aren't producing, my base is still growing. I do have the option of paying off my loan quicker, but while the market is down there are plenty of bargains to have!
Building a capital base is the first and hardest step into getting out of the rat race. And i don't feel I have reached that first step yet.
Im currently a part time uni student, and i have a full time job.
I took out a 15K personal loan (like many others have) and got into shares a day after the crash in August last year. Few months later i was a happy boy!
This year i have made an effort to accumulate shares while the market is down, and now I am up 5K from my initial position. Even though i have a couple stocks (ie ZFX) that aren't producing, my base is still growing. I do have the option of paying off my loan quicker, but while the market is down there are plenty of bargains to have!
Building a capital base is the first and hardest step into getting out of the rat race. And i don't feel I have reached that first step yet.
Trembling Hand
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Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
Yes, you should always be thinking about getting more out of your current effort not just adding new and more effort.
Yes, you should always be thinking about getting more out of your current effort not just adding new and more effort.
Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
Yes, In any field you choose, to be the best or perceived to be the best you need to show absolute focus/"passion" - only by having this reputation do you get headhunted, high salary, best opportunities, etc etc.
What i've learned is that when something is easy, there is more competition and you are constantly fighting to be one of the best out there in that field. When something is hard, as long as you get over the initial hurdles, then pretty much you are in a niche field and you don't have to spend so much energy proving yourself.
Either way is difficult, if you want to excel.
Which is why your energy is best spent in a field that you know you will have longevity in, or a passion for etc etc. Even better if it is in a niche field. Further, even if you hate what you are doing, best to jump to a related field so that all your experience is still relevant.
At the moment I work a 'nichey' day job and work less than half the year, earning approx $100K - I am 32 and could work more to earn more but I don't need to.
Frankly in my area of expertise, just being easy to work with and having a good work ethic is all you need. If I wanted to push myself, I would be attending courses, conferences, writing articles in journals - really putting myself out there and networking and building a really public professional profile. In some industries you have to do the extra to look better than the next guy, especially if your salary is not great.
In very competitive industries/jobs, the only good salaries are at the top of the chain, and the rest are paid crap. the hope that one day you'll make it to the top keeps you in the industry/job at a crap wage.
ok hope this made sense
Yes, In any field you choose, to be the best or perceived to be the best you need to show absolute focus/"passion" - only by having this reputation do you get headhunted, high salary, best opportunities, etc etc.
What i've learned is that when something is easy, there is more competition and you are constantly fighting to be one of the best out there in that field. When something is hard, as long as you get over the initial hurdles, then pretty much you are in a niche field and you don't have to spend so much energy proving yourself.
Either way is difficult, if you want to excel.
Which is why your energy is best spent in a field that you know you will have longevity in, or a passion for etc etc. Even better if it is in a niche field. Further, even if you hate what you are doing, best to jump to a related field so that all your experience is still relevant.
At the moment I work a 'nichey' day job and work less than half the year, earning approx $100K - I am 32 and could work more to earn more but I don't need to.
Frankly in my area of expertise, just being easy to work with and having a good work ethic is all you need. If I wanted to push myself, I would be attending courses, conferences, writing articles in journals - really putting myself out there and networking and building a really public professional profile. In some industries you have to do the extra to look better than the next guy, especially if your salary is not great.
In very competitive industries/jobs, the only good salaries are at the top of the chain, and the rest are paid crap. the hope that one day you'll make it to the top keeps you in the industry/job at a crap wage.
ok hope this made sense
tech/a
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Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
I dont know about that.
There are many many people out there that will never have the acumen to reach high "Top" positions---so whats left for the "Also rands".
Firstly its as much about the employer as it is about the employee.
Employees MUST interview their employers!
If they cant provide opportunity then youve got the wrong employer.
In my business I employ a lot of machine operators.
I pay them well over award rates--in return they Look after my machinery--infact all of them treat my machines and trucks like their own--if they dont I and their fellow workers dont want them in our team.
We ALL take pride in what we do,at the very best of our abilities.
Not all of these guys have any more aspirations in life than being an operator---and a damned good one.
I dont know about that.
There are many many people out there that will never have the acumen to reach high "Top" positions---so whats left for the "Also rands".
Firstly its as much about the employer as it is about the employee.
Employees MUST interview their employers!
If they cant provide opportunity then youve got the wrong employer.
In my business I employ a lot of machine operators.
I pay them well over award rates--in return they Look after my machinery--infact all of them treat my machines and trucks like their own--if they dont I and their fellow workers dont want them in our team.
We ALL take pride in what we do,at the very best of our abilities.
Not all of these guys have any more aspirations in life than being an operator---and a damned good one.
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Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
I'm not a disciplined saver, and money burned a hole in my pocket when I was younger.
For years, with my pay being deposited directly into my bank account, I had $500 a month automatically deducted from that account into another savings account. Never really had possession of the money, so I didn't spend it.
My husband, an accountant, is a very good, but conservative and mostly blue-chip growth stocks, investor. He manages the bulk of my money in a brokerage account and also looks after my retirement accounts. He's greatly increased the value of my portfolio.
It's only recently that I realized I had about $20,000 worth of "fun money" . This is the small capital base that I'm using to learn about investing and it's money that I can afford to lose.
The point here is that if you haven't got the self-discipline to save for yourself, perhaps automatic deductions are a good way to go. Oh, and it helps if you live with someone who can manage your money for you.
I'm not a disciplined saver, and money burned a hole in my pocket when I was younger.
For years, with my pay being deposited directly into my bank account, I had $500 a month automatically deducted from that account into another savings account. Never really had possession of the money, so I didn't spend it.
My husband, an accountant, is a very good, but conservative and mostly blue-chip growth stocks, investor. He manages the bulk of my money in a brokerage account and also looks after my retirement accounts. He's greatly increased the value of my portfolio.
It's only recently that I realized I had about $20,000 worth of "fun money" . This is the small capital base that I'm using to learn about investing and it's money that I can afford to lose.
The point here is that if you haven't got the self-discipline to save for yourself, perhaps automatic deductions are a good way to go. Oh, and it helps if you live with someone who can manage your money for you.
Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
I should have said 'one of the best at what you do'. As you show, Tech, you will pay your people better to do a better job (or vice versa). I doubt you employ people who don't care about the equipment etc etc. i'm sure some of your truck drivers are being wooed by other companies, because they have formidable reputations as truck drivers.
Their attention to the job doesn't come from whatever they have in intelligence, academics, family etc but attitude.
Amend my last post as a rant about focussing on what you do best. But on top of that, if there are many truck drivers around, then it gets harder to be one of the best, given the competition.
There is no doubt that people are lucky or brilliant and wealth falls into their laps. The rest of us have to work, and it's easier if we make the right choices and go that little bit further in our efforts.
having just read this, I feel like I am posting a cliche! but here it is.
I should have said 'one of the best at what you do'. As you show, Tech, you will pay your people better to do a better job (or vice versa). I doubt you employ people who don't care about the equipment etc etc. i'm sure some of your truck drivers are being wooed by other companies, because they have formidable reputations as truck drivers.
Their attention to the job doesn't come from whatever they have in intelligence, academics, family etc but attitude.
Amend my last post as a rant about focussing on what you do best. But on top of that, if there are many truck drivers around, then it gets harder to be one of the best, given the competition.
There is no doubt that people are lucky or brilliant and wealth falls into their laps. The rest of us have to work, and it's easier if we make the right choices and go that little bit further in our efforts.
having just read this, I feel like I am posting a cliche! but here it is.
Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
Absolute rubbish! It can certainly be done. I've made well in excess of that figure consistently over the last 3 years, and I'm sure many of the others on this forum would have as well. Just because you can't achieve that sort of return doesn't mean it's impossible.
Absolute rubbish! It can certainly be done. I've made well in excess of that figure consistently over the last 3 years, and I'm sure many of the others on this forum would have as well. Just because you can't achieve that sort of return doesn't mean it's impossible.
tech/a
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Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
Ah yes but 25% /year on your total nett worth?
Liquidate everything you own and go for it!
Try that!
25% on $10K,20,50 sure.
Buffett.
Totally different he CONTROLS his investments.
Ah yes but 25% /year on your total nett worth?
Liquidate everything you own and go for it!
Try that!
25% on $10K,20,50 sure.
Buffett.
Totally different he CONTROLS his investments.
wayneL
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Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
Indeed, account size the the fly in the ointment.
You can do it with a lot bigger account than 50k on the US market, but there are still constraints. Go above a certain position size and slippage will start to seriously dent returns.
The idea is to use a 100 grand or two, to make a hundred grand or two** (that should just about be enough for the lease on the Porche... and perhaps down payment on a loaf of bread), and use the rest of the gazillions another way.
**or whatever the trader is capable of.
Indeed, account size the the fly in the ointment.
You can do it with a lot bigger account than 50k on the US market, but there are still constraints. Go above a certain position size and slippage will start to seriously dent returns.
The idea is to use a 100 grand or two, to make a hundred grand or two** (that should just about be enough for the lease on the Porche... and perhaps down payment on a loaf of bread), and use the rest of the gazillions another way.
**or whatever the trader is capable of.
Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
Well I was actually referring to the highlighted part of the quote - 1% per month, ie. 12% per year. But yes, FWIW this current financial year I have made far in excess of 25% (after refining my trading strategy at the beginning of the financial year), and on much more than 50K capital. Maybe not my total net worth, no, but all of the money I currently have at my disposal. I haven't been willing to take on any more risk until I have improved my trading to the point that I can make a consistent profit over a number of years. I'm just getting to the point that I think I can probably take on a low level of gearing now.
So what sort of return would you consider typical for the fairly active trader? More than 25%?
Well I was actually referring to the highlighted part of the quote - 1% per month, ie. 12% per year. But yes, FWIW this current financial year I have made far in excess of 25% (after refining my trading strategy at the beginning of the financial year), and on much more than 50K capital. Maybe not my total net worth, no, but all of the money I currently have at my disposal. I haven't been willing to take on any more risk until I have improved my trading to the point that I can make a consistent profit over a number of years. I'm just getting to the point that I think I can probably take on a low level of gearing now.
So what sort of return would you consider typical for the fairly active trader? More than 25%?
tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
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Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
More so a litre of Gas.
Per year on capital for a profitable active trader---Yes.
But these traders are far from typlical.
The typical trader doesnt make a profit.
More so a litre of Gas.
Per year on capital for a profitable active trader---Yes.
But these traders are far from typlical.
The typical trader doesnt make a profit.
Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
Well yes, maybe I should've said 'successful' trader rather than 'typical' trader.
Well yes, maybe I should've said 'successful' trader rather than 'typical' trader.
Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
I've quite enjoyed reading the posts on this thread.
So here are my ideas, or rather what I live by.
1. Look at your attitude towards money. If you think it is too hard to start, then guess what, it will be. Pay yourself first.
2. Live within your means. If you can't pay off your credit card each month then get rid of it.
4. Only have good debts.
5. Set up a regular deduction from your wages into your investment account.
6. Learn to say "no". There are things you can live without.
I've quite enjoyed reading the posts on this thread.
So here are my ideas, or rather what I live by.
1. Look at your attitude towards money. If you think it is too hard to start, then guess what, it will be. Pay yourself first.
2. Live within your means. If you can't pay off your credit card each month then get rid of it.
4. Only have good debts.
5. Set up a regular deduction from your wages into your investment account.
6. Learn to say "no". There are things you can live without.
white_goodman
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Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
amen, especially number 5... 50% of my salary goes into investment
amen, especially number 5... 50% of my salary goes into investment
tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
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Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
Number 6
That sentence may as well be in Swahili.--My wife has no idea of its meaning!
I'll add the most expensive addition to your life is a wife.
Number 6
That sentence may as well be in Swahili.--My wife has no idea of its meaning!
I'll add the most expensive addition to your life is a wife.
Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
A suggestion I gave to a school leaver recently:
Never spend a gold coin ,you wont notice them gone if you put them in a bottle. You will be surprised how soon you will have $500 and then you make your first investment. Keep this up until you make your next investment of $500. That's the hardest part over.
Don't try to start at the top, everyone crawls before they walk and walk before they run.
The younger you start the easier it is but it is never too late.
A suggestion I gave to a school leaver recently:
Never spend a gold coin ,you wont notice them gone if you put them in a bottle. You will be surprised how soon you will have $500 and then you make your first investment. Keep this up until you make your next investment of $500. That's the hardest part over.
Don't try to start at the top, everyone crawls before they walk and walk before they run.
The younger you start the easier it is but it is never too late.
white_goodman
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Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas
this is where casual "buddies" come in handy
this is where casual "buddies" come in handy
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