What is God?

[2020hindsight]

Eminent physicist John Wheeler says he has only enough time left to work on one idea: that human consciousness shapes not only the present but the past as well.
by Tim Folger, Photography by Dan Winters

Our observations, he suggests, might actually contribute to the creation of physical reality. To Wheeler we are not simply bystanders on a cosmic stage; we are shapers and creators living in a participatory universe.

mmx, so we are the doers and shapers.

Can our consciousness shape where the market ended last Friday? - now you're talking. !

(I don't suppose he lets on what he was smoking at the time )

 

[moneymajix]

20/20

Masaru Emoto, a scientist in Japan, conducted experiments with water. Positively and empirically, it showed that Human consciousness is not only measurable, but it changes matter... we've got the pictures!


We may have more power over matter and reality than we ever thought. See John Wheeler's article, 90 year-old physicist, and colleague of Albert Einstein, gives us the most unusual premise of all: This researcher asks, "Does matter exist if the Human isn't looking?" He is one of the first to postulate that Human consciousness might be a huge energy player in physics (and it's about time). All this is to say that you and I are far more than blobs of accidental walking biology. We might actually have interdimensional power that postures what happens in what we call reality... the earth, the solar system, and our own personal paths. This then, starts to circle the wagons around the word intent...

 

[2020hindsight]

"Does matter exist if the Human isn't looking?"

I love the concept -
but wouldn't that mean that my "reality" would be different to yours? -
(Maybe I wasn't looking when you were - or vice versa )
then again - maybe it is lol.
ava good xmas

PS like a speech to an young adolescent ...

son / daughter ..this is reality
hope it doesn't dissapoint
hope it doesn't mess up your mind

(you're right . "reality" has gotta be a really subjective thing )
gotta think about whether matter exists etc - tree falling in the forest etc

I know a bloke who insists if he passes wind - and no one (else) hears - then it didn't happen !! lol

 

[2020hindsight]

My son was learning to ride a bike in a public park - had a bad habit of looking at things that he was supposed to miss. - and then running into them ( as is the way of these things)

When I told him for the nth time to look at the path he wanted to go , rather than the things he wanted to miss..

he got defensive, and, with bike wrapped round yet another tree, insisted ... "JESUS made me do it!! " - lol - kids can be hilarious.

 

[chops_a_must]

This then, starts to circle the wagons around the word intent...

This is nothing new. It was an idea first posited by Franz Brentano in the late 19th century. But the idea of intentionality became a force under Edmund Husserl and the phenomenological movement, who I've already mentioned.

I've never found an answer adequate to the statement of Epicurus, including yours mm.

I love the concept -
but wouldn't that mean that my "reality" would be different to yours? -
(Maybe I wasn't looking when you were - or vice versa )
then again - maybe it is lol.

Yep you pretty much got it in one. It explains how we can have different views of the exact same "facts" (I can't think of the correct term ATM) or external Objects, because of the different weight each of us puts on them. It also explains actions of schizophrenics etc.

 

[moneymajix]

20/20

Adults do that too, I think it is called abrogating responsiblity.

 

[treefrog]

agrees wif da "have a good xmas" (wif or wifout the religous trimmings)

but can't help meself mentioning this little gem I heard awhile back:

while i really like u, afraid I'll have to kill u because my imaginary friend doesn't agree with your imaginary friend

and >90% of wars have occured because these imaginary friends don't agree - I feel well able to get by without an imaginary friend

 

[moneymajix]

Chops

Cool. Not attempting to convince.

As it seems possible we can change the past in the present or future, what does it matter?



May you all manifest something truly wonderful this holiday season.

 

[2020hindsight]

mmx
transference of guilt - the most natural phsychological process of all

chops,
thanks man - so if I see three sides to reality, does that make me a tritsophrenic?
ava good xmas y'self. Trust you are exchanging cards with Jimmy Carter as usual, lol.

 

[2020hindsight]

reality ?

 

[moneymajix]

Hi 20/20

Enjoy your illusion.

 

[2020hindsight]

agrees wif da "have a good xmas" (wif or wifout the religous trimmings)

but can't help meself mentioning this little gem I heard awhile back:

while i really like u, afraid I'll have to kill u because my imaginary friend doesn't agree with your imaginary friend

and >90% of wars have occured because these imaginary friends don't agree - I feel well able to get by without an imaginary friend

tf, that is a gem, you're right

 

[dumpty]

waffle waffle waffle......i thought i was a deep thinker with lots of random thoughts.......man I am glad I simply believe in God!

 

[treefrog]

TreeFrog

I am more inclined to go for there being a divinity in human DNA which recognises on some level, the existence of God.

any research to support that longshot money??

 

[weird]

From, http://www.catholic.com/library/God_Has_No_Body.asp

The Church Fathers, of course, agreed, and loudly declared the fact that God is an unchangeable, immaterial spirit who has an entirely simple ("incomposite") nature—that is, a nature containing no parts. Since all bodies extend through space and thus can be divided into parts, it is clear that God cannot have a body.

Clement of Alexandria

"What is God? ‘God,’ as the Lord says, ‘is a spirit.’ Now spirit is properly substance, incorporeal, and uncircumscribed. And that is incorporeal which does not consist of a body, or whose existence is not according to breadth, length, and depth. And that is uncircumscribed which has no place, which is wholly in all, and in each entire, and the same in itself".

 

[ithatheekret]

Miscellanies I noted in the quote , Isn't that a latin form ie. miscellanea

Which means something along the lines of a group of writings or a volume of writings .

Where did you find that text ?

I vaguely remember a Brother clipping my ear over this text in my school days , not that it wouldn't have been warranted .

Like the Greek definition quoted in King James Version , Rev. 1 if I remember rightly .

Based on the same Alexandria text I think , where the Alpha & Omega translations got lost ..... deleted .... or whatever they did back then .

 

[refined silver]

agrees wif da "have a good xmas" (wif or wifout the religous trimmings)

but can't help meself mentioning this little gem I heard awhile back:

while i really like u, afraid I'll have to kill u because my imaginary friend doesn't agree with your imaginary friend

and >90% of wars have occured because these imaginary friends don't agree - I feel well able to get by without an imaginary friend

I agree with 20/20 its a funny quote, but its not a true quote.

Wars are caused by what's in the human heart - envy, greed, jealousy, hate, and love of power and control. Sometimes religion is used as a excuse for these, and some religions use them more often than others, and some sections of certain religions more so than other sectors.

However, the 20th Century put paid forever to the idea that religion is the root cause of war. Secularistic humanism in its different guises killed more people under Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler and others than all the religious wars put together.

 

[refined silver]

They can't actually prove more than 2 dimensions exist. Husserl demonstrated this. Hence the cubist movement.

I think Epicurus gives the most effective description/ explanation of what God is (and one of my favourite quotes of all time):

I knew Bertrand Russell had used it, and that it used by many others as a supposed proof against the existence of God. To me it actually demonstrates the poverty of thought and foolishness of supposedly intelligent people.

The problem of the existence of evil and the goodness and omnipotence of God has a very simple logical solution. Assuming God exists and He is both good and powerful, then why does evil exist? The simple answer is, that God must consider that creation of the world/universe even with its current sin, evil and suffering, will ultimately result in a higher good than had Creation not occurred.

He has said that the evil and suffering are not indefinite, (and in the light of eternity less than a drop in the ocean). By giving us (and angels) a free will, the possibility of sin, evil and suffering became real, but God obviously considers that the end result will be a higher good, than without the free will.

 

[chops_a_must]

Assuming God exists

Why on Earth would I think a thing like that?

But yes, the rest of your post there is along the lines of perhaps the most reasonable arguments for god's existence. Which is akin to the "Best of all possible worlds" theory, coined by Leibniz - which was then famously ridiculed by Voltaire in Candide (you can find out the literal translatin of that in French pretty easily). Leibniz has one of the only 2 arguments for god's existence that I think is in any way remotely possible, and although I hate to disappoint, are in absolutely no way congruent with any western religion.

But if you want to get into arguments needing the assumption of god, check out Berkeley. "To be is to be perceived" and all that jazz, really awesome stuff. Had some pretty big ding dong battles with Newton as well...

 

[treefrog]

I agree with 20/20 its a funny quote, but its not a true quote.

Wars are caused by what's in the human heart - envy, greed, jealousy, hate, and love of power and control. Sometimes religion is used as a excuse for these, and some religions use them more often than others, and some sections of certain religions more so than other sectors.

However, the 20th Century put paid forever to the idea that religion is the root cause of war. Secularistic humanism in its different guises killed more people under Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler and others than all the religious wars put together.

couldn't possibly go along with that bit RS - I know for a fact the human heart is a pump and just wouldn't work with all that junk in it