Dr Haneef

[2020hindsight]

Now I know I am asking for trouble here based on a number of posts in this thread but here goes....

I have a friend in the AFP in Canberra and also know a couple of policemen in Qld who are reasonably well up the totem pole. All have said the same story so I'm not sure I have much reason to doubt it (as they don't know each other).

Now comes the hard part - noone would tell me any particular facts, except for all claiming that there was evidence against the said Dr Haneef on the terror front. But apparently the chances of prosecution were not high, so the charges were dropped and took the softer option of deportation instead. If true, it is NOT a Howard or Rudd issue - it is a policing and court issue (on a side note, I really wish people would stop reading political subtexts into stories, it absolutely sh**'s me when people grind political axes or justify political beliefs that way without knowing a shred of the real issue or fact). I don't know specifics on this case and I know I'll probably cop it for providing hearsay here, but that is what I have heard like it or lump it.

Read your own conclusions and please please please don't shoot the messenger.

well since we're going hearsay.
I had a beer with a bloke ( a visiting professor, true story) in a gold coast hotel at the time
and he said he'd met Haneef's workmates
and they were outraged, and totally confident of his innocence, and totally happy to reemploy him (all as has been confirmed by subsequent press statements)

 

[explod]

Why is the guy so keen to leave his wife and young family to come and work/live here anyway ? suspicion should be grounds enough to exclude entry to Aus imho

Inference was used to move public opinion to rationalise the normality of sending millions to the gas chambers, inference was used to crucify Jesus, it was used to attack the soveriegn state of Irak, which at that time had nothing to do with terrorism.

We could suspect that you are facist and in a new order lock you up without rights for holding such views.

Inference and suspicion is not enough under any circumstance. And we should all be pleased for that and the other freedoms we enjoy in this country, a country that has never been threatened with terrorism within its borders.

 

[explod]

Now I know I am asking for trouble here based on a number of posts in this thread but here goes....

I have a friend in the AFP in Canberra and also know a couple of policemen in Qld who are reasonably well up the totem pole. All have said the same story so I'm not sure I have much reason to doubt it (as they don't know each other).

Now comes the hard part - noone would tell me any particular facts, except for all claiming that there was evidence against the said Dr Haneef on the terror front. But apparently the chances of prosecution were not high, so the charges were dropped and took the softer option of deportation instead. If true, it is NOT a Howard or Rudd issue - it is a policing and court issue (on a side note, I really wish people would stop reading political subtexts into stories, it absolutely sh**'s me when people grind political axes or justify political beliefs that way without knowing a shred of the real issue or fact). I don't know specifics on this case and I know I'll probably cop it for providing hearsay here, but that is what I have heard like it or lump it.

Read your own conclusions and please please please don't shoot the messenger.

Your inference is scurrulous. Having had a long career as a professional policeman and still some knowledge of the internal culture and politics within the mid to senior ranks I can assure you that the leanings are strong to maintain the status quo towards the establishment even if it means bending the truth a little at times. There have been many classic convictions overturned from convictions gained from fabrications. Not say that this is the case here. Just saying that it is dangerous to speculate on anything other than the facts.

 

[numbercruncher]

I agree with what you said Explod, but ill always be suspicious of a guy who chooses to live in another country and leave his wife and kids at "home".

6.5b people on this planet 20m here, we can well afford to be choosy, no bigotry involved, just an opinion amoung the many hundreds ......

I always fancy putting the shoe on the other foot and walking around, now If i deserted my family and moved to India and found myself in similar circumstances, I wonder what public opinion would be ?

 

[Superfly]

well since we're going hearsay.
I had a beer with a bloke ( a visiting professor, true story) in a gold coast hotel at the time
and he said he'd met Haneef's workmates
and they were outraged, and totally confident of his innocence, and totally happy to reemploy him (all as has been confirmed by subsequent press statements)

So, so what...

You think that Haneef is going to stroll around his workplace announcing that he maybe up to no good.....

Chat room conversation short time after Glasgow incident... " dont worry, they don't know anything about you".... hmmmmm what could that mean... hmmm any thoughts from the Haneef fan club ????

And then, a one way ticket to India.... but he 'says' he was really really going to buy another ticket once he got home.... just keep up that smile at the camera Haneef, just keep smiling..... because Haneef 'says' it, then it must be true....

 

[2020hindsight]

well since we're going hearsay.
I had a beer with a bloke ( a visiting professor, true story) in a gold coast hotel at the time
and he said he'd met Haneef's workmates
and they were outraged, and totally confident of his innocence, and totally happy to reemploy him (all as has been confirmed by subsequent press statements)

as above (and as per the post below) - he'd be welcomed back by the hospital.

btw, If we (unreasonably) frighten away Indian and other foreign doctors, then be prepared to have a shortage of doctors. (and so much for any improvement in medical facilities).

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/22/2125952.htm
'Welcome addition'

A Queensland Health executive says Dr Haneef's notoriety should not prevent him returning to the Gold Coast Hospital.

Gold Coast Health Service District manager Jeff Hollywood says Dr Haneef would be a welcome addition to the hospital staff, provided his visa and medical registration are in order.

He says Dr Haneef's public profile would not be an impediment to the efficient running of the Southport complex.

"He has gone through a process whereby the allegations made against him, he was cleared of those and he is clear to work in Australia," he said.

"I accept the umpire's decision, my responsibility is to employ staff who are competent and skilled and Dr Haneef fulfils those requirements."

He says Dr Haneef was well respected at the Southport complex.

"Other senior medical staff here were assessing him during his training and our executive director of medical services for the district has reviewed him, and his performance in the workplace and the quality of his work and he is a very, very good doctor," he said.

 

[explod]

I agree with what you said Explod, but ill always be suspicious of a guy who chooses to live in another country and leave his wife and kids at "home".

6.5b people on this planet 20m here, we can well afford to be choosy, no bigotry involved, just an opinion amoung the many hundreds ......

I always fancy putting the shoe on the other foot and walking around, now If i deserted my family and moved to India and found myself in similar circumstances, I wonder what public opinion would be ?

Yes we do live in a great part of the world, very different to the overcrowded place from whence the Doctor hails. Why wouldn't he and others like him prefer to be in Australia, dont' get your point on that. And given a better start would one day have got his wife out here as well. We need good doctors in this country and he was one of them.

Cheers and complements of the season to all. Have to go to bed so Santa can COME. If I could get so lucky at my age.

 

[2020hindsight]

So, so what...

You think that Haneef is going to stroll around his workplace announcing that he maybe up to no good.....

he was first asked thousands of questions the day he was arrested
(the AFP themselves say he was no threat here.)

Then 200 police worked on his belongings/ computer etc for a few weeks

LIZ JACKSON: Police now had over 200 officers looking for evidence against Haneef, sifting through whatever they could find in bags from material taken from his apartment, his books, his papers, his phone records, all his financial transactions, and thousands of pages of material downloaded from the computer that Dr Haneef had left with his friend and colleague, Dr Asif Ali, just before he left for the airport.

Then he was quizzed ( with lawyer) for 12.5 hours about the same matters , plus his account transactions etc

PETER RUSSO (to Liz Jackson): And then the second questioning period started about 4:15 in the afternoon, I think.

LIZ JACKSON: And you were present?

PETER RUSSO: And I was there for that.

LIZ JACKSON: The questioning was conducted at the Homicide Squad, Queensland Police Headquarters.

It ran for 12 hours and 27 minutes.

and they found nothing - and/or were satisfied with his answers.

Anyway, there will be an inquiry - so might as well wait till then ( imo)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/22/2125952.htm

The Rudd Government has promised to hold an inquiry into the case.

Dr Haneef's lawyer Peter Russo says he hopes his client will decide to return to Australia, but would understand if he goes elsewhere.

Mr Russo says his client has been vindicated by the Federal Court's decision.

"We've won each time we've gone into [it] so from that point of view it's very gratifying to get it to that point where we can start talking about when Mohammed can come back," he said.

"I think his best option is to finish his study at the Gold Coast Hospital.

 

[Superfly]

Your inference is scurrulous. Just saying that it is dangerous to speculate on anything other than the facts.

Well you would say that, knowing full well that the AFP can not release all they have, for this would reveal to much to the likes of Haneef. So Haneef's lawyers play the "nothing in Australia" card and he gets his visa back... what do you think something like " don't worry, they don't know anything about you" mean ?? or do you choose to forget that bit...

 

[explod]

Well you would say that, knowing full well that the AFP can not release all they have, for this would reveal to much to the likes of Haneef. So Haneef's lawyers play the "nothing in Australia" card and he gets his visa back... what do you think something like " don't worry, they don't know anything about you" mean ?? or do you choose to forget that bit...

Due to the bad press they recieved I am sure that the Feds would produce any relevant and factual evidence against Haneef of they had it. The war on the terror culture has tended to play on the "'cant' release due to national security reasons" or that it will give the game away idea to the point where most people believe that this approach is normal. Information about the activity of an individual or event has nothing to do with and would rarely give the game away on internal methods. In fact in this modern day of communications you can be assurred that all sides (good and bad) are well aware of investigative methodology and so called secrets of the trade.

Time to stop dreaming IMHO

 

[Superfly]

Due to the bad press they recieved I am sure that the Feds would produce any relevant and factual evidence against Haneef of they had it. The war on the terror culture has tended to play on the "'cant' release due to national security reasons" or that it will give the game away idea to the point where most people believe that this approach is normal. Information about the activity of an individual or event has nothing to do with and would rarely give the game away on internal methods. In fact in this modern day of communications you can be assurred that all sides (good and bad) are well aware of investigative methodology and so called secrets of the trade.

Time to stop dreaming IMHO

So you think the AFP is more worried about bad press than protecting the nation... thankfully that does not appear to be the case.

From the start the AFP had said that nothing will be released, and it maybe due to o/s considerations....

What do you think something like " don't worry, they don't know anything about you" mean ???????? on a chat room just a short time after the Glasgow incident... hmmmmmm

 

[explod]

So you think the AFP is more worried about bad press than protecting the nation... thankfully that does not appear to be the case.

From the start the AFP had said that nothing will be released, and it maybe due to o/s considerations....

What do you think something like " don't worry, they don't know anything about you" mean ???????? on a chat room just a short time after the Glasgow incident... hmmmmmm

We can all pick up lines in communications and make it read or mean what we want to suit our own argument or purpose. I am probably doing it now for all you are to know.

One of my jobs was sorting out and reporting on corruption. Not saying any here but I do understand the shades of grey and the lengths people will go to to influence others or situations.

Australia has equal to the best police and security forces in the world and the AFP are part of that. At the senior level there is considerable interaction. Government politicisation and intereferance is what has caused a great deal of damage and the red herrings and clandestine subterfuge has been used to justify it. I feel confident that this will change with the new Government and the problems that we now discuss will soon go way.

 

[2020hindsight]

Superfly, I'm gonna wait till the enquiry into it.
That statement you've quoted does look a bit strange, but just too easy to quote out of context - and again, the AFP were happy he was no threat.

 

[chops_a_must]

Now I know I am asking for trouble here based on a number of posts in this thread but here goes....

I have a friend in the AFP in Canberra and also know a couple of policemen in Qld who are reasonably well up the totem pole. All have said the same story so I'm not sure I have much reason to doubt it (as they don't know each other).

Now comes the hard part - noone would tell me any particular facts, except for all claiming that there was evidence against the said Dr Haneef on the terror front. But apparently the chances of prosecution were not high, so the charges were dropped and took the softer option of deportation instead. If true, it is NOT a Howard or Rudd issue - it is a policing and court issue (on a side note, I really wish people would stop reading political subtexts into stories, it absolutely sh**'s me when people grind political axes or justify political beliefs that way without knowing a shred of the real issue or fact). I don't know specifics on this case and I know I'll probably cop it for providing hearsay here, but that is what I have heard like it or lump it.

Read your own conclusions and please please please don't shoot the messenger.

*Snicker*

Are these the same guys that said to their superiors that the evidence they had, notes in a journal, turned out to be their own interview notes? *Snicker*

Only to be told by higher ups that it was in fact Haneef's notes? When it was later revealed that it was the policemans? *Snicker*

So you think the AFP is more worried about bad press than protecting the nation... thankfully that does not appear to be the case.

After the Corby case, yes, that's definitely one way of putting it. Considering a lot of higher ups were thought to be political in nature...

 

[chops_a_must]

I agree with what you said Explod, but ill always be suspicious of a guy who chooses to live in another country and leave his wife and kids at "home".

So are you going to be paranoid about the tens of thousands of workers up north are you? The sad fact is it is easier to get a visa if you leave your missus at home.

But hell, if you're that paranoid, you should be worried about someone like me. Lol! A red under your bed and all the rest.

Christ, this thread reads like a remedial class transcript.

 

[numbercruncher]

So are you going to be paranoid about the tens of thousands of workers up north are you? The sad fact is it is easier to get a visa if you leave your missus at home.

But hell, if you're that paranoid, you should be worried about someone like me. Lol! A red under your bed and all the rest.

Christ, this thread reads like a remedial class transcript.

Im not being paranoid, just saying , I cant see how you can be an effective father and role model living halfway around the Globe ..... some things are more Important than money ... thats why im suspicious on this chap over and above the allegations against him

 

[chops_a_must]

Im not being paranoid, just saying , I cant see how you can be an effective father and role model living halfway around the Globe ..... some things are more Important than money ... thats why im suspicious on this chap over and above the allegations against him

Don't really see the difference between that and working on an oil rig, or on a mine site... or a lot of different occupations to be honest.

 

[explod]

Im not being paranoid, just saying , I cant see how you can be an effective father and role model living halfway around the Globe ..... some things are more Important than money ... thats why im suspicious on this chap over and above the allegations against him

I am sure that as his child gets older he would have his family together. People from poorer circumstances sometimes have to make huge sacrifices to ensure income to keep their family from poverty. The dedication and study required to become a medical doctor is huge and from his poorer background must have been enormous. That alone sets him apart as a person with considerable substance and worthy to have the benefit of doubt where no evidence to the contrary seems to exist.

It is not for us to judge this type of issue anyway, doing so puts us at the lower end of the social scale. Because someone does not fit our mold, why should we be suspicious. Although that too is ok, it is the judgement without real fact that I do not believe we are entitled to make.

Have a happy xmas day which is very much about charity to others and an opportunity to forgive.

 

[Superfly]

So are you going to be paranoid about the tens of thousands of workers up north are you? The sad fact is it is easier to get a visa if you leave your missus at home.

But hell, if you're that paranoid, you should be worried about someone like me. Lol! A red under your bed and all the rest.

Christ, this thread reads like a remedial class transcript.

You do not like it... then don't post on it, just go back to your May Day march with Rudd, comrade Chops.....

While we watch more tax payer money spent on this Indian Dr Haneef ....

 

[Superfly]

I am sure that as his child gets older he would have his family together. People from poorer circumstances sometimes have to make huge sacrifices to ensure income to keep their family from poverty. The dedication and study required to become a medical doctor is huge and from his poorer background must have been enormous. That alone sets him apart as a person with considerable substance and worthy to have the benefit of doubt where no evidence to the contrary seems to exist.

It is not for us to judge this type of issue anyway, doing so puts us at the lower end of the social scale. Because someone does not fit our mold, why should we be suspicious. Although that too is ok, it is the judgement without real fact that I do not believe we are entitled to make.

Have a happy xmas day which is very much about charity to others and an opportunity to forgive.

So kind... except the people cut down in Bali or in New York will not get a chance to stand with you or with their families and forgive... so lets get back to the real world....