Anyone currently using solar?
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Re: Anyone currently using solar
Interesting thread you've started MoXJO.
I've toyed with the idea, but still think the recovery of costs is years away, unless your a moderate to heavy user of light powered appliances...
Which bring us to the next point, energy in vs energy out.
If your house is converted to new fluroesent bulbs or led emitting lighting, running pc's, notebooks, radios, etc you'll find solar very efficient.
but running heavier appliances like tubetv's, plasmas, fridges, washers, microwave, hair dryers etc may be to heavy a drain on reserves.. unless your investing heaps of $$$ in panels and batteries.
The panels are still expensive, esp if your go for quality BP ones, deep cell batteries, etc, but sure in couple more years they will fall or be subsidised..
Also an viable alternative is small scale wind gererators, as the are more cost effecient and can compliment or subsitute the solar technology.
SevenFX
Interesting thread you've started MoXJO.
I've toyed with the idea, but still think the recovery of costs is years away, unless your a moderate to heavy user of light powered appliances...
Which bring us to the next point, energy in vs energy out.
If your house is converted to new fluroesent bulbs or led emitting lighting, running pc's, notebooks, radios, etc you'll find solar very efficient.
but running heavier appliances like tubetv's, plasmas, fridges, washers, microwave, hair dryers etc may be to heavy a drain on reserves.. unless your investing heaps of $$$ in panels and batteries.
The panels are still expensive, esp if your go for quality BP ones, deep cell batteries, etc, but sure in couple more years they will fall or be subsidised..
Also an viable alternative is small scale wind gererators, as the are more cost effecient and can compliment or subsitute the solar technology.
SevenFX
Nyden
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Re: Anyone currently using solar
My only concern for solar is way overpaying. It seems as if they're always developing a new form of catching the rays. I'd be concerned about spending 15k on a setup - only to have something far superior released in 4 years time at a fraction of the cost.
The thing is, in theory you wouldn't need a lot of batteries; just run straight from it (after voltage conversion, etc) - and sell the rest back to your grid. Obviously this is somewhat inefficient; as the energy company would be buying it from you cheaper than you pay them - but, well, it all really depends on your setup I guess.
Buy enough of the suckers, and you'll be getting an energy check every 3 months, instead of a bill!
My only concern for solar is way overpaying. It seems as if they're always developing a new form of catching the rays. I'd be concerned about spending 15k on a setup - only to have something far superior released in 4 years time at a fraction of the cost.
The thing is, in theory you wouldn't need a lot of batteries; just run straight from it (after voltage conversion, etc) - and sell the rest back to your grid. Obviously this is somewhat inefficient; as the energy company would be buying it from you cheaper than you pay them - but, well, it all really depends on your setup I guess.
Buy enough of the suckers, and you'll be getting an energy check every 3 months, instead of a bill!
Re: Anyone currently using solar
I think I first looked at solar in 1992 and was shocked at the price and the piddly amount of energy it produced. Really there should have been more investment in this area as it hasn't advanced as fast as you would have thought.
At the moment solco sent me a list of prices rebate knocks about $8k off the price for shareholders.They also make you sign ownership of the REC (renewable energy certificates) for the discount.REC's are a tradeable commodity, each representing 1 megawatt hour of pollution free electricity generation.
Anyone know how much you recieve a year off REC's? might be a nice addition to the power produced.
system size-----average energy ----greenhouse-----------price
------------------- per day----------gas savings---------(after rebate)
1020w----------------5kWh------------1.8 tonnes--------$3750
1530W----------------7.kWh------------2.7 t-------------$7940
4080W----------------20kWh------------7.3t-------------$27910
4760W----------------25kWh------------9.1t-------------$33380
I think I first looked at solar in 1992 and was shocked at the price and the piddly amount of energy it produced. Really there should have been more investment in this area as it hasn't advanced as fast as you would have thought.
At the moment solco sent me a list of prices rebate knocks about $8k off the price for shareholders.They also make you sign ownership of the REC (renewable energy certificates) for the discount.REC's are a tradeable commodity, each representing 1 megawatt hour of pollution free electricity generation.
Anyone know how much you recieve a year off REC's? might be a nice addition to the power produced.
system size-----average energy ----greenhouse-----------price
------------------- per day----------gas savings---------(after rebate)
1020w----------------5kWh------------1.8 tonnes--------$3750
1530W----------------7.kWh------------2.7 t-------------$7940
4080W----------------20kWh------------7.3t-------------$27910
4760W----------------25kWh------------9.1t-------------$33380
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Re: Anyone currently using solar
It takes about 20 years to recover your investment in the solar cells,...
The best use of solar energy is hot water systems as hot water can account for up to 40% of the energy used in the house hold so your return on investment is only about 5years,..
I looked into to solar panels and it was going to cost over $20,000 for enough panels to cover my entire electric bill and my electric bill is only $1,200 per year so the saving wouldn't even cover the interest payments on the loan I would have to take out.
so there are much better things you can do with your money if you are looking at the economic side rather than the environmental side,...
If you want to save money then get solar hotwater, and convert your car to LPG Auto gas,.... thats what I did total cost for both after government rebates was $4500 and the annual saving is $2480,.......
It takes about 20 years to recover your investment in the solar cells,...
The best use of solar energy is hot water systems as hot water can account for up to 40% of the energy used in the house hold so your return on investment is only about 5years,..
I looked into to solar panels and it was going to cost over $20,000 for enough panels to cover my entire electric bill and my electric bill is only $1,200 per year so the saving wouldn't even cover the interest payments on the loan I would have to take out.
so there are much better things you can do with your money if you are looking at the economic side rather than the environmental side,...
If you want to save money then get solar hotwater, and convert your car to LPG Auto gas,.... thats what I did total cost for both after government rebates was $4500 and the annual saving is $2480,.......
Re: Anyone currently using solar
These day a reasonable setup for most houses would cost under 10k and you would start saving/recovering money straight away.
There not much technology one can buy anymore that won't be superseeded in 4 years, which IMO is a long time in the technology sector.
Also I think a decent supply of batteries would be essential to capture erergy while the Sun Shines.
SevenFX
These day a reasonable setup for most houses would cost under 10k and you would start saving/recovering money straight away.
There not much technology one can buy anymore that won't be superseeded in 4 years, which IMO is a long time in the technology sector.
Also I think a decent supply of batteries would be essential to capture erergy while the Sun Shines.
SevenFX
professor_frink
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Re: Anyone currently using solar
morning tekmann,
do you(or anyone else) have some links for more info about solar/wind generators? Currently looking for a house and would most definitely interested in doing something like that if it was worth doing.
morning tekmann,
do you(or anyone else) have some links for more info about solar/wind generators? Currently looking for a house and would most definitely interested in doing something like that if it was worth doing.
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Re: Anyone currently using solar
Under normal circumstances solar panels on the roof will be more expensive (even after the huge subsidies) than grid power.
The only time they make financial sense is either for very small loads where the cost of connection to the mains exceeds the cost of going solar or where mains power isn't an option.
Simply keeping the grid intact, even with zero power use, is about half the cost of supplying electricity. That cost won't go away even if everyone goes solar.
At present, electricity utilities have an incentive to discourage solar since fixed costs are recovered through consumption charges. Hence the general discouragement of anything other than using lots of electricity. That could be changed but I know for a fact that other utilities watched very closely what happened when a different charging system that removed the incentive to sell more power was tried in Tasmania. Suffice to say I very much doubt we'll see that idea come back for quite a while however much sense it might make.
If I wanted to generate power at home then I'd be looking seriously at wind since that is massively cheaper than solar photovoltaic. And of course get the solar / heat pump hot water etc too since it's cheaper to save a kW than to generate one at home.
If your reason for wanting to do it is to help the environment then you'll get far more CO2 saved for your $ if you just buy green power from the utility.
Under normal circumstances solar panels on the roof will be more expensive (even after the huge subsidies) than grid power.
The only time they make financial sense is either for very small loads where the cost of connection to the mains exceeds the cost of going solar or where mains power isn't an option.
Simply keeping the grid intact, even with zero power use, is about half the cost of supplying electricity. That cost won't go away even if everyone goes solar.
At present, electricity utilities have an incentive to discourage solar since fixed costs are recovered through consumption charges. Hence the general discouragement of anything other than using lots of electricity. That could be changed but I know for a fact that other utilities watched very closely what happened when a different charging system that removed the incentive to sell more power was tried in Tasmania. Suffice to say I very much doubt we'll see that idea come back for quite a while however much sense it might make.
If I wanted to generate power at home then I'd be looking seriously at wind since that is massively cheaper than solar photovoltaic. And of course get the solar / heat pump hot water etc too since it's cheaper to save a kW than to generate one at home.
If your reason for wanting to do it is to help the environment then you'll get far more CO2 saved for your $ if you just buy green power from the utility.
Re: Anyone currently using solar
This link below has a lots of Information on choices under left hand menu titled "Energy Use"
But the $ figures reflect having it all done by someone else, as opposed to you self installing and saving heaps.
http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/yourhome/technical/fs48.htm
EDIT: More
http://www.renewablestore.com.au/
But wait there more..:
SevenFX
This link below has a lots of Information on choices under left hand menu titled "Energy Use"
But the $ figures reflect having it all done by someone else, as opposed to you self installing and saving heaps.
http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/yourhome/technical/fs48.htm
EDIT: More
http://www.renewablestore.com.au/
But wait there more..
:SevenFX
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Re: Anyone currently using solar
The 10K system wouldn't come close to covering the energy needs of the average family,... whats the daily kilowatt output of a $10,000 system,
and if it does cover the families energy needs then they probally don't use enough power to warrent spending $10,000 in the first place
As I said before,..... Converting the family car to LPG Autogas will bring them 100 times more in savings than converting to solar,... especially when you take into consideration the interest on the loan for the solar,..(and if there is no loan then the interest they would otherwise earn)
The 10K system wouldn't come close to covering the energy needs of the average family,... whats the daily kilowatt output of a $10,000 system,
and if it does cover the families energy needs then they probally don't use enough power to warrent spending $10,000 in the first place
As I said before,..... Converting the family car to LPG Autogas will bring them 100 times more in savings than converting to solar,... especially when you take into consideration the interest on the loan for the solar,..(and if there is no loan then the interest they would otherwise earn)
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Re: Anyone currently using solar
I haven't checked the current price but generally in the range $30 - $40 per REC with constant variation (just like the stock market).
Re: Anyone currently using solar
Yeah prob right, as I was only think of my usage and situtation, though I think if your handy and had a desire to keep costs down, you could setup yourself and source material from right wholesale suppliers for close to that to support small family.
But these energy sources would require you to rethink how you use power in house moreso as opposed to generat power comparable to current supply.
Yes LPG is a great option with gov rebate., by comparison, but one step further and no taxes (min) when you convert to CNG straight from your house.. (but off topic here)
SevenFX
Yeah prob right, as I was only think of my usage and situtation, though I think if your handy and had a desire to keep costs down, you could setup yourself and source material from right wholesale suppliers for close to that to support small family.
But these energy sources would require you to rethink how you use power in house moreso as opposed to generat power comparable to current supply.
Yes LPG is a great option with gov rebate., by comparison, but one step further and no taxes (min) when you convert to CNG straight from your house.. (but off topic here)
SevenFX
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Re: Anyone currently using solar
CNG (Compressed natural gas) has alot of hurdles to over over come before it will be widly accepted.
Such as
-fuel tank capcity, CNG can not easliy be liquified like LPG so to get the same vehicle range you would need almost 2.5 times larger fuel tanks,
-Fuelling depots there is simply not the refuelling infurstructure available
-cng is best suited for large vehicles like buses and trucks but a truck converted to cng carring capacity is greatly redused because of the weight and size of the tanks,.... and in the transport industry the more you can carry the more you earn,...
having said that,...natural gas does have a great future as a transport fuel, there is technolgy out there that can convert natural gas to a substance almost identical to diesel, but that a few years off.
CNG (Compressed natural gas) has alot of hurdles to over over come before it will be widly accepted.
Such as
-fuel tank capcity, CNG can not easliy be liquified like LPG so to get the same vehicle range you would need almost 2.5 times larger fuel tanks,
-Fuelling depots there is simply not the refuelling infurstructure available
-cng is best suited for large vehicles like buses and trucks but a truck converted to cng carring capacity is greatly redused because of the weight and size of the tanks,.... and in the transport industry the more you can carry the more you earn,...
having said that,...natural gas does have a great future as a transport fuel, there is technolgy out there that can convert natural gas to a substance almost identical to diesel, but that a few years off.
Re: Anyone currently using solar
To lower supply charges, cooperatives with solar panels could be formed, to pay one supply payment and distribute electricity to everybody in close proximity.
I wander if grid people could allow that?
And any private attempt can be easily picked up by them due to huge production – consumption swings.
To lower supply charges, cooperatives with solar panels could be formed, to pay one supply payment and distribute electricity to everybody in close proximity.
I wander if grid people could allow that?
And any private attempt can be easily picked up by them due to huge production – consumption swings.
professor_frink
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Re: Anyone currently using solar
Cheers takmann
This link below has a lots of Information on choices under left hand menu titled "Energy Use"
But the $ figures reflect having it all done by someone else, as opposed to you self installing and saving heaps.
http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/yourhome/technical/fs48.htm
EDIT: More
http://www.renewablestore.com.au/
But wait there more..
SevenFX
Cheers takmann
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Re: Anyone currently using solar
solar may not be competitive now but it will soon.
IPART just allowed electricity supplies to increase there charges 20% to cover infratructure works, with another determination due soon word is the supply changes may go up another 30%.
Thats not even taking into account any increase in electricity cost that will happen in the near future. We need a new power station in NSW, coal may be rising very little compared to toher things but the drought is actually causing the generators to run at much lower levels because they can't cool the generators with limited water supplies.
With renewables coming in aswell i wouldn't be suprised if household electricity bills wouldn't double in the next 5 years
solar may not be competitive now but it will soon.
IPART just allowed electricity supplies to increase there charges 20% to cover infratructure works, with another determination due soon word is the supply changes may go up another 30%.
Thats not even taking into account any increase in electricity cost that will happen in the near future. We need a new power station in NSW, coal may be rising very little compared to toher things but the drought is actually causing the generators to run at much lower levels because they can't cool the generators with limited water supplies.
With renewables coming in aswell i wouldn't be suprised if household electricity bills wouldn't double in the next 5 years
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Re: Anyone currently using solar
also guys exporting solar power to the grid from domestic premises is just not cost effective and will NEVER work.
When you export power you have to pay the network changes associated with distributing the power also you have to take into account the impacts on your nieghbours and areas electricity system when you start trying to pump power the other way.
Heaps of high rise building in north sydney are installing generators on site which is supposed to be more efficient but fact is they still require a backup supply with reserved capacity to cater for their load if their generator fails.
Interesting fact Sydney CBD actually has enough generating capacity to supply all the load of the area but because of all the problems associated with generating there aren't used.
If large generators start pumping out power to the grid you have big protection issues which require large up front capital and are difficult to operate.
The only way domestic generation works is when a suburb is built to cater for it up front like some of these new lend lease developments with local power and heat generation.
also guys exporting solar power to the grid from domestic premises is just not cost effective and will NEVER work.
When you export power you have to pay the network changes associated with distributing the power also you have to take into account the impacts on your nieghbours and areas electricity system when you start trying to pump power the other way.
Heaps of high rise building in north sydney are installing generators on site which is supposed to be more efficient but fact is they still require a backup supply with reserved capacity to cater for their load if their generator fails.
Interesting fact Sydney CBD actually has enough generating capacity to supply all the load of the area but because of all the problems associated with generating there aren't used.
If large generators start pumping out power to the grid you have big protection issues which require large up front capital and are difficult to operate.
The only way domestic generation works is when a suburb is built to cater for it up front like some of these new lend lease developments with local power and heat generation.
Re: Anyone currently using solar
Okay roughly about $40k to run my house off solar. What’s the lifespan or even the effective life of these things? If its 25 years that’s about $1600 a year with a possible diminishing rate of elec supply. I love the idea of solar, have to see what they are like in another few years. Really you need to design your house round these things. I’m surprised they haven’t brought out a system with aircon units given all the neg publicity air cons get.
Okay roughly about $40k to run my house off solar. What’s the lifespan or even the effective life of these things? If its 25 years that’s about $1600 a year with a possible diminishing rate of elec supply. I love the idea of solar, have to see what they are like in another few years. Really you need to design your house round these things. I’m surprised they haven’t brought out a system with aircon units given all the neg publicity air cons get.
Re: Anyone currently using solar
I was going to put solar in last year... but then after discussions with people in the renewable energy sector, realised that paying for 100% green power actually does more benefit than anything else, so thats what i am now doing.
I still want to put solar/something renewable in one day, but that will depend on technology and capability to generate / store power for 24hr consumption. My aim is to be completely off the grid for power, and also be reasonably self sufficient with water!
Its obvious we can't rely on politicians to fix any of this
I was going to put solar in last year... but then after discussions with people in the renewable energy sector, realised that paying for 100% green power actually does more benefit than anything else, so thats what i am now doing.
I still want to put solar/something renewable in one day, but that will depend on technology and capability to generate / store power for 24hr consumption. My aim is to be completely off the grid for power, and also be reasonably self sufficient with water!
Its obvious we can't rely on politicians to fix any of this
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