Petition for regional Qld daylight saving trial - ends 10th November

[Whiskers]

I personally really look forward to daylight saving - take the pooch to the beach after work etc.

Carefull 2020, sharks are more active in close in the evening and they like little pooches that puddle in the water.

You better vote vote against DST and take the little pooch to the beach in the morning. :

 

[2020hindsight]

Carefull 2020, sharks are more active in close in the evening and they like little pooches that puddle in the water.

You better vote vote against DST and take the little pooch to the beach in the morning. :

ok m8 -
I'll throw in a few cats as "bully" - or rather as something to keep the sharks busy while I rescue the dog

PS Not sure your theory stands up to close scrutiny - I recall a shark attack at Noosa back in the 60's - early one morning - pre- breakfast. The shark bit off a bloke's leg whilst he was on a board. - when he made it to the beach, the shark beached itself chasing the blood trail up the sand

I presume "pooch puddling" is something like "dog paddling"

 

[Duckman#72]

Duck, - in your case ! - you might even consider the opposite - daylight saving in the mornings! - i.e. "spring (clocks go) back" , "fall (clocks go) forward" -

that way, in summer you could play a full 18 holes of golf before breakfast mate

Now you're talking 2020!!

Although give it another month and I'll be able to play 18 holes before work anyway!!!

Did someone in this thread say that in summer on the GC the sun goes down by 6:00-30pm? What crap!!!

Duckman

 

[2020hindsight]

Now you're talking 2020!!

Although give it another month and I'll be able to play 18 holes before work anyway!!!

well don't try it on a cold winter morning - losing your balls is no fun.


like the joke about Ray charles betting some bloke a round - and insisting they play at night etc etc

 

[2020hindsight]

Carefull 2020, sharks are more active in close in the evening and they like little pooches that puddle in the water.

one thing about shark attacks whisk - there's no point in worrying about it - the one that gets you, you won't know anything about anyways - goes for (most) dogs as well

Dog Attacks Shark

 

[Smurf1976]

Regardless of daylight saving you should get another job. Vote for Rudd and you may not have to work those hours. You need time for living too. There isn't all that much of it, don't waste a minute.

I don't do those hours all the time but it's reality. Doesn't bother me at the moment but I wouldn't want to be 60 and still doing it that's for sure. The good point is lots of days off and nobody gives a damn about deciding to have two hours for lunch etc. Staff turnover is pretty low.

There are quite a few jobs with unpredictable working hours. Fire fighters, police, doctors etc can unexpectedly end up working incredibly long hours. Even powerline workers (not what I do) end up sleeping on the ground next to the truck (since it's more comfortable than trying to sleep in the truck) rather than waste time travelling home when there's major damage to repair.

All those people benefit from having shops that actually open when the customers want them to.

 

[2020hindsight]

PS Smurf made a great point on another thread - why the hell aren't the 6 months of daylight saving (in those states that use it) equally positioned around the longest day (22 Dec)? I had just assumed that was the case until he pointed it out lol - god we're idiots

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/dst_times.shtml
in 1967 we had more sense !! (at least in Tas)..
1 Oct = 2.8 months before
and goes till 31 Mar = 3.2 months after
HOW EASY IS THAT ! - 6 months of DLS Oct to Mar inclusive !!
almost centrally bracketed around the summer (Dec) solstice
- PS maybe adjusted to fall on a weekend of course

These days, Tasmania is still the most logical ...
7 Oct = 2.5 months before
and goes till 6 Apr = 3.5 months after.

VIC, ACT, NSW, SA
28 Oct = 2 months before
and goes till 6 Apr = 3.5 months after.

WA is different again ..
28 Oct = 2 months before
and goes till 30Mar = 3 months after.

 

[2020hindsight]

btw -
DLS HELPED US WIN 2 WARS!!
(or was that a coincidence ?)

(I think that's called "playing the RSL card" )

 

[Smurf1976]

btw -
DLS HELPED US WIN 2 WARS!!
(or was that a coincidence ?)

(I think that's called "playing the RSL card" )

Also helped win the war against power cuts in 1967-68 in Tas. Indeed that was the sole reason it was introduced - it had nothing at all to do with lifestyle.

The actual power saving is only about 0.25% but doing something that was then considered drastic and war-like was a means of ramming home the "switch off" message. Daylight savings and numerous other emergency measures were implemented without debate and almost without warning.

 

[doctorj]

DLS HELPED US WIN 2 WARS!!

Clearly the cows didn't play a very big part

Won't somebody think of the cows!

 

[sails]

Sorry Sails, but I don't have to feel guilty about that. Afterall it is the advocates of DST in the southern states that upset the status quo and natural order of things…..

No need to feel guilty, Whiskers – just hoping you might realise there is another view point that some people are genuinely disadvantaged with the current situation and would like to see change.

With Qld out of sync with the other South Eastern states for six months of the year, it can also negatively impact work efficiency and effectiveness - it's just not all about leisure!

 

[2020hindsight]

Clearly the cows didn't play a very big part

Won't somebody think of the cows!

lol, - you're talking about those old fashioned cows doc?

These days they have these cows which are much more cosmopolitan than they used to be

when it comes to DLS, it depends how far "down udder" you live

 

[Stan 101]

Personally I don't care either way on fantasy time (daylight savings). If I was to be pushed, I'd not change for the reason I prefer the extra light in the morning. IN the north it takes that bit longer to start cooling down those few extra degrees at night. So if there was DLS it would be just that bit warmer trying to get to sleep. No real issue, though...

From a business point of view it is a royal pain to effectively lose 2 hours trading with both NSW and VIC. Especially in high population places like the Gold Coast. Burleigh is still on QLD time and drive south a few KM and it's NSW time.

As for the person who posted earlier about WA not having an issue with business being 2 hours difference, that is true. It is also true that there is a vast difference in location to the eastern states.. You don't drive 20km to be in a new time zone.

How about splitting QLD time zone in summer west of say 100km west of Charters Tower? Do the math on where to break the time zone so the least amount of people ar affected..It really wouldn't be that difficult.


cheers,

 

[gfresh]

Why don't you come up here and work those extra hours at night or weekend then! Talk about bloody poor time management. If you cant get to the supermarket between 8.00am and 9.00pm weekdays and 5.00pm saturdays you really do deserve a medal for imcompetent time management.

I do live up here? I work 12 hours a day sometimes (because I'm lazy I guess ), and finding the time to shop during daylight hours is difficult.. I also tend to find that on the weekends, I usually find the supermarkets crowded with the very elderly, slow, and an inconvenient use of my time queing for the checkout. They are quite used to 1960, and do not wish to change. Thankfully I live right near the border, and I can just duck across the border to get the convenience I require with later shopping hours. Why I have to do this because one state has one set of rules, and another has another seems strange. This equally applies to daylight savings time.

I assume by 'poor time managment' the whole of New South Wales and Victoria also suffers this?

All I can assume Whiskers by your staunch disapproval of the concept is that you're part of the older generation and set in your ways, and change to this radical concept of daylight savings would be difficult. Having experienced both, I know DST isn't the end of the world as many older Queenslanders point out. World is changing, and the work habbits of this generation have changed, which means people have less time available for regular activities, work longer hours, and consistency is important in a country-wide, and global marketplace.

 

[Whiskers]

No need to feel guilty, Whiskers – just hoping you might realise there is another view point that some people are genuinely disadvantaged with the current situation and would like to see change.

With Qld out of sync with the other South Eastern states for six months of the year, it can also negatively impact work efficiency and effectiveness - it's just not all about leisure!

Sails, I accept it is not all about leasure although I think most people relate to DST in terms of leasure time. I have referred to the issue more generally as a time management issue, with the emphasis of management being efficiency and effectiveness and also in this case a sub section, change management. The essence of the problem is that in Qld at least we get more dissadvantages and little or no advantages, speaking GDP wise as opposed to simplistic population wise because so much of our productivity comes from rural areas.

Really though it is the management of the issue that is the real issue. For the most part we see vested interest groups wanting to change things for their benifit with an attitude that if we can get the numbers to win a vote, then too bad for the rest they just have to wear it. That doesn't go down well as a social attitude, political policy or a management technique.

As smurf and 2020 have pointed out above, even the states that have DST can't even syncronise their start and finish times and they all have different reasons for wanting it. Smurf mentioned a valid reason that I think people would consider changing, energy consumption, but I don't believe having it dumped on you because the state gov failed to manage energy policy well is a reasonable way to go.

Ok, lets start from the beginning in a time (change) management fashion. There must be others out there who are just as well or better qualified than I in Group Facillitation Management and Conflict Resolution. Feel free to chip in.

The problem solving approach to conflict resolution.
The 'magic' formula is; Assertion + Cooperation = Problem Solving.
1. Acknowledge there is a conflict
2. Identify and acknowledge each party's concerns and goals.
3. Identify alternative solutions and their consequences for each party.
4. Select the alternative that best needs the concerns and goals of each party.
5. Implement the alternative selected and evaluate the results.

Highlight Topic - Acknowledge that other parties may have issues.
Some people want a change, they say to DST. What really needs to happen is to start asking the right questions if you expect to get to the real issues and get the best answers to solve the real problem. Most people I hear are talking about increasing their available leasure time in the afternoon. Hence the brunt of my responses... change your own circumstances to fit the lifestyle you want.

So, the issue could be more leasure time in the afternoon in summer, or to start work earlier so you don't have to suffer so much in the heat of the day, or to sprend less time travelling by avoiding peak hour, or to disperse peak hour to save infrastructure costs, energy costs, etc.

Form a group to resolve issues.
This aught to be a representative group of people covering the community and the whole gambit of issues. If you expect the outcome to be effective and efficient you must allow input from every affected party, ie don't stack the floor, ask for organisations to nominate representatives.

Unless the proponets of DST in QLD do this honestly and fairly, they might get DST for a year or two again, before it riles the disaffected so badly that they loose control and the concept is thrown out never to be looked at again. And I reitterate don't prejudge the outcome. DST is a perceived outcome, not the real issue or issues

If I have been a bit terse with some it is because they use selfish, irrational, or dumb lodgic and come across in a domineering and or inconsiderate manner to impose their will. We will not resolve problems if loud people are allowed to dominate the floor.

The most important thing here is to select a competent conflict resolution facilitator who is acceptable to all.

Explain outcome
Let the facilitator do their thing and control the proceedure.

For the want more leisure time issue, the outcome might be to change work hours to have more leisure time in the afternoon. Note, that doesn't necessairly mean DST. As I have said before and I have seen before, workplaces have come to agreement to start early and finish early on fridays, or to allow staggered start and finish hours or flexitime. For an energy saving issue the outcome might be to save State energy costs without adversely affecting the lifestyle or business costs of the state.

Prioritise issues
After all issues have been identified, the group needs to prioritise those issues. This may involve some credible calculation or information of effects on things like leasure time, health, energy, productivity, business and tax revenue etc, before people can prioritise them.

Outline an adgenda.
Decide on the time required, number and place of meetings and completion time.

Then it is important to let the facilitator do their thing.
It is a skill and particular processes to work through from here that a good facilitator will go through to brainstorm the issues and ideas, selection, testing, reflecting and confirming the resolution.

Sails, that is the sort of work that will be needed to get a result that will stick and last. A few business people or politicans getting a promotion and simple survey going might one day get DST introduced again, but will get tossed out fairly quickly for decades again unless they pay attention to the dissafected, and open their minds to the possibility that DST may not be the solution to their perceived and labeled 'problem'.

 

[Julia]

Hey, that's what we need to run the country: a good facilitator!
Seriously, in describing so well the dispute resolution process, Whiskers, you have described a great way to run Australia.
Ah, dream on, I guess.

 

[Whiskers]

I do live up here? I work 12 hours a day sometimes (because I'm lazy I guess ), and finding the time to shop during daylight hours is difficult.. I also tend to find that on the weekends,

That is a classic time management issue on your part gfresh. If you choose to work 12 hours a day, for presumably the better income, then by default you accept the downside issues with your decision, obviously that other people are going to knock off work or close up shop at their chosen or regulated time and do other things such as have a social life.

I stand corrected, but I think the Gold Coast did have twenty four hour trading for awhile some years ago, but it proved unprofitable for many small operators with the concern that they would be forced out of business and the big chains monopolise the industry. If there was a genuine commercial interest and benifit more stores would be open longer hours.

The problem with your arguement is that you are selecting a small tourist area which may justify certain businesses opening twenty four hours and transposing that statewide.

Thankfully I live right near the border, and I can just duck across the border to get the convenience I require with later shopping hours.

But really you don't have a problem getting to the shops. Youre just cranky that all the shops don't open to suit your 'unusual' work hours.

I usually find the supermarkets crowded with the very elderly, slow, and an inconvenient use of my time queing for the checkout. They are quite used to 1960, and do not wish to change.

It is condecending attitudes like this that blow your integrity and credability away. Next thing you'll want is to ban the elderly, slow, handicapped or anyone else that isn't on your 'frequency' from the supermarkets at the time you want to be there.

Why don't you let the shops know what time you are coming so they can clear all the elderly, slow etc out of the checkouts... and tell me what they say to you. I know already...**** off.

Why I have to do this because one state has one set of rules, and another has another seems strange.

Well that is what a state is. You will find the rules different across the border for shopping hours, driving licenses, traffic offences, state taxes, building developments, enviornmental issues, rail gauges, petrol taxes, vehicle registration, criminal offences etc etc etc.

This equally applies to daylight savings time.

Ditto

I assume by 'poor time managment' the whole of New South Wales and Victoria also suffers this?

You might translate your idiosyncricies to other people, but you would probably be wrong again.

All I can assume Whiskers by your staunch disapproval of the concept

Wrong again: Presumptious. I dissaprove of the methodology used and consequently the outcome, to solve a perceived problem.

is that you're part of the older generation and set in your ways,

Wrong again: Presumptious. Discriminitary opinion. I am very contempory, well educated, and some people even consider my thinking is often ahead of the paradigm shift.

and change to this radical concept of daylight savings would be difficult.

Wrong again: Presumptious. Some people even consider my thinking is often ahead of the paradigm shift.

Having experienced both, I know DST isn't the end of the world as many older Queenslanders point out.

Those old Queenslanders as you so disparigingnly put it, and not so old Queenslanders have tried DST before (refer to 2020's post) and rejected it. It was the end of the world for DST here though.

World is changing, and the work habbits of this generation have changed, which means people have less time available for regular activities, work longer hours, and consistency is important in a country-wide, and global marketplace.

Well that may be true, but changing for the sake of change is not smart. Changing just because someone else has, is less smart, and changing the wrong things in responce to an incorectly perceived problem is even less smart, and expecting the world around you to change because you cannot or won't consider changing some aspect of your circumstances is even more less smart.

 

[Whiskers]

Hey, that's what we need to run the country: a good facilitator!
Seriously, in describing so well the dispute resolution process, Whiskers, you have described a great way to run Australia.
Ah, dream on, I guess.

Yes, if only.

Actually, and I guess ironically, considering how Qld is being run lately, I got my particular knowledge of conflict resolution through a government program years ago and the facilitator trainer was a West Australian.

 

[Mrs Mackie]

There is a similar debate about QLD daylight savings over here: http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37079

Nothing mentioned about cows though.

 

[sails]

Petition is now closed with 77,074 signatures - by far the biggest when compared with other closed petitions ... http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/EPetitions_qld/ClosedEPetitions.aspx?LIndex=2

Not a bad result considering it appears the media did not pick this one up to ensure all affected Queenslanders had an opportunity to have their say. I'm guessing that many did not know this petition even existed. We only heard of it a few days ago though an email sent by a friend.

Yes, Whiskers, I'm sure due process will be followed, but hopefully the disadvantages affecting many working Queenslanders who find themselves out of sync with the southern states for six months each year will also be taken into consideration this time.