Petition for regional Qld daylight saving trial - ends 10th November

[Duckman#72]

Not really. Hopefully a small number of people's lack of flexibility won't prevent the majority from enjoying daylight saving in Qld.

Hopefully it never comes in.

I play golf in the mornings and am back at home, showered and helping to gets kids ready for school by 7:00am. Not as easy to do with DLS. Even now without DLS, I can leave work at 5:00 (yeah right!!) and have 1.5 hours of sunlight before dark sets in properly. Heaps of time for gardening and kicking the footy.

Not everyone wants the sunlight at the end of the day. And as a parent of 4 children - let me tell you - I don't!!!

Just as others cannot see why you would NOT want it - I cannot see why you WOULD want it.

 

[shaunnell]

You can. Just get up or go to work an hour earlier, (talk to your employer or negotiate a workplace agreement) without disrupting the rest of us that manage to work with nature just fine.

Not as easy as you suggest. Our company, like many others, have a headoffice in Sydney. Others will have their headoffice in Melbourne. Even others may not have a headoffice but have customers, suppliers and business contacts in those states. If QLD adopted DLS then the whole Easter Seaboard would be on the same time all year around.

Sure, some people may be disadvantaged but this is a democracy and the majority want it. We should at least triall it!

The only argument against DLS is surfers cannot get their morning surf in before work I suppose they could always go for an evening surf.

 

[MS+Tradesim]

Since i trade the ASX and it runs on DLS it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other. However, as a political issue in QLD...

 

[Whiskers]

We should at least triall it!

We have trialed it in Qld... and the notion of two time zones in Qld has been mooted before too.

Not as easy as you suggest. Our company, like many others, have a headoffice in Sydney. Others will have their headoffice in Melbourne. Even others may not have a headoffice but have customers, suppliers and business contacts in those states.

That gets back to my original point. If you live somewhere or work in a job that makes it hard to manage your time the way you want, you should get a job somewhere where you can have more time in the afternoon, if that is so important to you. I have changed jobs for lifestyle as have many others.

If QLD adopted DLS then the whole Easter Seaboard would be on the same time all year around.

If you read my earlier post you would see that adversely affects many rural industries effectively taking an hour out of their working day... so you can have an extra hour of leasure. That's hardly democratic or fair is it! Why should anyone have to suffer inconveinance to appease someone can't organise their lifestyle well!

The only argument against DLS is surfers cannot get their morning surf in before work I suppose they could always go for an evening surf.

Now you are starting to get irrisponsible and a bit disparaging to people who can manage their lives well... and I might add Doctor J's last post was a bit too.

Since you mention surfing it is more dangerous surfing in the late afternoon because of more likelihood of a shark attack... thats why surfers generally surf in the morning. Anyway, you have the time management problem... you get bloody motivated and get out of bed an hour earlier.

Look... I have to say some of the reasons you people advocating DST put up to justify you inability to manage your time well or because you have made job decisions that are incompatable with your recreation requirements range from dumb, illinformed to just plain dangerous.

It seems you people not only want us who manage quite well to suffer severe disruptions to our livelihood and daily routines and add in additional unecessary risks to safety just to appease you and your whims.

Sure, some people may be disadvantaged but this is a democracy and the majority want it.

Democrecy is more than an election and majority of numbers. As I said before

Well, the majority of people thought the world was flat once and they were wrong too.

and there are many other examples.

Democracy is about the rule of law and common law principles of right and respect for others and common decency.

If you cannot organise your life well... that is your disadvantage... live with it or change your circumstances like so many other people have... that is democracy and justice.

It is quite obvious that most if not all those who advocate DST don't give a damn about the adverse effects or the rights of the rest.

EDIT: Spot on MS+Tradesim. A nice irony that it is a horse.

 

[gfresh]

I'm all for it .. "get up earlier".. no.. I'm a night person, I get up at 7am and would enjoy an extra hour of light to do activities in a 9-5 job. Call me lazy if you like, but I'm up until 1am many nights. I'm not loathe to change the habbits of my last 20 years, as would anybody that is used to not having daylight savings time. So where is the difference? We are just arguing two different sides of who should be the one to change based on our own habbits! Majority lives in cities, majority has the say. You'll probably also find the majority these days in S.EQ has also come from Sydney and Melbourne, who also are used to it.

While we're there about time QLD got rid of the archiac half trading hours of Australia and the rest of the world in fact. Supermarkets closed at 5pm on a weekend, what a joke.

More opening hours = more jobs, more growth, more money for the economy.

It is quite obvious that most if not all those who advocate DST don't give a damn about the adverse effects or the rights of the rest.

No, and you don't give a damn about the people that may like daylight savings time, and disregarding the advantages it may offer. Same perspective, you're just on the other side of the fence!

 

[doctorj]

Democrecy is more than an election and majority of numbers. As I said before and there are many other examples.

I like the horse cartoon too. And since I live in WA, what happens in Qld is moot. That said, I wonder why you consider it a "time management" issue for city folk and an unavoidable thing for farmers.

Often people don't like change, particularly in Australia. Sometimes I wonder if it's the change people don't like or the idea of change itself.

 

[Whiskers]

I'm all for it .. "get up earlier".. no.. I'm a night person, I get up at 7am and would enjoy an extra hour of light to do activities in a 9-5 job. Call me lazy if you like, but I'm up until 1am many nights. I'm not loathe to change the habbits of my last 20 years,

I presume you got your grammar wrong and meant 'I'm loathe to change...'.

You keep demonstrating that you are lazy (your words), and unwilling to change your lifestyle, and would rather have the rest of the world change to suit you. That is selfish and inconsiderate as well as unwilling to make better time management decisions.

While we're there about time QLD got rid of the archiac half trading hours of Australia and the rest of the world in fact. Supermarkets closed at 5pm on a weekend, what a joke.

More opening hours = more jobs, more growth, more money for the economy.

So... you want more time off for leasure, but you want others in Qld to give up there night and weekend leasure time to work extra hours to suit you. Talk about the height of selfishness and hypocricy.

Why don't you come up here and work those extra hours at night or weekend then! Talk about bloody poor time management. If you cant get to the supermarket between 8.00am and 9.00pm weekdays and 5.00pm saturdays you really do deserve a medal for imcompetent time management.

Your economics is as lousy as your DST arguement. I think there is an odd 24 hr supermarket where it is warranted. In some cases shopping hours have been shortened because it was unprofitable, except for the major supermarkets who prictice preditory pricing. The can afford to run at a loss for awhile to force small business out of business, then when they have no competition they put the prices up higher.

Majority lives in cities, majority has the say.

I have already pointed out the falasy of that 'dumb' arguement.

You would do well to remember where you water, food, building materials etc and much of the nations wealth comes from, not to mention where your rubbish and sewerage goes to, before you start ranting on that line too much.

I'll spell it out for you. Cities are hopelessly unsustainable places to live independantly. You don't even have the basics for living without the goodwill and cooperation of rural folks. Another point often missed by folks like you, using your divide of city v country, is that much more national wealth is generated from rural areas than city areas. Even the banks and big financial institutions depend on something from rural areas for their turnover.

No, and you don't give a damn about the people that may like daylight savings time, and disregarding the advantages it may offer. Same perspective, you're just on the other side of the fence!

No, it is not the same perspective from a different side of the fence at all. We work quite well with the natural order of time and don't want any thing different. You are the one wanting to change the time, but not your lifestyle decisions. You won't succeed screwing the facts around trying to play guilt tricks on us.

The fundamental fact is that TRUE time is fixed... that's how nature is.

It is not time that is being changed, it is just the perception of time that you want changed because you can't or won't organise yourself to get to bed early enough and or too lazy to get up a bit earlier in the morning.

All it boils down to is that you want to reshedule the world around you because, as you admit, you are lazy and won't make the necessary reasonable decisions about changing your own lifestyle, but are happy to make others change their lifestyle and suffer inconvience to suit your selfishness and incompetance.

 

[Smurf1976]

Why doesn't the Qld government put the issue to a referendum if they can't work it out? Since the proposal only relates to SE Qld, only those in that part of the state would vote and those elsewhere would have nothing to worry about.

 

[Smurf1976]

If you cant get to the supermarket between 8.00am and 9.00pm weekdays and 5.00pm saturdays you really do deserve a medal for imcompetent time management.

It's not unusual that I'm at work for ALL of that time period. I find it very hard to believe that there wouldn't be some in Qld in that same situation.

As for the shopping hours, Tasmania went through this argument a few years ago. All the "doom and gloom" arguments from the small shopkeepers turned out to be more about keeping the whole state in the 1990's "doom and gloom" recession than anything else. Shopping hours were deregulated and an economic boom followed (though I'm not arguing as a direct result). And there's still plenty of small shops - only now they can't completely rip off the consumers as they used to.

Farmers etc down here aren't that keen on it. But as they long ago acknowledged, it's what the majority wants and they can't expect to have everything they way they want it. Most of they just seem to have changed their working hours to suit - still plenty of visible farm activity until sunset. Only thing that still seems to upset them is the shorter period of DST in Victoria creating different time zones but that's about to be fixed next season.

 

[nioka]

It's not unusual that I'm at work for ALL of that time period. I find it very hard to believe that there wouldn't be some in Qld in that same situation.

Regardless of daylight saving you should get another job. Vote for Rudd and you may not have to work those hours. You need time for living too. There isn't all that much of it, don't waste a minute.

 

[Whiskers]

I like the horse cartoon too. And since I live in WA, what happens in Qld is moot. That said, I wonder why you consider it a "time management" issue for city folk and an unavoidable thing for farmers.

Often people don't like change, particularly in Australia. Sometimes I wonder if it's the change people don't like or the idea of change itself.

Yeah doc, I think a dislike for change has a lot to do with it in many cases. And while we understand the prima facie arguement put foreward for DST, I think many rural folk would support chance if there was a significant national benifit from the change eg that a lot of extra tourist dollars would flow into extra taxes for the benifit of all.

In reality I think why the Gold Coast is so supportive of the idea is because it gives the, pubs, clubs and casinos disproportionately more business, with the resultant drunkeness and violence and social issues with problem gambling. Many Qld'ers now consider the Gold Coast CBD, and to some extent Cairns CBD as too touristy with a cold unfriendly enviornment and crime like the infamous Kings Cross or LA atmosphere and won't go there, much preferring other places. If my memory is correct the liquor trading hours were shortened on the gold coast because of the drunkeness and violence.

There has been certain unscroupulous tourist operators who litterally control the itenerary of tourists so tightly that they don't allow them to go to shops of their choice, they guide them to certain businesses that are part of the network. The integrity of those businesses has been questioned in regard to under the counter sales. The other tourist operators that are not part of the particular international 'guided' tours network appreciate DST to try to get more business from locals.

So on balance the financial gain is beat up by tourist operators and the social degredation is glossed over.

Doc, the reason it is a time management issue is by definition it is the management of the daily schedule that is being manipulated, in the guise of DST. And a management issue because it is the management of the daily schedule (time) they are changing for everyone. That is why it is unavoidable for farmers etc.

The definition of management is the process of coordinating activities so they are completed efficiently and effectively.

To my understanding of manegerial training, the coordination of daily schedules, as DST, needs to be completed efficiently and effectively. To do that it should not interfere with the efficiency and effectiveness of those who do not want DST. So the obvious good management solution is for the people who claim to be leisure time short in the afternoons and have a need to reschedule their time, should change just their schedule as opposed to everyone else's schedule in the form of DST.

 

[Whiskers]

It's not unusual that I'm at work for ALL of that time period.

Geez smurf, thats 13 hrs a day. Daylight saving ain't going to help you, cos you ain't got any leisure time, unless you don't sleep.

I'm afraid I concur with nioka, because I have been there like many farmers and small business people, but you need to change jobs and enjoy life a bit. :

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention that once you start creating different time zones in a state, where exactly do you draw the line and where does it stop.

Many years ago, I think it was around the time we had DST, the north was threatening to split off and form a new state because they were getting a raw deal with all the development etc happening in the SE. So you can understand why the Gov is treading carefully. Some dislusional Gold Coast politicians still think they are the the lifeblood of Qld and probably a state in their own right.

 

[sails]

...EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention that once you start creating different time zones in a state, where exactly do you draw the line and where does it stop....

Hmmm Whiskers, currently the line not only divides the densly populated Twin Towns, but also divides Coolangatta airport, including the runway as well!

Ever spared a thought for the folks who live on one side of the line and work on the other? Many people have been putting up with the associated difficulties and inconvenience for years, especially when the line runs though dense population. Nothing about laziness, just practicality.

Anyway, for those that would like still to add their support for the trial - the e-petition ends tomorrow - here is the link again. http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/EPetitions_qld/CurrentEPetition.aspx?PetNum=931

Time is running out so make sure to email any friends with the petition link to give everyone in favour an opportunity to have their say.

 

[Whiskers]

Hmmm Whiskers, currently the line not only divides the densly populated Twin Towns, but also divides Coolangatta airport, including the runway as well!

Ever spared a thought for the folks who live on one side of the line and work on the other? Many people have been putting up with the associated difficulties and inconvenience for years, especially when the line runs though dense population. Nothing about laziness, just practicality.

Sorry Sails, but I don't have to feel guilty about that. Afterall it is the advocates of DST in the southern states that upset the status quo and natural order of things.

Fair dinkim mate. Some of these lines are akin to the preverbial 'blonde' jokes.

It's like you crashing into my parked car and blaming me for your accident.

I refer you to the definition of good management from above.

The definition of management is the process of coordinating activities so they are completed efficiently and effectively.

To my understanding of manegerial training, the coordination of daily schedules, as DST, needs to be completed efficiently and effectively. To do that it should not interfere with the efficiency and effectiveness of those who do not want DST. So the obvious good management solution is for the people who claim to be leisure time short in the afternoons and have a need to reschedule their time, should change just their schedule as opposed to everyone else's schedule in the form of DST.

 

[doctorj]

Afterall it is the advocates of DST in the southern states that upset the status quo and natural order of things.

Remember time is arbitary and invented by man - its not a natural occurance.

 

[Whiskers]

Remember time is arbitary and invented by man - its not a natural occurance.

Geez Doc, I'll have to give you 100% for persistance... for something.... maybe nit picking.

Now lets see... I'm not expert in this field, but how does this sound?

I would say that 'time' is a dimension of our universe, that has always existed, so in that sense it is a natural occurance. What man did was put a name of measure on it... so we could relate things in time.

In that sense it as arbitary, but in the sense that man designed that measure of time so that it could be and is universally accepted as a standard... it is not arbitary, but reasoned. :

 

[doctorj]

We'll never agree, I'm for it and you're not. It's one of those things where the results are subjective and heavily depend on your frame of reference.

8pm and still light here. With any luck I'll make it home before dark! Hurrah for daylight saving

 

[shaunnell]

We have trialed it in Qld... and the notion of two time zones in Qld has been mooted before too.

That gets back to my original point. If you live somewhere or work in a job that makes it hard to manage your time the way you want, you should get a job somewhere where you can have more time in the afternoon, if that is so important to you. I have changed jobs for lifestyle as have many others.

But most in the city support so do you suggest everyone just quits and finds another job...

Unfortunately there are people that will not be swayed, who feel they have the only answer and the God given right; who are arrogant and ignorant of the plight of others so I will not try and convince them anymore. If the rural folk in NSW, VIC, ACT and Tasmania can cope I am sure the QLD ones can too.

I am sure the DLS petition will fail but that will not stop the fight.

As mentioned before, I have never heard a petition in a DLS practicing state requiring DLS be abolished...

 

[Whiskers]

But most in the city support so do you suggest everyone just quits and finds another job...

No, because they all manage without DST for nine months of the year. It's just when the the DST advocates push it they pick up a lot of freeloaders who will take it just because they can, but most of them won't fight tooth and nail for it because they have an understanding and empathy for the people that it disadvantages.

Unfortunately there are people that will not be swayed, who feel they have the only answer and the God given right; who are arrogant and ignorant of the plight of others

Quite true.

so I will not try and convince them anymore.

Now you got twisted with the guilt tricks again just in the last little bit.

If the rural folk in NSW, VIC, ACT and Tasmania can cope I am sure the QLD ones can too.

The cope because they had to. That doesn't mean they agree with it or wouldn't change it if they could.

I am sure the DLS petition will fail...

Yes.

...but that will not stop the fight.

Pity. You could use that time for whatever you want the extra time in the afternoon for, and therefore you will have less need for DST.

As mentioned before, I have never heard a petition in a DLS practicing state requiring DLS be abolished

Actually I have heard calls from people in the southern states wanting to abolish it. Maybe you only keep company with like minded people. Or maybe you come on too heavy with the 'dumb blond' spin and turn people off from talking to you.

 

[2020hindsight]

Hopefully it never comes in.
I play golf in the mornings and am back at home, showered and helping to gets kids ready for school by 7:00am.

I can leave work at 5:00 (yeah right!!) and have 1.5 hours of sunlight before dark sets in properly. Heaps of time for gardening and kicking the footy.

I went to Scotland once - played a round of 18 holes after dinner !
but don't recall doing any gardening before breakfast the next day though

between longest and shortest day there are 5 hours difference in hours of sunlight (Sydney latitude).
i.e. at Xmas, the sun rises 1.25 hours earlier than "mean" and sets 1.25 hours later than "mean" etc -
i.e. summer : sun rises roughly 6-1h15m = 4.45am, sets 6+1h15m = 7.15pm
with DLS this becomes rises 5.45am sets 8.15pm. (yes!!)

(spring forward, fall back etc)

I personally reckon its great to make use of those hours as a package at the end of the day - rather than split between two smaller parcels.

I personally really look forward to daylight saving - take the pooch to the beach after work etc.

But hey - it's a democracy, and you blokes do what you (collectively) like.

Duck, - in your case ! - you might even consider the opposite - daylight saving in the mornings! - i.e. "spring (clocks go) back" , "fall (clocks go) forward" -

that way, in summer you could play a full 18 holes of golf before breakfast mate