Humans are animals

[IFocus]

Humans are animals of course we are!

Humans survived by working together in larger groups I wonder if that’s where our instinctive need to do things for others comes from.

Religion isn’t that the invention of man?

Isn’t the type of religion practiced by cultures a measurement of their development?

What’s it all mean?

Thanks for the thread Kennas

Focus

 

[wayneL]

I'm trying without success to find a word to substitute for spiritual which to me has religious/faith connotations.

Yeah agree there Julia. I use the word without those connotations, as many do, but most probably assume the religious meaning anyway.

 

[So_Cynical]

Of course we are all animals, and in the end compost.

I came to this "logical" conclusion when i was about 14 years old.

One of my fav sayings/quotes...below.

A god that answers prayers is a delusion.
A god that doesn't answer prayers isn't a god.

 

[wayneL]

Of course we are all animals, and in the end compost.

I came to this "logical" conclusion when i was about 14 years old.

One of my fav sayings/quotes...below.

A god that answers prayers is a delusion.
A god that doesn't answer prayers isn't a god.

That's because you are stuck with the "Dude in the sky" meme.

There are infinite possibilities otherwise.

 

[Wysiwyg]

There are infinite possibilities otherwise.

So profound that....there are some truths in the world (like gravity) and there are many questions still unanswered.Cause and effect is one path with answers.We can give names to everything....if only to agree that it is so.

 

[springhill]

Ill put a very simplified view of the human species forward. Yes, we are animals, but we are the lowest form of animal. Reason? We have the intellect and self awareness to behave in a better manner than animals, but still choose not to.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Ill put a very simplified view of the human species forward. Yes, we are animals, but we are the lowest form of animal. Reason? We have the intellect and self awareness to behave in a better manner than animals, but still choose not to.

Springhill ...just a query about the `better manner than animals` & `self awareness~ (which most people lack) bit if you would.

My perception of animal behavior is simply survival and existance.Eating procreating and sleeping.In balance and perpetuating species.

How can human behave better than animals?

 

[Julia]

Springhill ...just a query about the `better manner than animals` & `self awareness~ (which most people lack) bit if you would.

My perception of animal behavior is simply survival and existance.Eating procreating and sleeping.In balance and perpetuating species.

How can human behave better than animals?

I'm not attempting to answer for Springhill but my view would be that humans with their intellect and awareness - and education - have the capacity to make constructive choices about their behaviour (I'm trying to avoid the words "moral" and "ethical" here because they imply judgements, i.e. who is to say what is morally or ethically appropriate?) but so often we fail to live up to our capacity in this respect. So in many ways, an animal, e.g. dog, etc, is more pure with its lack of malevolence, cunning, competitiveness, bellicosity, or other ugly human traits.

 

[springhill]

I'm not attempting to answer for Springhill but my view would be that humans with their intellect and awareness - and education - have the capacity to make constructive choices about their behaviour (I'm trying to avoid the words "moral" and "ethical" here because they imply judgements, i.e. who is to say what is morally or ethically appropriate?) but so often we fail to live up to our capacity in this respect. So in many ways, an animal, e.g. dog, etc, is more pure with its lack of malevolence, cunning, competitiveness, bellicosity, or other ugly human traits.

Couldnt have put it better myself.
Humans make concious choices to kill, rape, molest, beat, steal......
Why?
Because their daddy didnt love their mummy enough?
Or they didnt read them bedtime stories at night?
Or they were drunk or on drugs?

For animals its all about survival, they know no other way
Humans that do these things are pieces of ****, last time i checked **** came out of arseholes...

 

[Wysiwyg]

I'm not attempting to answer for Springhill but my view would be that humans with their intellect and awareness - and education - have the capacity to make constructive choices about their behaviour (I'm trying to avoid the words "moral" and "ethical" here because they imply judgements, i.e. who is to say what is morally or ethically appropriate?) but so often we fail to live up to our capacity in this respect. So in many ways, an animal, e.g. dog, etc, is more pure with its lack of malevolence, cunning, competitiveness, bellicosity, or other ugly human traits.

Julia hi...bellicose is a word I had never ever seen before and is appropriately descriptive of us .The piece I highlighted is the part I was alluding to earlier.
The varying degrees of intellect/awareness via education.Does the more intelligent human make a better (righteous) decision than the human with less intellect.Are the intellectuals/smarter people making the right choices?

Perpetrators of wrongs (infringing on others) come from all degrees of intelligence/awareness so I don`t think that , although having the capacity , is the reason.What do you think?

Animals don`t use words.

 

[nioka]

Ill put a very simplified view of the human species forward. Yes, we are animals, but we are the lowest form of animal. Reason? We have the intellect and self awareness to behave in a better manner than animals, but still choose not to.

Are you speaking for yourself about yourself or for others about them. I know a lot of very good people and I've seen the damage rogue dogs have done to a mob of sheep. I have had dogs working for me with more intelligence and self awareness than some people I know and I have had the privilege to have had as friends men I can not fault.
It is time you looked for the good in some of those around you or you had better keep better company.

 

[Sean K]

Why do you assume that to 'BE' is to do nothing? Of course we procreate, protect our young and ensure our survival. That is the 'is'

So what is your IS? To just BE is a little esoteric for my liking at the moment.

Can you describe your BE for me?

And to the point, does this make you an animal or something more 'special'?

 

[Sean K]

Do we have to necessarily be either spiritual or animal? I don't see why.

.....

Altruism: doesn't it exist when, e.g. someone spontaneously rushes into a burning house to save an occupant? Isn't that person instinctively reacting to the need to save a life? Or does he in fact, even momentarily, think before rushing in "Ah, if I pull this person out of a burning house I will receive much recognition and praise and will be called a hero". I doubt it.

So, Julia are you assuming animals can be 'spiritual' too? Or, that we are animals, but a particularly developed animal that has the ability to think there must be a reason? It's just a brain development issue....

On the second point above, this is one of the arguments that has led me to think that we may be able to be altruistic.

Or, could this innate, instinctive response be programmed in as a human survival mechanism. Like when we touch something hot, we don't consciously think 'shet! I better move my hand away from that', and then tell our arms to move our hands to move our fingers away. Perhaps running into the burning house is an extention of that? Fight or flight?

 

[Ageo]

Also if we are animals then why are we the only kind of animals that can advance through time?

I mean there are so many different animal species on this earth yet only us human animals have the ability to progress??

 

[Sean K]

With all due respect to your beliefs Kennas (and I'm glad there are people who ponder such things at great length, so no disrespect intended at all) I cannot possibly agree with that last sentence. There are thousands of examples of self-sacrifice and altruism. Although wartime heroics (in terms of self sacrifice) would be the most obvious, I have met many people who have given up financial security, their social lives, friendship circles etc to care for sick relatives. Thousands of Australians olunteer every day for no benefit to themselves (and yes, obviously many more do so to feel purposeful).

Mofra, as I said responded to Julia, I think there may be acts of genuine altruism, perhaps, but the one you have listed is probably not, IMO. They are carefully considered actions for the benefit of someone else, that assists in the survival of the species, and ultimately yourself. Most people are unwilling to accept this and just go on day to day thinking they are being 'good' without seeing the truth behind their actions. Or, I could be wrong? This is one of things I'm trying to sort out. Cheers.

 

[springhill]

Are you speaking for yourself about yourself or for others about them. I know a lot of very good people and I've seen the damage rogue dogs have done to a mob of sheep. I have had dogs working for me with more intelligence and self awareness than some people I know and I have had the privilege to have had as friends men I can not fault.
It is time you looked for the good in some of those around you or you had better keep better company.

U should think more carefully before u go pointing the finger nioka, dont judge me or cast assumptions about the people i associate with, none by the way who are crims or anything of the sort. As i have not pointed the finger at any one person. You have personalised your post
Unless the people u speak of have never uttered a bad word about anyone or thought a bad thought, let alone the things we conciously do everyday that we pass off as 'human nature'. They sound like angels re-incarnated
If i chose to i could find your post extremely offensive, lucky my skin is thicker than that.
your point of the rogue dog is invalid as it knows no better
compare that to a human that indiscriminatly kills 2,4,10 people
which is the worse act?
and why?

 

[Sean K]

your point of the rogue dog is invalid as it knows no better
compare that to a human that indiscriminatly kills 2,4,10 people
which is the worse act?
and why?

Springhill, I'm not too sure about the 'worse act' argument you're presenting here to prove humans are lower, or more unethical, or less moral, or whatever your saying, than animals. The 'indiscriminate' acts you describe probably have a purpose. We do have 'choices' but they are choices we make in response to our environment and circumstances, which force us to act the way we do. There is a lot of violence in the world, but in the scheme of things we probably get on pretty well considering how closely we all live together and the capacity we have to inflict pain and grief if we choose to. Lions don't have the capability make and fire a rifle, for example, but if they could they'd probably be using it to effect, instead of doing all that prowling around and growling and the like. Although, they'd probably just be killing what they needed to eat perhaps.....unlike our behaviour. hmmmm

Perhaps a point that could add to your argument though, is that I have the feeling animals don't do things for 'pleasure'. They are very purpose driven. Humans however, have the capacity to do things for an end in themselves. If this were to include doing extremely nasty things, for 'pleasure', then I would be concerned. However, I have a feeling the only ones doing this are the psychos.

And gents, lets stop any personal abuse creeping in, please?

 

[Wysiwyg]

Also if we are animals then why are we the only kind of animals that can advance through time?

I mean there are so many different animal species on this earth yet only us human animals have the ability to progress??

ageo...in line with subject i assume you mean evolutionary progress and which Wik. says.....

Evolutionary progress, the idea that there is a largest-scale trend in evolution of organisms and that the trend is toward improvement

Totally disagree with Wik......improvement can only mean domination as a living organism over other living organisms.To be improved or more efficient the entity has to eliminate all threat and be at the top of the food chain. White pointer sharks (since the ocean has not been conquered by man) are an example.

There are other animals at the top of the food chain.We humans aren`t progressive but without a guide ,human mind does what human mind does.

 

[weird]

Kennas,

Don't stare at the sun. Trust me on this one.

The Book of Ecclesiastes, pretty much summed up most people's frustrations, when pondering their navel (or pehaps coming off party drugs). He could have added I guess, why do I need to do a crap every morning, it's all meaningless.

Not many choices on this earth I guess we have at being a moving and thinking thang ... guess we could have been all advanced plants ... anyhow we are animals.

 

[springhill]

Springhill, I'm not too sure about the 'worse act' argument you're presenting here to prove humans are lower, or more unethical, or less moral, or whatever your saying, than animals.

Apologies for the poor use of the word 'worse'
I guess my question would have ben better phrased
'Which animal could be considered more culpable, or responsible for its actions?'