The future of energy generation and storage

[Smurf1976]

No but my understanding is making nuclear arms grade for weapons a spin off is fuel grade that can be used in reactors.

The first two nuclear power stations in the UK were exactly that. Military facilities with a useful and politically convenient (in an international context) by-product of generating electricity.

 

[Smurf1976]

Extremely high demand in SA today with the temperature officially reaching 43.3 degrees in the Adelaide CBD with some suburbs recording up to 44.7 degrees.

Outside the metropolitan area parts of the state on the grid recorded up to 46.0 degrees, with some off-grid small towns recording up to 48.7 degrees.

Those are all proper BOM measurements.

Unsurprisingly that resulted in high electricity demand.

Including the estimated output of behind the meter generation, that is primarily rooftop solar, demand reached 3730MW at 17:30 whilst looking only at large scale centralised generation (including wind, solar, batteries, gas, etc) demand peaked at 3358MW at 19:45

The second figure is just short of the all time record high whilst the first, including rooftop solar in the data, is an all time high.

For the chart below:
Yellow = Solar
Green = Wind
Blue = Battery
Orange = Gas
Red = Diesel
Purple = from Victoria

 

[qldfrog]

If something is going to operate from (for example) 2035 to 2085 then it's entirely reasonable to spread the cost over that period. That's exactly what would be done with any form of generation, the cost is spread over its total life (or more precisely, it's spread over its total generated output).

Now I do agree there are problems and omissions, but if something lasts 5, 10, 50 or 100 years then of itself it's a normal thing to spread the cost over that time.

In saying that I'm inherently wary of arguments for using short lifespans simply because they bias toward gas and diesel. You'll never get a long lived asset such as hydro to stack up if someone decides it's to be written off financially after 20 years, but it's very different if it's run for a century or more.

Spreading the cost is not something you do when you favor solar farms or batteries to be fully write off after 15y max, so the biased opinion like the pages above , but it is ok: we will ship crushed panels to India,as we do now, except we will probably the one filling our desert with craps in 15y seeing our current economic trajectory.

 

[qldfrog]

Extremely high demand in SA today with the temperature officially reaching 43.3 degrees in the Adelaide CBD with some suburbs recording up to 44.7 degrees.

Outside the metropolitan area parts of the state on the grid recorded up to 46.0 degrees, with some off-grid small towns recording up to 48.7 degrees.

Those are all proper BOM measurements.

Unsurprisingly that resulted in high electricity demand.

Including the estimated output of behind the meter generation, that is primarily rooftop solar, demand reached 3730MW at 17:30 whilst looking only at large scale centralised generation (including wind, solar, batteries, gas, etc) demand peaked at 3358MW at 19:45

The second figure is just short of the all time record high whilst the first, including rooftop solar in the data, is an all time high.

For the chart below:
Yellow = Solar
Green = Wind
Blue = Battery
Orange = Gas
Red = Diesel
Purple = from Victoria

View attachment 193133

Thanks for batteries...

 

[SirRumpole]

Spreading the cost is not something you do when you favor solar farms or batteries to be fully write off after 15y max, so the biased opinion like the pages above , but it is ok: we will ship crushed panels to India,as we do now, except we will probably the one filling our desert with craps in 15y seeing our current economic trajectory.

Surely if all the costs are included, including recycling or disposal then you can come up with an effective comparison?

 

[qldfrog]

Surely if all the costs are included, including recycling or disposal then you can come up with an effective comparison?

yes, it is possible but none of the lobbies involved inc nuclear want the truth told, nor actually any real CO2 per kWH for the various options INCLUDING setup (transmission grid/losses and land cost), shipping, maintenance and end of life recycling [and battery or storage for solar/wind] to ensure 24/7 supply.
All the above imho making nuclear probably unlikely winners here in Australia
there are papers, none including the transport from China or installation and maintenance emission

Estimating The Carbon Footprint Of Utility-Scale Battery Storage

As utilities combine renewable energy with large battery storage systems, there has been increasing interest in the carbon footprint of such systems. In this article, I attempt to make that calculation.

www.forbes.com

so between
for comparison nuclear emissions are around 15 to 50 grams of carbon dioxide (CO2) per kilowatt hour (kWh) vs between 70 g CO2-eq/kWh and 300 g CO2-eq/kWh for solar farm + battery
I am 100% certain, by using science very basic figures and facts that the " CO2 is responsible for global warming" is a giant scam so could not care less but at the very least, if we pretend to destroy this country on this co2 tales, the very least is to do it right and not end up creating more of it on a lifetime for a few minutes of sunny midday peak glory pretense
After , I do not believe Australia is economically and technologically able to use nuclear on scale...

 

[SirRumpole]

After , I do not believe Australia is economically and technologically able to use nuclear on scale...

I agree. What's your solution?

 

[qldfrog]

I agree. What's your solution?

preserve gas, burn gas;
open a big coal plant using good coal in qld, maybe one near Newcastle with a 50y lifetime
The ongoing base loads if good coal is available near existing grid and centers.
solar/wind a little bit as long as not on arable land and not subsidized, and with mandate to enforce a minimum 24/7 power for at least 2 days as well as a fund to pay for recycling/land restoration as is done in mining.
If the solar farms can be offer a base output cheaper than gas, no problem.
Start putting money in education for nuclear scientists and maybe develop a research thorium/fusion reactor to be ready when the time comes
I had JET lab stage offers while student in France, and my first job in ATC IT in Melbourne was with a nuclear physicist (born and bred Aussie), we can do it
On a 20y window, and if severing NIMB and assisted mentality, Australia could do it..but not with a focus on DEI, Phd in gender studies and red/green tapes.
We need a power crisis to wake everyone up,that will happen, no doubt; and probably poverty and hunger in the streets to maybe put this country back into a fighting position
But if the focus is CGT on RE, another super grab, NDIS absence of action or focus on if Elon is a nazi, well our Milei is at least 30 y away

 

[SirRumpole]

open a big coal plant using good coal in qld, maybe one near Newcastle with a 50y lifetime

Interesting, it will certainly give us more time but is unsustainable eventually.

If we do that, then the Aus government should buy coal mines and ensure that the supplies go first to our national needs and not China's.

Start putting money in education for nuclear scientists and maybe develop a research thorium/fusion reactor to be ready when the time comes

Agree there as well. Nuclear technology like all others will advance and we need a "critical mass" of scientists here who can deal with it.