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The ScoMo Government

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sptrawler said:
That is one weird person, obviously impressed with his exploits, the world is becoming a weird place.
Click to expand...

I think this behaviour spells out the lack of respect and boundaries that some people have. In that context the abuse of other staffers seems par for the course.

The bigger question is how does this culture continue to flourish ? If it is recognised as seriously wrong what are the consequences ?

Trust 4 Corners to get its teeth into the issue.
 
basilio said:
I think this behaviour spells out the lack of respect and boundaries that some people have. In that context the abuse of other staffers seems par for the course.

The bigger question is how does this culture continue to flourish ? If it is recognised as seriously wrong what are the consequences ?

Trust 4 Corners to get its teeth into the issue.
Click to expand...
I think it is a sign of the times, morals, principals and respectable behaviour is all going down the toilet, with the advent of social media, uncensored internet pr0n and a drop in personal and social responsibility.
How many times these days do we read stories of revenge pr0n, bullying on social media causing mental health issues, this culture flourishes because it has become a form of grotesque entertainment for many.
What are the consequences for appalling behaviour? well as happened to the staff in question they were sacked for inappropriate behaviour, if they did something illegal the police will become involved.
But what was considered unhealthy behaviour 50 years ago, now is considered acceptable, who knows what it will be like in 50 years time?
Just travel on a train or bus and watch the way people treat public transport, that taxpayers are providing.
 
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sptrawler said:
I think it is a sign of the times, morals, principals and respectable behaviour is all going down the toilet, with the advent of social media, uncensored internet pr0n and a drop in personal and social responsibility.
How many times these days do we read stories of revenge pr0n, bullying on social media causing mental health issues, this culture flourishes because it has become a form of grotesque entertainment for many.
What are the consequences for appalling behaviour? well as happened to the staff in question they were sacked for inappropriate behaviour, if they did something illegal the police will become involved.
But what was considered unhealthy behaviour 50 years ago, now is considered acceptable, who knows what it will be like in 50 years time?
Just travel on a train or bus and watch the way people treat public transport, that taxpayers are providing.
Click to expand...

I can see and agree with much of what you say SP. Not quite sure however that the past was such a gilded age. It is easy to remember what we want to see as good and forgot/overlook some really appalling behaviour.
For example women have always been harassed and abused at work, in the streets in their homes.
Racism ? Overt, casual endemic ? Let's not forget how football crowds and clubs routinely behaved as a matter of course until barely 10 years ago.

I think what has happened however has been the rise of the internet and social media that has enabled and I suggest emboldened some really nasty xhit. In my view we have seen a rapid corruption of peoples ideas to accepting as "practically normal" abuse and behaviour that stinks.

Smurf made a point of highlighting the power of the psychopath. Whether in business, politics , the Arts or just public life , aggressive, consciousless behaviour is becoming more and more successful and harder and harder to stop. The capacity to simply tell bigger and bigger lies , get them believed and get away with it is, in my mind, truly frightening. These days it takes many forms. Simply denying that one has done something wrong regardless of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Creating ones own rules of behaviour and disregarding protocols that protect the interests of other people or the broader community values.

Politicians are very largely arch aggressors. No one reaches the top being a wimp. There are plenty of sociopaths who want to be top dog.

On the way to being top dog there is plenty of seemingly inevitable road kill. Other candidates in your party. Competing politicians. There are courses of actions deemed "necessary" which in a just world wouldn't happen but in the world of "real politik" have to be done.

The obvious ones are covering up the road kill. Killing the inquiries that will politically embarrass or possibly destroy a government. Ensuring by whatever means necessary that victims or witnesses understand what is important. (And it certainly isn't them) Digging up/creating dirt on opponents and trying to destroy their credibility.

There are no virgins or innocents amongst aware men and women. The fact is women have known and known from personal, shared experience how absolutely xucked our legal/political/social systems are. Everybody knows that whatever xshit a powerful guy does to a woman making him accountable in our system is pushing merde way up the valley and over the mountains.

In the past few months there has been a confluence of political behaviours that finally enraged 100,000 women to march on Canberra and say "This is xucking unacceptable". Covering up rapes and abuse, behaving like a big swinging xick amongst staff and colleagues and denial, denial and more denial. Women wern't just marching becasue of what happened in canberra. Every single one would have a personal similar experience either directly or through friends, family or colleagues.

Basta !! I'm off.



PS. And this is not simply a problem for the Liberals. There is plenty of xhit behaviour across all political parties.
 
basilio said:
I can see and agree with much of what you say SP. Not quite sure however that the past was such a gilded age. It is easy to remember what we want to see as good and forgot/overlook some really appalling behaviour.
For example women have always been harassed and abused at work, in the streets in their homes.
Click to expand...
Yes they have, but they also used to have doors held open for them, where generally treated with respect, men stood up to allow them a seat and ensured they never used foul language in front of them.
So yes some were treated very badly, from memory as a young bloke most were treated with respect, that isn't the norm these days.



basilio said:
Racism ? Overt, casual endemic ? Let's not forget how football crowds and clubs routinely behaved as a matter of course until barely 10 years ago.
Click to expand...

Absolutely
basilio said:
I think what has happened however has been the rise of the internet and social media that has enabled and I suggest emboldened some really nasty xhit. In my view we have seen a rapid corruption of peoples ideas to accepting as "practically normal" abuse and behaviour that stinks.
Click to expand...

Absolutely
basilio said:
Smurf made a point of highlighting the power of the psychopath. Whether in business, politics , the Arts or just public life , aggressive, consciousless behaviour is becoming more and more successful and harder and harder to stop. The capacity to simply tell bigger and bigger lies , get them believed and get away with it is, in my mind, truly frightening. These days it takes many forms. Simply denying that one has done something wrong regardless of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Creating ones own rules of behaviour and disregarding protocols that protect the interests of other people or the broader community values.

Politicians are very largely arch aggressors. No one reaches the top being a wimp. There are plenty of sociopaths who want to be top dog.

On the way to being top dog there is plenty of seemingly inevitable road kill. Other candidates in your party. Competing politicians. There are courses of actions deemed "necessary" which in a just world wouldn't happen but in the world of "real politik" have to be done.

The obvious ones are covering up the road kill. Killing the inquiries that will politically embarrass or possibly destroy a government. Ensuring by whatever means necessary that victims or witnesses understand what is important. (And it certainly isn't them) Digging up/creating dirt on opponents and trying to destroy their credibility.

There are no virgins or innocents amongst aware men and women. The fact is women have known and known from personal, shared experience how absolutely xucked our legal/political/social systems are. Everybody knows that whatever xshit a powerful guy does to a woman making him accountable in our system is pushing merde way up the valley and over the mountains.

In the past few months there has been a confluence of political behaviours that finally enraged 100,000 women to march on Canberra and say "This is xucking unacceptable". Covering up rapes and abuse, behaving like a big swinging xick amongst staff and colleagues and denial, denial and more denial. Women wern't just marching becasue of what happened in canberra. Every single one would have a personal similar experience either directly or through friends, family or colleagues.

Basta !! I'm off.



PS. And this is not simply a problem for the Liberals. There is plenty of xhit behaviour across all political parties.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.

Also let's not forget the desensitising the new video games are achieving and the marked increase in violent crimes against the elderly.
 
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sptrawler said:
Also let's not forget the desensitising the new video games are achieving and the marked increase in violent crimes against the elderly.
Click to expand...

Seems to me that we all rejoiced when censorship was abolished and we could all read/listen/watch what we wanted to on the grounds that we were all adults and could make up our own minds.

The chickens have come home to roost on that one and have exposed the realities of society's dark side.

We won't be going back to the old days, so we'll just have to cop the worst of what we are.
 
sptrawler said:
Yes they have, but they also used to have doors held open for them, where generally treated with respect, men stood up to allow them a seat and ensured they never used foul language in front of them.
So yes some were treated very badly, from memory as a young bloke most were treated with respect, that isn't the norm these days.
Click to expand...

Agree. The cultural norms of respect for women were far stronger . And one could argue there was greater civility in our society. (But at the same time religious bigotry was very strong and the general attitudes to non whites and non straight people was pretty rank.)

Rumpy notes the abolition of censorship as perhaps contributing to the decline in behaviour ?

Maybe. The capacity of people to corrupt minds and behaviour inside social network groups is well proven. Look at cult behaviour as an example. The decision to take very strong steps against the possession of child pornography came about as it became clear this dangerous behaviour was been spread and cultivated.
 
basilio said:
Agree. The cultural norms of respect for women were far stronger . And one could argue there was greater civility in our society. (But at the same time religious bigotry was very strong and the general attitudes to non whites and non straight people was pretty rank.)

Rumpy notes the abolition of censorship as perhaps contributing to the decline in behaviour ?

Maybe. The capacity of people to corrupt minds and behaviour inside social network groups is well proven. Look at cult behaviour as an example. The decision to take very strong steps against the possession of child pornography came about as it became clear this dangerous behaviour was been spread and cultivated.
Click to expand...
basilio said:
Agree. The cultural norms of respect for women were far stronger . And one could argue there was greater civility in our society. (But at the same time religious bigotry was very strong and the general attitudes to non whites and non straight people was pretty rank.)

Rumpy notes the abolition of censorship as perhaps contributing to the decline in behaviour ?

Maybe. The capacity of people to corrupt minds and behaviour inside social network groups is well proven. Look at cult behaviour as an example. The decision to take very strong steps against the possession of child pornography came about as it became clear this dangerous behaviour was been spread and cultivated.
Click to expand...

It's a general drop in standards and the dominance of capitalism over public good, eg the infusion of gambling into sport, bars open 24 hours, pornography etc.

We tax smoking on the grounds that it's dangerous to public health, what about the other bad influences ?
 
One just has to look at what is happening in schools, to realise things arent improving, fight clubs, both girls and boys.
Racial gangs of children roaming the streets of most major towns and cities, stealing cars and causing mahem.
Kids sexting each other and dick pics, yes @basilio the media are preaching to the converted, while feeding the blood lust of the masses, in the name of a good story.
Our moral fibre is being broken down, because decadence is now being portayed as normal behaviour.
 
sptrawler said:
One just has to look at what is happening in schools, to realise things arent improving, fight clubs, both girls and boys.
Racial gangs of children roaming the streets of most major towns and cities, stealing cars and causing mahem.
Kids sexting each other and dick pics, yes @basilio the media are preaching to the converted, while feeding the blood lust of the masses, in the name of a good story.
Our moral fibre is being broken down, because decadence is now being portayed as normal behaviour.
Click to expand...
All of this whilst the rest of the population are told to be politically correct, overly serious about everything, can't take a joke anymore - let alone make one, and just generally made to sit down, shut up, grow a pair and pay your taxes...

It's all Aye over Tee. Kids spend the first decade and a half learning how to be a right prat and then the rest of their life learning how to dig out of their own cesspit and pretending things weren't this bad when they were kids...

Shouldn't it be the other way around ?
 
PZ99 said:
All of this whilst the rest of the population are told to be politically correct, overly serious about everything, can't take a joke anymore - let alone make one, and just generally made to sit down, shut up, grow a pair and pay your taxes...

It's all Aye over Tee. Kids spend the first decade and a half learning how to be a right prat and then the rest of their life learning how to dig out of their own cesspit and pretending things weren't this bad when they were kids...

Shouldn't it be the other way around ?
Click to expand...
It certainly is strange, just sit on a train and listen to how kids speak to each other girls and boys, yet nothing can be said to them, then all of a sudden apparently a magic switch is thrown and they are meant to show respect to each other.
Yet the media has free reign to say just about anything they want, pull down institutions, ridicule and denigrate anyone they see fit in the name of free and open press. Then in the next breath publicly admonish anyone who speaks freely against anything they write, or feel is righteous, free speech for the minority has become the rule as long as it aligns with the media.
The world has gone mad.
 
At every step this bloviating (apologies Cpt'n 'picka box') caricature of a leader, a clumpen sod of nasty incurious inadequacy; Proves to the nations women, and so many more, who he really ever was. And best hopefully a short abberation.

And Ah'... no, 'Hand wringers' above; Since the writing by Josef Heller of 'Catch-22' circa 1960 see the character Arfy, a frat boy rapist and murderer let off at every in-justice, as entitelment allowed it to be'; sorry wringers things have slowly progressed. Too slowly.
 
Going to be interesting to see where this story goes.
Absolutely no surprise that Senator Abetz would deny these comments about Brittany Higgins. If he didn't he could just as well blow his brains out on the floor of the Senate. Very ugly comments.

Sue Hickey , Tasmania Speaker is adament she has correctly quoted him and says she told a number of people immediately afterwards who can verify her version of events.

Clearly someone is telling porkies or protecting their political hide.

www.theguardian.com

Senator Eric Abetz denies claim he made highly offensive comments about Brittany Higgins

Tasmanian speaker Sue Hickey alleged in state parliament the veteran Liberal senator made comments ‘slut shaming’ the former Liberal staffer
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
basilio said:
Going to be interesting to see where this story goes.
Absolutely no surprise that Senator Abetz would deny these comments about Brittany Higgins. If he didn't he could just as well blow his brains out on the floor of the Senate. Very ugly comments.

Sue Hickey , Tasmania Speaker is adament she has correctly quoted him and says she told a number of people immediately afterwards who can verify her version of events.

Clearly someone is telling porkies or protecting their political hide.

www.theguardian.com

Senator Eric Abetz denies claim he made highly offensive comments about Brittany Higgins

Tasmanian speaker Sue Hickey alleged in state parliament the veteran Liberal senator made comments ‘slut shaming’ the former Liberal staffer
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
Well everyone has low opinions of politicians, the antics that are happening currently, shows those opinions are well founded IMO.
A very sad state of affairs ATM and shows what a nasty, insipid cesspit Canberra is, the old saying you need a thick skin to be a politician rings true, I would say that is one of the nicer traits a politician needs to posses.
They are all showing an absolute lack of class, manners, breeding and respectability IMO and harks back to the old saying 'there is no honor among thieves' the current stories are just reinforcing how poor our political stocks are IMO.
Hopefully these issues bring about a mass cleanout, on all sides, because I doubt very much these are isolated cases.
Obviously there is way too much taken for granted, when you get a seat in Canberra, too much easy money, too much idle time and way too many charlatans who are there for all the wrong reasons. :mad:
All of the incidences that are currently being aired, would result in instant dismissal in most industrial workplaces, so it needs to be treated seriously and get sorted out.
 
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Seems one of the people Sue Hockey told about Senator Abetzs comments was the Tasmanian Liberal Premier. He believes the situations deserves consideration.

Also appears that Christian Porter will lose AG. It does seems impossible for him to make legal decisions as AG regarding the ABC when he is suing them for defamation.

www.abc.net.au

Tasmanian Premier calls on PM to consider 'slut-shaming' accusation

MP Sue Hickey uses parliamentary privilege to accuse Liberal senator Eric Abetz of "slut-shaming" former Liberal staffer Brittany Higgins — with the senator "categorically denying the mischievous assertions".
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
The statements attributed to Abetz are reasonable I reckon.

Ministerial staffers and Ministers themselves should not be going out in public getting paralitically drunk especially if they work in a sensitive area like Defence or even if they work in other areas .

The public has a right to expect a higher standard of behaviour from our employees and it's because this sort of thing goes on that Parliament is now a laughing stock.

All very well for the women to be lecturing men about bad behaviour, but it seems they are in it as well.
 
SirRumpole said:
The statements attributed to Abetz are reasonable I reckon.

Ministerial staffers and Ministers themselves should not be going out in public getting paralitically drunk especially if they work in a sensitive area like Defence or even if they work in other areas .

The public has a right to expect a higher standard of behaviour from our employees and it's because this sort of thing goes on that Parliament is now a laughing stock.

All very well for the women to be lecturing men about bad behaviour, but it seems they are in it as well.
Click to expand...
The whole place sounds like a den of iniquity to me, they all sound like they need a good shower and a dose of penicillin.
It sounds to me like any male or female MP socialising with any staff, both get sacked, this isn't going to end well.
Any MP that has an intimate relationship with any staff, leaves themselves open to extortion at a later date, it has to be termination to both participants without exception IMO.
If they wish to have romantic overtures, get engaged and get it on, otherwise sit on it or zip it IMO.
They are all there paid by the taxpayer to run the country, not have a sex camp expo and run the country as a job on the side.
 
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