Will China end up owning the World?

[DB008]

Investigation: Why is China on the move in the South Pacific?​

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[sptrawler]

I was just responding to the previous article's think tanker saying China's just building empty cities and highways etc.

I think at the current rate, China's high speed rail will equal all the world's high speed rail in about 2022.

From glancing at the feed of its finished highways and tunnels, it's quite impressive.

China's empty cities are starting to make sense, as can been seen in this artilce.

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-...tep-efforts-lure-domestic-migrants-government
From the article:
According to a plan published in 2016, China plans to grant urban permanent residency to 100 million people by 2020.
The scramble for domestic migrants by provincial capital cities highlights an increased focus on urbanisation as municipal authorities realise that they need a consistent inflow of people to sustain local property markets and to prompt economic growth.
Hangzhou, the provincial capital city of affluent Zhejiang province, last week announced that it will grant permanent residency to migrants with college education and above, a relaxation from the previous regulation that stated a person with a college education degree can only apply for permanent residency if they are under 35 years old.
In February, the city of Xian announced that any Chinese citizen with a university degree can become a permanent resident of the city, with the rule also applying to students who have not yet graduated.
The bottom-up efforts by municipal governments are endorsed by Beijing as the central government regards “urbanisation of people” as the single largest driver for the country’s economic growth. According to a plan published in 2016, China plans to grant urban permanent residency to 100 million people by 2020.
In general, the larger a city, the more difficult it is to obtain its hukou. Beijing, for example, is famously unfriendly to domestic migrants after the municipal government kicked hundreds of thousands of domestic migrants out of the city in the winter of 2017 after a fire killed 19 people.
However, the wave began to turn as the country’s working population, defined as those aged between 16 and 59, shrank for the seventh consecutive year in 2018.

 

[sptrawler]

This thread has been quiet for a while, the answer to the question is starting to become obvious IMO, it's China's way or the highway.

'If you make China the enemy, China will be the enemy': Beijing's fresh threat to Australia

A deliberately leaked Chinese government document has laid out 14 disputes aimed at pressuring the Morrison government to reverse Australia’s position on key policies.

www.smh.com.au

I guess a lot of people in Canberra, will be wondering why they let all the Australian industries shut down, now that we get everything from one supplier.

 

[macca]

Yep, we now live in "interesting times" as per the grand plan

 

[sptrawler]

Yes it is all fine and great that the industrialized countries send their manufacturing to third world countries, to lift them out of poverty, I hope they are as magnanimous when the roles are reversed.
It is a shame, many of the ranters and chanters can't forsee what will be the result of their efforts. Lol

 

[satanoperca]

This thread has been quiet for a while, the answer to the question is starting to become obvious IMO, it's China's way or the highway.

'If you make China the enemy, China will be the enemy': Beijing's fresh threat to Australia

A deliberately leaked Chinese government document has laid out 14 disputes aimed at pressuring the Morrison government to reverse Australia’s position on key policies.

www.smh.com.au

I guess a lot of people in Canberra, will be wondering why they let all the Australian industries shut down, now that we get everything from one supplier.

Yes it is all fine and great that the industrialized countries send their manufacturing to third world countries, to lift them out of poverty, I hope they are as magnanimous when the roles are reversed.
It is a shame, many of the ranters and chanters can't forsee what will be the result of their efforts. Lol

So what do you propose?

We rode off the back of the mining boom, skyrocketing our dollar, which left everyone (manufacturing exporters) except miners unable to compete.

How do you manufacture in this country when our core inputs are so expensive, power, shelter and wages?

So back to the topic, yes China will rule, they had a 30 year plan, what do we have? Nothing

The US cannot even run an election.

We export energy but cannot keep some of it for ourselves.

The only thing I can see we can nurture as an export base is agriculture, the world needs to be feed. Oh, crap, oh dumb arse pollies have allowed the base for that industry land, to be sold off as well.

And before someone says tech centre, then they don't work in tech. No chance. To easy to export tech to any country in the world.

 

[SirRumpole]

How do you manufacture in this country when our core inputs are so expensive, power, shelter and wages?

I know it's an outdated idea, but, tariffs.

Charge each country a tariff o all their goods equal to the highest tariff they put on our goods.

See if that makes a difference.

 

[sptrawler]

I know it's an outdated idea, but, tariffs.

Charge each country a tariff o all their goods equal to the highest tariff they put on our goods.

See if that makes a difference.

Spot on Rumpy, the only way we can survive as a first world nation, with the benefits like welfare, medicare, pension etc, is to go back to the future and either re introduce tarrifs to support manufacturing, or introduce a mineral tax based on volume to pay for the building of a manufacturing base.
It isnt as though it hasnt already been done in the past, it was a condition of mining our minerals in the 1960s that down stream processing was built, that is how Kwinana, whyalla etc were started.
It has only been since the 1980s that this was dismantled and it wasnt by the Liberals as most would think, but having said that, the Libs didnt put a halt to the slide.
Also as has been shown in the U.S, trying to force manufacturers to return their factories to high wages countries isnt easy, the media relies on big business for advertising income, step on their toes and there are reprocussions as Trump found out, people only hear what the media tell them.

 

[SirRumpole]

Spot on Rumpy, the only way we can survive as a first world nation, with the benefits like welfare, medicare, pension etc, is to go back to the future and either re introduce tarrifs to support manufacturing, or introduce a mineral tax based on volume to pay for the building of a manufacturing base.
It isnt as though it hasnt already been done in the past, it was a condition of mining our minerals in the 1960s that down stream processing was built, that is how Kwinana, whyalla etc were started.
It has only been since the 1980s that this was dismantled and it wasnt by the Liberals as most would think, but having said that, the Libs didnt put a halt to the slide.
Also as has been shown in the U.S, trying to force manufacturers to return their factories to high wages countries isnt easy, the media relies on big business for advertising income, step on their toes and there are reprocussions as Trump found out, people only hear what the media tell them.

Unfortunately, governments have signed away our rights with so called "Free" Trade agreements, which have reduced or eliminated our freedom to act in the national interest.

Trump had the right idea there, throw off the shackles and do what's best for the nation.

 

[sptrawler]

Unfortunately, governments have signed away our rights with so called "Free" Trade agreements, which have reduced or eliminated our freedom to act in the national interest.

Trump had the right idea there, throw off the shackles and do what's best for the nation.

Absolutely, many poor outcomes have been born from good intent, Labor from memory signed up to the Lima agreement which had noble intent. Then Hawke/Keating commenced dismantling tarrifs to support the intent of the agreement and reduced protections and commenced deregulating the financial system.
Then Liberals came in and accelerated the privatisation of Government institutions, now 30 years on we are seeing a role reversal of the political parties, the Labor Party is pushing for a more moderate stance with China and the Liberals seem to be moving back to an Australia first stance.
It really is an interesting time, China will obviously become the Worlds major power, but for Australia to survive as we know it, IMO we have to become less dependent on Chinese manufactured goods, but that is easier said than done when they can dump their product here for nothing.
The other issue is IMO, do people really expect China to look after Australia, when our resources are depleted? So who will provide the future for our grandkids, if we dont.
It is time we stopped pizzing on ourselves and put in place a long term sustainable plan, that included producing what we can from the natural resources we have, rather than begging companies to dig it up and send it overseas to be processed, that includes lithium, rare earths, nickel, cadmium, iron ore and a the rest.
Just my opinion.

 

[cutz]

They are not dumping their products here, they are just satisfying the Aussie thirst for cheap and nasty throw away junk that's being sold all over the place, Bunnings really got the ball rolling years ago, how often have you heard the line " I'll just throw it out when it breaks and get a new one"

 

[sptrawler]

They are not dumping their products here, they are just satisfying the Aussie thirst for cheap and nasty throw away junk that's being sold all over the place, Bunnings really got the ball rolling years ago, how often have you heard the line " I'll just throw it out when it breaks and get a new one"

That is very true and it wasnt long ago that our tool manufacturing closed down sidchrome, it is like anything else, if it is worth protecting it has to be given a level of assistance.
You cant make a socket set in Australia for the same price as China, if you pay Australian wages, super,annual leave, sickies, long service leave, redundacy payments etc, so if you dont put a tarrif on the Chinese product how do you keep the Australian product competitive.
Then that leads to the question if you cant and it should be shut down, how do you keep the workers conditions in Australia, when you shut down all the work?
Which then goes back to what can we do here at a reasonably cost effective point, IMO it is using modern processes to value add to our resources.
We should have the biggest lithium ion battery manufacturing plants in the world, we have all the basic ingredients required.
Why do we send the rare earths to malasia to process?

 

[cutz]

That is very true and it wasnt long ago that our tool manufacturing closed down sidchrome, it is like anything else, if it is worth protecting it has to be given a level of assistance.
You cant make a socket set in Australia for the same price as China, if you pay Australian wages, super,annual leave, sickies, long service leave, redundacy payments etc, so if you dont put a tarrif on the Chinsse product how do you keep the Australian product competitive.
Then that leads to the question if you cant and it should be shut down, how do you keep the workers conditions in Australia, when you shut down all the work?

It's a shame yeah. "You Canner Hand A Man A Grander Spanner" , no longer true ...

I still own aussie made sidchrome tools, and whenever I come across the old sidchrome in a second hand shop I will snap it up.

Me personally I do make a conscientious decision when buying tools and am prepared to pay a premium, the Americans and Germans can still manufacture even with the OK wages/sickies/leave, amazon can supply US and German made tooling at reasonable pricing, I have purchased through them, you can also still buy Australian made torque wrenches (W&B), little pricy but they are tools for life, I even purchased a Spanish made ceiling exhaust fan this week to replace the original that failed, the options are out there, just got to do a little ground work.

 

[sptrawler]

It's a shame yeah. "You Canner Hand A Man A Grander Spanner" , no longer true ...

I still own aussie made sidchrome tools, and whenever I come across the old sidchrome in a second hand shop I will snap it up.

Me personally I do make a conscientious decision when buying tools and am prepared to pay a premium, the Americans and Germans can still manufacture even with the OK wages/sickies/leave, amazon can supply US and German made tooling at reasonable pricing, I have purchased through them, you can also still buy Australian made torque wrenches (W&B), little pricy but they are tools for life, I even purchased a Spanish made ceiling exhaust fan this week to replace the original that failed, the options are out there, just got to do a little ground work.

Again what you say is true and I also have a Web and Brown torque wrench.
But where the U.S and Europe have a huge advantage over us is, they have a much larger domestic market place and neither has the wages and conditions we enjoy, German car manufacturers from memory use a lot of imported labour and outsource production to third world countries.
The VW Golf 2.0 TDi I bought in 2005 was manufactured in South Africa.
Australia since the 1960s has been living in a purple patch, easily and cheaply recovered minerals that are being removed at an ever increasing speed, when they have been removed what then?
At the moment we go to Bali and behave like millionaires, we import labour from South Pacific islands, while 1.2 million are on jobseeker, it really doesnt inspire confidence in our ability to overcome our underlying problems IMO.

 

[cutz]

Again what you say is true and I also have a Web and Brown torque wrench.
But where the U.S and Europe have a huge advantage over us is, they have a much larger domestic market place and neither has the wages and conditions we enjoy, German car manufacturers from memory use a lot of imported labour and outsource production to third world countries.
The VW Golf 2.0 TDi I bought in 2005 was manufactured in South Africa.
Australia since the 1960s has been living in a purple patch, easily and cheaply recovered minerals that are being removed at an ever increasing speed, when they have been removed what then?
At the moment we go to Bali and behave like millionaires, we import labour from South Pacific islands, while 1.2 million are on jobseeker, it really doesnt inspire confidence in our ability to overcome our underlying problems IMO.

Hi Mate,

I have a couple of Warren & Brown torque wrenches , they tend to keep their cal for longer due to the simple but effective deflecting beam principle.

With regards to the European manufacturers, I think they use Asian and African plants to feed the local markets and Australia, correct me if I'm wrong.

From what I can gather, the Americans have a greater sense of patriotic pride than us Aussies, that's why their manufacturers have the edge, as a whole we tend to chase cheap products and even cheaper Asian holidays. BTW, never been to Bali, although pricier I have always preferred far north Queensland away from the bogans..

 

[sptrawler]

So true mate, I went to Bali once in 1992, never been back, it was a 14 day holiday jumped on the plane back after 10 days. lol
The tension wrench is that old, I had forgotten the name only has ft lb on the scale and I couldn't be bothered googling it, the little wire bit still pops out so all good. ?

 

[bellenuit]

China make have taken a step too far with its aggressive attitude and policies. Countries are beginning to wake up to the threat posed.

Justin Trudeau at APEC calls on middle powers to step up

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has called for middle and smaller nations to step up where the US has stepped back to shore up multilateral institutions and ensure that China “plays by the rules”, in a powerful address to the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation summit.

Mr Trudeau used his speech on Friday to the Malaysia-hosted digital meeting to warn the era of “Pax Americana” was over — notwithstanding an anticipated shift back to multilateralism under president-elect Joe Biden — and smaller nations needed to pull together to show leadership on issues from global trade to coercive Chinese diplomacy.

“It’s time for smaller countries to realise we all have a weight and ability to shape global leadership in meaningful ways for our citizens and neighbours,” Mr Trudeau told the APEC summit in a 45-minute online address that included a question-and-answer session.

“In the face of pressure and increasingly coercive moves by one of the world’s great powers, it really highlights we need to be working together as allies, as neighbours, as friends, as countries.

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

 

[frugal.rock]

So back to the topic, yes China will rule, they had a 30 year plan, what do we have? Nothing

We export energy but cannot keep some of it for ourselves.

Agreed.

Energy? We give it away at bargain prices whilst we get bent over a barrel pricewise on our own market...
Totally bizarre behaviour.

 

[SirRumpole]

China make have taken a step too far with its aggressive attitude and policies. Countries are beginning to wake up to the threat posed.

Justin Trudeau at APEC calls on middle powers to step up

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has called for middle and smaller nations to step up where the US has stepped back to shore up multilateral institutions and ensure that China “plays by the rules”, in a powerful address to the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation summit.

Mr Trudeau used his speech on Friday to the Malaysia-hosted digital meeting to warn the era of “Pax Americana” was over — notwithstanding an anticipated shift back to multilateralism under president-elect Joe Biden — and smaller nations needed to pull together to show leadership on issues from global trade to coercive Chinese diplomacy.

“It’s time for smaller countries to realise we all have a weight and ability to shape global leadership in meaningful ways for our citizens and neighbours,” Mr Trudeau told the APEC summit in a 45-minute online address that included a question-and-answer session.

“In the face of pressure and increasingly coercive moves by one of the world’s great powers, it really highlights we need to be working together as allies, as neighbours, as friends, as countries.

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

Good one Justin, that's leadership.

 

[basilio]

I thought Stan Grant wrote a very perceptive analysis in the ABC of how China would view Australia from a strategic Great Power view.

To be fair the US takes a very similar position in its economic relations around the world. It expects foreign countries to support US enterprises and takes a very dim view of countries that do not support US foreign policy directions.

Imagine for a moment the view from Beijing. It looks something like this

Surely no one still believes that Australia doesn't have to choose between our American alliance and our China trade dependence? Beijing has shown it will make those choices for us, writes Stan Grant.

www.abc.net.au