Do you think Costello introduced it to get peeps out of union funds?
The ScoMo Government
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No, I think they actually were running quite a large surplus and at the time there were no obvious federal infra structure projects required, so they reduced personal tax rates and started the franking credit returns and the future fund.
Also at the time super was very early in its establishment and older workers had no time to build their balances, so a $1m one of was started so people could sell, down size and chuck the money in before they retired. I know one bloke who did it, I was actually out to dinner with him and his wife last night, they are in their mid 80's, and have enjoyed their retirement, still self funded.
The Industry funds were only just getting established back then, and SMSF's didn't really take off untill the early 2000's, most people like myself started them because of the collapse of a lot of investment companies in the 1987 crash and later.
I like others thought F*&k it I can loose it just as easy as them, at least it will be my fault, not because some bar%tard has done a shonky with my money. It was actually hard to run a small fund in the early days, it has become easier now with companies like esuper and other online super administrators.
In hindsight, if the CC initiative was full steam ahead, like it is now, the money would have probably been spent on infra structure instead of being given back to the taxpayers.
It would be great if we were in the same position now, no debt and running big surpluses, it will be a long time before we get back to that. IMO
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What i'm finding now is a lot of my ex work mates, who just had a good time, are all looking around for someone to blame for the crap position they find themselves in.
Some who were sparkies, became supervisors and planners, now hitting retirement, are still renting and wondering where all their money went.
I've seen people on $120K a year in 2020 $ (so adjusting for inflation using the RBA's online calculator since this was a few years ago) blow the lot and haven't got a cent to their name.
I've also seen people on half that income retire before age 60 completely self funded, no pension.
Certainly there are plenty who've suffered genuine misfortune and so on but there are also plenty who have had an abundance of opportunity they failed to take.
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No - it offered no particular advantage by leaving a fund versus staying in it.
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Yes it really is just application, perserverance, sacrifice and self discipline.I've seen people on $120K a year in 2020 $ (so adjusting for inflation using the RBA's online calculator since this was a few years ago) blow the lot and haven't got a cent to their name.
I've also seen people on half that income retire before age 60 completely self funded, no pension.
Certainly there are plenty who've suffered genuine misfortune and so on but there are also plenty who have had an abundance of opportunity they failed to take.
As you say, how much you earn is actually a small part of the formulae, some great friends of ours worked two labouring jobs, ethnic backgrounds are retired in their early 60's and deserve everything they've got. Terrific people.
IFocus
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That pretty well sums up what I did, like you say if you start early enough it isn't hard.
What i'm finding now is a lot of my ex work mates, who just had a good time, are all looking around for someone to blame for the crap position they find themselves in.
Some who were sparkies, became supervisors and planners, now hitting retirement, are still renting and wondering where all their money went.
It amazes me how many people have the, "why worry I could be dead tomorrow" attitude when it come to saving.
A lot are going to be using a chunk of their super to pay off their mortgage, others are just going to have to rent and a few are well set up.
I have had the "how lucky I am" but its just been how hard my wife and I have worked and not spent money on shiny objects (luck is always a factor in reality like being born in Australia) still we are all different and that's not always a bad thing
We had a tradesman come and put a new room on our house a few weeks ago.He was angry with his situation...His Scottish wife had taken the two kids back to her roots in Scotland-got a divorce-got half of everything ,house etc,and now was after his super.
People are caught up in all sorts of circumstances,illness etc.I would never pass judgement on people not saving for their retirement.We are not all the recipient of halcyon circumstances.
People are caught up in all sorts of circumstances,illness etc.I would never pass judgement on people not saving for their retirement.We are not all the recipient of halcyon circumstances.
Just thought of other ones I now of ..Drug dependent children bleeding their parents and the parents having to go through expensive litigation to save their grandchildren.These conversations remind of coming off at the end of a football game and one player saying to the team..I worked harder than you mob today.Probably not a good analogy but all I could think of at short notice.
greggles
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Exactly. And what about the old people caught up in corporate collapses like Storm Financial and Equititrust who see their retirement funds disappear in a puff of smoke? The government won't hold corporate grubs to account, so as far as I'm concerned it's their responsibility to clean up the mess and make sure these unfortunate old people can put a roof over their heads and food in their mouths.
Everyone has different circumstances and we shouldn't take a blanket approach to anything.
Two quotes come to mind:
"Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes." and "The greatness of a nation can be judged by how it treats its weakest members."
I would of thought with all the pi$$ &vinegar I read in here when the threat of losing them
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Agreed definitely.
Where the point came from in the context of this thread though is whether those who do have the opportunity and actually take it should be effectively punished for doing so?
Or should those who have the opportunity and take it pay the same rates of tax on their income as anyone else with the same level of income?
Put a special high tax on something, anything, and it has the effect of discouraging that product or activity. Hence “sin” taxes and hence the argument about taxing pollution.
I can see valid reasons to discourage things like tobacco but I’ve yet to see a rational argument as to why someone investing and avoiding welfare is a bad thing which ought to be discouraged indeed the reverse is true, for each individual who self funds everyone else benefits via the saving of a considerable sum of taxpayers’ money.
If the argument is that I should not invest now, thus paying less tax, and should receive welfare if unemployed or when retired well then that’s no great loss to me personally. It is however a financial loss to everyone else who’ll be paying for it.
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The Industry funds are very good, as has been shown by their results and the way they have come out clean through several investigations. If I was closing down my SMSF I wouldn't hesitate to go to an Industry Fund.
There has also been a lot of consolidation with funds, I know where I worked our super rolled over into Australian Super and I thought they were very good. I actually got my M.I.L to roll her super into Australian Super and over the last 10 years they have really looked after her, even though it was only in the cash fund.
What galled me about the franking credit issue was, I actually enjoy running my SMSF and investing, therefore I would like to continue to do so.
The problem was I would be left at a complete disadvantage to the Industry funds, as they would get the franking credits and I would lose them, this would leave me with very little option.
As I said if they take it off SMSF's, they should also take it off all the other funds, someone mentioned about the "aussie fair go", well that real spat in the face of a fair go.
I don't mind losing them, if every one else in the same boat does.
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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Neighbors who retired ended up in this exact situation with two grandkids youngest 3 years old result of a problem daughter at least the kids will get a good upbringing, but yes lots of circumstances where people don't get the opportunities to do what I have done.
I think we all know someone who has saved it all, spent it all, hit a pothole, and anywhere in between.
I would think probably 10% of the population experience adversity, myself included, but fortunately it happened in my 30s so I had time to regroup.
At that age still fit and keen, found something and worked 80 hours a week if necessary until I was back on my feet.
A friend hit a rough spot too, unfortunately he was 64 when it happened, both still working at 68/70 just to pay off their mortgage while they can still work
The fickle finger of fate can be a nasty bast**d sometimes
I would think probably 10% of the population experience adversity, myself included, but fortunately it happened in my 30s so I had time to regroup.
At that age still fit and keen, found something and worked 80 hours a week if necessary until I was back on my feet.
A friend hit a rough spot too, unfortunately he was 64 when it happened, both still working at 68/70 just to pay off their mortgage while they can still work
The fickle finger of fate can be a nasty bast**d sometimes
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Just reinforces the fact a person has to accumulate as early as possible, life, health,opportunity and recovery time all disappear.
It is something that is so hard to explain to young people. They think "here we go again" and you think jeez I wish I didn't sound like a dick.
All the old sayings are based on sound experience, yet no one applies them, nothing much changes.
It is something that is so hard to explain to young people. They think "here we go again" and you think jeez I wish I didn't sound like a dick.
All the old sayings are based on sound experience, yet no one applies them, nothing much changes.
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Just reinforces the fact a person has to accumulate as early as possible, life, health,opportunity and recovery time all disappear.
It is something that is so hard to explain to young people. They think "here we go again" and you think jeez I wish I didn't sound like a dick.
All the old sayings are based on sound experience, yet no one applies them, nothing much changes.
I nominate VC to go on a lecture tour of schools and tell them how to do it.
Seriously some life experience talks to the young 'uns from people like him and other members would be a good lesson.
There is a book there if you want to write it VC.
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Well I did mention today, that the grandson could do worse than join the military, he is only 9 so she said where did that come from.I nominate VC to go on a lecture tour of schools and tell them how to do it.
Seriously some life experience talks to the young 'uns from people like him and other members would be a good lesson.
There is a book there if you want to write it VC.
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9's a bit young for the Army I think.Well I did mention today, that the grandson could do worse than join the military, he is only 9 so she said where did that come from.
Should be OK down the coal mines though.....
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Yes well im thinking, he isnt doing that well with maths, so rather than defer to the, oh he will be a brain surgeon, im looking at plan b9's a bit young for the Army I think.
Should be OK down the coal mines though.....
My appologies for the text im using the phone, size 2 keys and size 10 fingers.
I will explain it bette r when I have a keyboard
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What? No one is going to say it?
What? No one is as in the filth as deep as Allan Jones?
Not even given the circumstances?
I wont say it . I just think it. Ohh Yes I think it. And would not be surprised by it being fact.
Congratulations to others for their restraint.
What? No one is as in the filth as deep as Allan Jones?
Not even given the circumstances?
I wont say it . I just think it. Ohh Yes I think it. And would not be surprised by it being fact.
Congratulations to others for their restraint.
