The ScoMo Government

[SirRumpole]

In Australia everyone gets priviliges, one way or another.
Be it concessions, franking credit rebates to all levels, or straight hand outs.
Thats what makes it difficult, for amyone to take the moral high ground, or decide which sector is going to lose.
Just my opinion

Very true. It's also very hard to take priviledges away, even from people who don't actually need them.

 

[SirRumpole]

But also I can't imagine Hawke or Howard needing their hand held to such an extent.

That's the whole problem, trying to manage the optics of a disaster after the event rather than contributing to its reduction beforehand.

 

[Logique]

True.

And for the record, spt and SirR, franking credits are not a privilege, they are a reimbursement of tax already paid on your behalf by someone else (so you don't have to pay tax twice).

Credit to Albo, he eventually worked this out.

Which is more than I can say for Bowen-omics. Since succeeded by his protege Dr Jim, who doubtless had a big hand in the erstwhile policy development

 

[SirRumpole]

And for the record, spt and SirR, franking credits are not a privilege, they are a reimbursement of tax already paid on your behalf by someone else (so you don't have to pay tax twice).

Paid on your behalf by someone else ?

So why don't the refunds go to the people who actually paid the tax in the first place ?

 

[sptrawler]

Very true. It's also very hard to take priviledges away, even from people who don't actually need them.

Absolutely try taking the franking credits off those on the top tax bracket, or taking the pension of those sitting on the balcony overlooking Sydney Harbour.

 

[sptrawler]

Paid on your behalf by someone else ?

So why don't the refunds go to the people who actually paid the tax in the first place ?

So why not extend that to the pension? Where do you draw the line? or do you just keep moving it until you pick of all the low hanging fruit? Only those who work and pay taxes can claim help, well that gets really open ended? but that doesn't seem to bother anyone, until it affects them.lol

 

[sptrawler]

True.

And for the record, spt and SirR, franking credits are not a privilege, they are a reimbursement of tax already paid on your behalf by someone else (so you don't have to pay tax twice).

Credit to Albo, he eventually worked this out.

Which is more than I can say for Bowen-omics. Since succeeded by his protege Dr Jim, who doubtless had a big hand in the erstwhile policy development

Like I said Logique, everyone received the franking credit, whether that be a smsf pensioner, a single mum with a few shares, or Twiggy Forrest.
The fact that those on a low income don't pay as much tax, doesn't come into it, those on $100m a year dividends would be getting $30m back by not paying that tax. The whole idea was wrong and incredibly stupid, what I can't understand is how some cheered it on.
Anyway history showed most weren't stupid, it was the thin edge of the wedge.

 

[Humid]

Like I said Logique, everyone received the franking credit, whether that be a smsf pensioner, a single mum with a few shares, or Twiggy Forrest.
The fact that those on a low income don't pay as much tax, doesn't come into it, those on $100m a year dividends would be getting $30m back by not paying that tax. The whole idea was wrong and incredibly stupid, what I can't understand is how some cheered it on.
Anyway history showed most weren't stupid, it was the thin edge of the wedge.

How you can be taxed twice while paying no tax
At best you would be taxed once

 

[Smurf1976]

Paid on your behalf by someone else ?

So why don't the refunds go to the people who actually paid the tax in the first place ?

Because ultimately those who made the payment are simply employees working on behalf of the owners of the company, it's not their money, so any refund belongs to the owners.

 

[Smurf1976]

How you can be taxed twice while paying no tax
At best you would be taxed once

In simple terms the franking credits issue can be summed up as saying:

*Everyone at present gets a Tax Free Threshold on income up to $18,200 and pays a rate of 19% for income over $18,200 and less than $37,000.

*This arrangement applies to everyone. Someone could earn $100 million a year but they still get the first $18,200 tax free and they still get the 19% rate too.

*The practical implication of Labor's former proposal raised the minimum tax rate for someone who's only income is from franked dividends to 30%, thus removing the 0% and 19% rates for these people.

*As a practical example, someone could earn $100K a year from employment and earn $30K in franked dividends. They would have paid no extra tax under what was proposed.

*If the same person then became unemployed, that's when they'd have faced the increased tax.

It was a tax on being moderately wealthy but out of work basically. The sort of wealth that someone working in an ordinary job could accumulate over time and which avoids them ever claiming Newstart or the Age Pension.

Anyone with no assets had nothing to lose and anyone with a high income was also unaffected in practice. It's the retired truck drivers, plumbers and office assistants who nobody will employ because they're too old who needed to worry, not Gina Rinehart and not someone who's never had a job. Hence the election outcome which saw wealthy electorates swing to Labor whilst the working class went to the Coalition.

Thankfully they've dropped the policy now and my hope is that it signals the start of a much broader return to Labor's traditional base of representing the working class not the upper class.

 

[sptrawler]

How you can be taxed twice while paying no tax
At best you would be taxed once

You should maybe ask silly Billy, because he was only going to apply it to SMSF and not Industry Funds, that is the problem with policy driven by trying to make it fit the outcome.
The outcome becomes really F#$&d up, but as was proven in the election, only the rich and rusted on, lapped it up.
Why were they taking it off smsf, but you would get it back if you transfer to an Industry Fund or retail fund( in reality the later are on the nose), it isn't rocket science and everyone saw through it.
Maybe Chris isn't going around to Paul's place every week anymore, and now Albo is in the Chardonnay set might f$&ck off out of the Labour Party.
Also while we are asking questions, why did your lot vote for you to get a tax cut, when your on $250k a year?

 

[SirRumpole]

Because ultimately those who made the payment are simply employees working on behalf of the owners of the company, it's not their money, so any refund belongs to the owners.

I have to disagree there.

The company made the payment and it's a legal entity in itself, that's why shareholders have limited liability.

So if the company wants to pay tax for a shareholder , then the company should get the credits, and it's then up to them to give the money to the shareholders if they so desire.

 

[sptrawler]

I have to disagree there.

The company made the payment and it's a legal entity in itself, that's why shareholders have limited liability.

So if the company wants to pay tax for a shareholder , then the company should get the credits, and it's then up to them to give the money to the shareholders if they so desire.

So why were Labour only going to take it off a select few?
Why not take it off all.
How can you espouse the virtue's of Labour for calling the Royal Commission on banks, due to them rotting peole, then in the next breath congratulate them for supporting industry super rorting franking credits?

 

[SirRumpole]

So why were Labour only going to take it off a select few?
Why not take it off all.
How can you espouse the virtue's of Labour for calling the Royal Commission on banks, due to them rotting peole, then in the next breath congratulate them for supporting industry super rorting franking credits?

Basically the point I objected to (and said so on this site) was that people getting $100k tax free super pension were able to get these rebates.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...eral-election-2019.34619/page-36#post-1027316

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...eral-election-2019.34619/page-46#post-1028115

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...-imputation-system.34281/page-12#post-1014295

You liked a couple of those so I think we are on the same wavelength.

 

[sptrawler]

Basically the point I objected to (and said so on this site) was that people getting $100k tax free super pension were able to get these rebates.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...eral-election-2019.34619/page-36#post-1027316

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...eral-election-2019.34619/page-46#post-1028115

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...-imputation-system.34281/page-12#post-1014295

You liked a couple of those so I think we are on the same wavelength.

Absolutely make super taxable and give everyone the pension, then it is a reward system, if you want a better retirement you save for it, at the moment they are saying if you want a better retirement we'll take it off you.
It's just BS.
It just makes me bloody angry.
What Labour were going to do was just disgraceful, take it of smsf and low income people, give it to billionaires and those in industry Funds, what a bloody disgrace thank God Albo is in and the idiots have been removed.

 

[Humid]

6years of liberal government
Still harping on about Labor lol

I imagine they voted for it because it's their bracket

 

[sptrawler]

6years of liberal government
Still harping on about Labor lol

I imagine they voted for it because it's their bracket

Unfortunately there wasnt an alternative, hopefully in 2 years there is, I know that is hard for you to understand.
As you get older and less employable, less of pretty much everything, you will start and understand.lol

 

[Smurf1976]

I imagine they voted for it because it's their bracket

If there's one thing I'd really like to see change in Australian politics it's the notion that everyone ought to vote for self interest which the media constantly promotes.

It wasn't like that always, there was a much greater focus on what was good for the country overall, and we'd all ultimately benefit from a return to that.

 

[Humid]

If there's one thing I'd really like to see change in Australian politics it's the notion that everyone ought to vote for self interest which the media constantly promotes.


It wasn't like that always, there was a much greater focus on what was good for the country overall, and we'd all ultimately benefit from a return to that.

It starts with the politicians

 

[Smurf1976]

It starts with the politicians

Agreed to an extent but there's an awful lot of fuel thrown on the fire by the media too.