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Australian Federal Election - 2019

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sptrawler said:
Humid, another rusted on Labor voter, said exactly the same thing before the election. The only difference, it was going to be Bill that was going to do it to me.
This is the whole problem with you guys, as long as you are screwing the middle class, your happy. Well I certainly hope you maintain that belief, because Labor will never get in, while you do.:xyxthumbs
You must be pleased, your investment properties, are out of the spotlight now.:roflmao:
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Your not middle class you would need a job for that
Your unemployed with too much money for new start
 
Humid said:
Your not middle class you would need a job for that
Your unemployed with too much money for new start
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Hi Humid, haven't heard from you for a while, sounds like you will get your tax cut.:xyxthumbs
By the way, you don't have to have much money, to not qualify for newstart.
I qualified for disability, when I stopped work 7 years ago, but I chose to self fund so there you go. lol
 
sptrawler said:
Hi Humid, haven't heard from you for a while, sounds like you will get your tax cut.:xyxthumbs
By the way, you don't have to have much money, to not qualify for newstart.
I qualified for disability, when I stopped work 7 years ago, but I chose to self fund so there you go. lol
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Yeah after you spend your redundancies and holiday money
 
This is how you win an election when you are a totally unscrupulous politician and a country doesn't have the capacity to call you to account.
It's detailed and powerful story of how lies can be created and spread through the internet and influence the views and votes of tens of thousands of people.

It felt like a big tide': how the death tax lie infected Australia's election campaign
A trickle of misinformation about Labor policy became a torrent on Facebook as the campaign unfolded. A Guardian investigation has tracked the course of the death tax scare, revealing alarming implications for Australian democracy

Katharine Murphy and Christopher Knaus

Fri 7 Jun 2019 21.00 BST Last modified on Fri 7 Jun 2019 23.12 BST

  • A Facebook post from the LNP MP George Christensen making the false claim that Labor planned to introduce a death tax if it won the Australian election. Photograph: FACEBO
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basilio said:
This is how you win an election when you are a totally unscrupulous politician and a country doesn't have the capacity to call you to account.
It's detailed and powerful story of how lies can be created and spread through the internet and influence the views and votes of tens of thousands of people.

It felt like a big tide': how the death tax lie infected Australia's election campaign
A trickle of misinformation about Labor policy became a torrent on Facebook as the campaign unfolded. A Guardian investigation has tracked the course of the death tax scare, revealing alarming implications for Australian democracy

Katharine Murphy and Christopher Knaus

Fri 7 Jun 2019 21.00 BST Last modified on Fri 7 Jun 2019 23.12 BST

  • A Facebook post from the LNP MP George Christensen making the false claim that Labor planned to introduce a death tax if it won the Australian election. Photograph: FACEBO
Shares
430


775.jpg
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I'm sorry but that is a very very small part of why labor lost this election. These kind of bs articles to deflect blame is why labor will keep enjoying bring in opposition.

Did this hack mention the "Mediscare" campaign that was run by labor previously?
And then she wants to what?
Criminalize speech even more perhaps...

Labor made too many enemies with policy hits in a economy on the downturn. And shorten was as appealing as a sht pie.
 
moXJO said:
I'm sorry but that is a very very small part of why labor lost this election.
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I agree. I wasn't even aware that there were false claims being made regarding Labor introducing a Death Tax, so that couldn't have been wide spread propaganda. Additionally, none of the "letters to the editor" I have read since the election in any paper has had anyone even mention that claim as being an issue for them rejecting Labor.
 
Interesting isn't it ? In fact the article did mention Labours Mediscare campaign and did make a point of saying there weren't many clean hands.

And this "Death Tax" campaign cannot be identified as the sole cause for Labours loss. Too many other things went wrong.

The interesting part was that this seemed to be a strictly Facebook campaign flicked around by George Christenson in particular and targeted at the older generation who were made fearful of a giant new Death Tax. The points that were made were
1) At what stage should governments or individual politicians be pulled up for such creative story telling ?
2) How /who monitors the sort of underground Facebook campaigns that were been used. These were particularly well targeted. And George Christensen did very well thank you..
 
basilio said:
Interesting isn't it ? In fact the article did mention Labours Mediscare campaign and did make a point of saying there weren't many clean hands.

And this "Death Tax" campaign cannot be identified as the sole cause for Labours loss. Too many other things went wrong.

The interesting part was that this seemed to be a strictly Facebook campaign flicked around by George Christenson in particular and targeted at the older generation who were made fearful of a giant new Death Tax. The points that were made were
1) At what stage should governments or individual politicians be pulled up for such creative story telling ?
2) How /who monitors the sort of underground Facebook campaigns that were been used. These were particularly well targeted. And George Christensen did very well thank you..
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It's a bit hard to outlaw rumours I'm afraid.

Unfortunately the success of such tactics have set the tone for future campaigns.

No more big targets or carefully thought out policies, it will be negative scare tactics from now on.
 
SirRumpole said:
It's a bit hard to outlaw rumours I'm afraid.

Unfortunately the success of such tactics have set the tone for future campaigns.

No more big targets or carefully thought out policies, it will be negative scare tactics from now on.
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But these wern't "rumours " were they? The Facebook ads talked of a death tax. They put figures on it. It was a calculated lie.

In the past parties have tried to smear opponents with lies and used secretive measures to avoid the consequences of being seen to make up stories that poison the well. For example in 2007 a Liberal Candidate secretly produced and distributed a leaflet that associated the Labour Party with a (fake) extremist Islamic group. The scam was discovered and caused a lot of grief to John Howard not to mention Jackie Kelly.

But in 2019 you don't need to use leaflets and get caught. A targeted Facebook campaign can reach thousands more people. Where do we go from here ?
_______________________________________________
The Lindsay pamphlet scandal was an Australian electoral scandal in which Liberal Party volunteers distributed fake election pamphlets, claiming to be from an Islamic organisation that was later found not to exist, that claimed the Labor Party candidate would support clemency for convicted terrorists and the construction of a mosque in the local area. The incident made national and even international headlines on 21 November 2007, three days before the 2007 Australian Federal election.[1]

The retiring Liberal member of parliament representing the federal Division of Lindsay, Jackie Kelly, was forced to explain why her husband, local orthodontist Gary Clark, was caught distributing the pamphlets with four other people.[2] The pamphlets, claiming to be from "The Islamic Australia Federation", thanked the Australian Labor Party (ALP) for supporting terrorists involved with the 2002 Bali bombings.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsay_pamphlet_scandal

It's not 2007 any more. We need new tools to fight election lies
Lenore Taylor
In the Howard era, spreading misinformation was laborious and there were consequences for getting caught. Now it is rampant and it seems no one cares
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...007-any-more-new-tools-election-lies-facebook
 
This how the Liberals promoted the fake death tax story.

Liberal headquarters insists it played no role in the proliferating social sharing, and senior figures downplay the contribution of fake news to the election result, but the Morrison campaign was clearly happy to amplify the contentions. The Liberals paid for a series of ads running from multiple Facebook accounts from 13 May, all mirroring the death tax messaging.

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A Facebook post outlining the supposed detail of Labor’s death tax. Photograph: Facebook
The ads featured a video titled “Why is Bill Shorten so defensive about an inheritance tax?”, which spliced together vision of multiple Labor candidates repeating the words “death tax” and “secret plan for a death tax”. This was the embodiment of Labor’s feared Catch 22: that they would stoke their own fake news problem.

Those ads, which Liberal insiders insist were a minuscule proportion of a campaign advertising buy doubtless running into millions of dollars, ran from the central Facebook accounts of the Liberal party and LNP, as well as from the pages of MPs Peter Dutton, Ross Vasta, Ken O’Dowd and Warren Entsch, among others.

To put the death tax intervention in context, in total the Liberal party posted about 200 videos from mid-April to campaign day on its Facebook page, and made more than 600 posts.

State-based MPs also began paying for Facebook ads to amplify the message. Colin Boyce, a Queensland state MP, used money from his own budget to boost an ad stating: “A Death Tax is a real possibility under a union controlled Labor Government. A families [sic] house in the city or a family’s rural property may have to be sold to pay a Labor Government 40% Death Tax.”

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...tax-lie-infected-australias-election-campaign
 
I spoke with a friend of mine, a lawyer in Family Law. She works for a major law firm in Melbourne. She talked about the death tax and how she and her parents were shocked by it.....this was last week, they still believe it was an actual Labor policy! I don't think for a second that it is the reason they lost, but it certainly wouldn't have helped.
 
From memory, the inheritance tax rumour started in mid 2018, it was reported in the West Australian that the ACTU had asked the opposition to consider it when considering the other tax changes.
I wasn't here for the pre election spiel, I guess it was used a lot in the campaign, I personally think the negative gearing, CGT and franking issues would have had more impact.
I guess the rumour originated from this document.
https://www.fpwhitepaper.gov.au/sit...07-633-australian-council-of-trade-unions.pdf

From the document:
Increase taxes on Australian and foreign corporations, and restore a fair level of wealth and inheritance tax on the wealthiest citizens who have reaped the advantages of income and wealth growth at the expense of the vast majority of citizens
 
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sptrawler said:
I wasn't here for the pre election spiel, I guess it was used a lot in the campaign, I personally think the negative gearing, CGT and franking issues would have had more impact.
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Go and talk to workers in traditionally strong Labor blue collar areas and I think you'll get pretty close to the crux of the problem.

They're still waiting for the "transition" and other things that successive governments of both persuasions have been promising for the last 30 or so years. It ain't happening and they and many others have given up. Given up not on Labor or Liberal but given up on the entire concept that any government is going to do something to help the mainstream. The idea of adding coal miners, retirees and others to the list sends shudders down their spine really.

Listen to Shorten's concession speech and it's more of the same. Lots of stuff about minorities, the odd good idea here and there, but a failure to focus on the mainstream and to fix what needs to be fixed.

There are still children growing up in poverty. There's 20%+ unemployment in some regions. There are still a lot of "real" issues affecting Aboriginal communities. There are people who won't be considered for work simply because they live near the farm or mine. Essential living costs are going up but ordinary workers' wages aren't. And so on. Focus on that sort of stuff, deliver on past promises, and stop worrying about things which appeal to wealthy inner city types.

That's not to say the others have ideas which are actually good but there's no point adding more to the list when there's already a huge backlog of things to be fixed. Last thing anyone needs is more promises. Instead just go back over the old ones and get them done, only once they're all delivered is it time for any "big agenda" type thinking.

The Liberals didn't really have any good ideas but that's precisely the point. There's enough outstanding promises as it is without adding more to the list. Promising nothing whilst doing at least something is thus more credible than adding to the list of things not done. :2twocents
 
Smurf1976 said:
Go and talk to workers in traditionally strong Labor blue collar areas and I think you'll get pretty close to the crux of the problem.

They're still waiting for the "transition" and other things that successive governments of both persuasions have been promising for the last 30 or so years. It ain't happening and they and many others have given up. Given up not on Labor or Liberal but given up on the entire concept that any government is going to do something to help the mainstream. The idea of adding coal miners, retirees and others to the list sends shudders down their spine really.

Listen to Shorten's concession speech and it's more of the same. Lots of stuff about minorities, the odd good idea here and there, but a failure to focus on the mainstream and to fix what needs to be fixed.

There are still children growing up in poverty. There's 20%+ unemployment in some regions. There are still a lot of "real" issues affecting Aboriginal communities. There are people who won't be considered for work simply because they live near the farm or mine. Essential living costs are going up but ordinary workers' wages aren't. And so on. Focus on that sort of stuff, deliver on past promises, and stop worrying about things which appeal to wealthy inner city types.

That's not to say the others have ideas which are actually good but there's no point adding more to the list when there's already a huge backlog of things to be fixed. Last thing anyone needs is more promises. Instead just go back over the old ones and get them done, only once they're all delivered is it time for any "big agenda" type thinking.

The Liberals didn't really have any good ideas but that's precisely the point. There's enough outstanding promises as it is without adding more to the list. Promising nothing whilst doing at least something is thus more credible than adding to the list of things not done. :2twocents
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That is probably a very good point smurph.
Just adding more new taxes, to a population that is fed up of hearing we just need more and nothing getting fixed. Yep you may have hit the nail on the head.
 
Interesting evidence to support what we have been saying for years, polls are fixed to get the result they want.

https://www.watoday.com.au/politics...ed-labor-losing-election-20190604-p51u9v.html

From the article:
Mr Lonergan said it was possible a degree of "herding" had taken place – a phenomenon whereby pollsters "basically weight your data until you get a result which is in line with the result that you would like to publish, which is not out of step [with competitors]".
 
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