Australian Federal Election - 2019

[basilio]

Well that was a surprise... Certainly makes ScoMo look like The Messiah.

It was interesting to hear comment from the Libs before the election that a Liberal win but losing Tones would be the best possible outcome. I suspect not having Palmer in The Senate is also great news.

Where to now ? Well the big money knows it is going to get a very fat bonus. Treasury will be running around trying to square the circle to justify the second trance of proposed tax cuts. We'll see how a ScoMo government deals with the usual suspects - public health, public schools, ABC and welfare.

 

[sptrawler]

OK so people who have cancer don't want to work, and people who do work but have their money eaten up by child care are unworthy recipients of taxpayers money ?

I didn't see any budgetted money for the so called "bludgers" in the Labor policies, just relief for those who need it.

You can get all emotive about it, I'm just saying how the public viewed the tax changes. The primary vote was shot to you know what and it wasn't because they wanted to spend money on cancer or child care, it was how they were getting the money to pay for it.

 

[rederob]

Just my opinion

I prefer data.
I don't have any... yet.
However, my thesis is very different to yours and I am happy to wait and see if it pans out.

 

[SirRumpole]

You can get all emotive about it, I'm just saying how the public viewed the tax changes. The primary vote was shot to you know what and it wasn't because they wanted to spend money on cancer or child care, it was how they were getting the money to pay for it.

The workers would have got a tax cut either way. I think there must be more to it.

The general situation around coal mining seems to have hit Labor hard in relation to jobs in areas where mining is an issue eg Qld and the Hunter Valley. Maybe Labor need to rethink their policy regarding emissions and do it in a less invasive way.

 

[PZ99]

Well that was a surprise... Certainly makes ScoMo look like The Messiah.

It was interesting to hear comment from the Libs before the election that a Liberal win but losing Tones would be the best possible outcome. I suspect not having Palmer in The Senate is also great news.

We can thank Malcolm Turnbull and his reformed senate vote rules for that.

 

[sptrawler]

The workers would have got a tax cut either way. I think there must be more to it.

The general situation around coal mining seems to have hit Labor hard in relation to jobs in areas where mining is an issue eg Qld and the Hunter Valley. Maybe Labor need to rethink their policy regarding emissions and do it in a less invasive way.

I think if they had put a progressive component, or a step component in their policies, they would have fared much better.
The only guy I know that voted Labor, is the only really rich guy I know and he sees himself as a miniature philanthropist, while he sits in his million dollar mansion on the river.

 

[PZ99]

I think if they had put a progressive component, or a step component in their policies, they would have fared much better.
The only guy I know that voted Labor, is the only really rich guy I know and he sees himself as a miniature philanthropist, while he sits in his million dollar mansion on the river.

Yesterday I spoke to colleagues at work (both jobs) and most had voted Labor. When asked why Labor didn't win, all pointed the finger at Shorten saying he was full of last nights' dinner.

Well all but one - my union delegate - he was against the franking and NG changes

 

[sptrawler]

Yesterday I spoke to colleagues at work (both jobs) and most had voted Labor. When asked why Labor didn't win, all pointed the finger at Shorten saying he was full of last nights' dinner.

Well all but one - my union delegate - he was against the franking and NG changes

Well you're probably in one of the mega paid IT jobs.
Or work in Canberra.

 

[PZ99]

Well you're probably in one of the mega paid IT jobs.

Factory work actually. You know - heavy lifting? Forklift driving? Mans' work?

No wimmin, no water can... LOL

 

[chiff]

The two main things I do not like are-no federal ICAC(not that labor were for it either) and people like Barnaby Joyce and Angus will get away with their rorting,self interest etc with regard to the MDB.

 

[sptrawler]

The workers would have got a tax cut either way. I think there must be more to it.

Just my opinion, but the problem was IMO, it came across that everyone that wasn't on some form of welfare, was put into the same basket and called rich.
Like I said, just my opinion, it will be interesting when the demographics of the vote come out.

 

[SirRumpole]

Just my opinion, but the problem was IMO, it came across that everyone that wasn't on some form of welfare, was put into the same basket and called rich.
Like I said, just my opinion, it will be interesting when the demographics of the vote come out.

It has to be a slap in the face for the climate changers with the Greens only marginally improving their vote.

 

[sptrawler]

It has to be a slap in the face for the climate changers with the Greens only marginally improving their vote.

Yes I think the fallout will be far reaching, I think a lot of issues are perceived differently, due to the representation by T.V personalities.
The channels are full of presenters telling everyone how it is and how it should be, when in reality the younger are on social media talking to each other and deciding for themselves.
The T.V presenters, with the money they are on, really are only reflective of what the chardonnay set think. IMO
I think the World is changing and the media is no longer reflective of the general mood of the population, but it makes for an interesting debate, for us old foggies.

 

[sptrawler]

Another thing I found interesting, was a One Nation and a Liberal Party supporter, were stabbed at the polling booths. You don't usually see that sort of behaviour on election day.

 

[Smurf1976]

I didn't see any budgetted money for the so called "bludgers" in the Labor policies, just relief for those who need it.

Apart from a few rednecks, I think it's fair to say that most Australians have no objection to paying taxes in order to provide welfare for those who, for whatever reason, are in difficulty and need assistance. That's the right thing to do both morally and practically and I don't hear many opposing that.

Likewise most seem fine with the idea of equal opportunity for all. Children from poor families should have access to a decent education. Everyone should have access to high quality medical care regardless of their financial circumstances. It's not unreasonable to run public transport at a loss propped up by taxpayers and it's not unreasonable to have things like libraries which also don't make a profit.

What I think people are objecting to though is the notion of equal outcome. Equal opportunity sure, but equal outcome only for those who make equal effort and in practice that won't occur.

If person A works part time and person B works full time plus all available overtime well then yes person B deserves to be wealthier for doing so. Without that incentive then why would they bother?

Likewise if person A spends everything they earn, using Newstart as their fallback and intending to claim the Age Pension at age 67, whilst person B saves and invests such that they never need Newstart or the Pension, well then yes person B should reasonably expect to be better off financially for their efforts.

That Labor seems to want equal outcome as distinct from equal opportunity is the heart of the problem so far as I can tell. Australians support the idea of a fair go and nobody minds that someone who had the misfortune to be disabled or get cancer will cost a lot to look after, nobody's objecting to paying for that, but the idea that persons A and B in my above examples should receive an equal outcome is what most reject as unreasonable.

 

[SirRumpole]

That Labor seems to want equal outcome as distinct from equal opportunity is the heart of the problem so far as I can tell.

I'm not even sure that this was a factor in most peoples minds or how much it actually affected the result, but I agree that most people would rather hang on to their money than have government spend it for them, and that ultimately affects the people you mentioned like the sick and disabled who don't have a chance to work hard and invest for their future. The bottom line is if a government needs to raise revenue you can't get blood out of a stone, ie those with the most end up paying the most, there is little way around that.

Maybe the best tack for Labor is to leave individuals alone and go for corporations, transfer payments, royalty payments etc that reduce their tax payable, and really get serious again about a resource rent tax.

If the great voting public can be persuaded that Gina Reinhart will pay for their next tax cut I think they will go for that no problem.

 

[Smurf1976]

The general situation around coal mining seems to have hit Labor hard in relation to jobs in areas where mining is an issue eg Qld and the Hunter Valley. Maybe Labor need to rethink their policy regarding emissions and do it in a less invasive way.

I've observed rather a lot of these environment versus industry debates over the years and whilst there's probably an exception somewhere, the outcome is always the same.

Lots of words from politicians about all sorts of things to transform the local economy and so on but it always ends up involving an overall decline. You lose, to keep the numbers simple, 1000 jobs in whatever industry and years later there's 500 new jobs at half the pay rate in something else usually tourism. Apart from those who were near retirement anyway, the original 1000 have left the region.

That then comes back to economics. Not many jobs on even $80K, so a normal wage, in low value service industries and pretty much none paying $100K+ and which involve serious professional or trades work.

So I don't think anyone seriously believes it when there's some grand claim that government will do this, that or whatever and everyone will be looked after. Initially perhaps but not for long has been the case thus far.

There's a need to move away from coal yes, nobody would sensibly deny that at this stage, but if I was a miner then I sure wouldn't be trusting government of any persuasion to do it sensibly.

 

[Smurf1976]

Maybe the best tack for Labor is to leave individuals alone and go for corporations, transfer payments, royalty payments etc that reduce their tax payable, and really get serious again about a resource rent tax.

Or go a step further and really stand up for the national interest.

Leverage the nation's mineral wealth for advantage rather than just selling the ore etc.

 

[moXJO]

Someone told Tanya Pleber to sit down in the labor leadership race. Once Gillard and Shorten picked her as a replacement she was instantly marked, well...even more so.

The labor party must be listening hard now. They need to wipe their front bench clean as well.

 

[sptrawler]

Someone told Tanya Pleber to sit down in the labor leadership race. Once Gillard and Shorten picked her as a replacement she was instantly marked, well...even more so.

The labor party must be listening hard now. They need to wipe their front bench clean as well.

They really do need to wipe a lot clean, they have obviously lost complete touch with their voter base. Which honestly is very bad for Australian politics, the last thing the Australian worker needs, is another Malcolm Fraser.
As others have said Labor and or Liberal needs to get serious about chasing the miners for a tax on resources, in a sensible manner, not the back of the napkin crap they put up last time.
They need a sensible well thought out resource tax, that is flexible enough to keep our market advantage, but realistic enough to provide a sensible return for loss of a non renewable resource.
This plan of trying to find any individual who has money, then take it of them to give to someone who hasn't, will only end up with everyone on welfare.
You can't grow an economy, by punishing individual endeavour, all this will do is drive avoidance and reduced effort.
All Labor seems to be concerned with, is the bleed of its base to the Greens, rather than focusing on a vision that reduces the load on the worker.
This then allows the individual to invest, innovate and strive, rather than worrying about who is going to be the next Government, to pick his/her pocket.
My rant for the week.