Australian Federal Election - 2019

[Belli]

Are sure you're not missing the point Belli? Self funded retirees take the pressure off the pension system, just as the privately health insured (probably next on Labor's hit list) take the pressure off the public health system.

Labor/Greens are too blinded by ideology and class envy to comprehend this. The Liberals aren't a whole lot better, capping super balance limits under Kelly O'Dwyer.

All self funded retirees ask for is a fair go, and that the goalposts aren't moved after decades of retirement saving. Which is about the first sensible thing I've heard Z.Steggall say.

I should declare I have a SMSF and investments outside super. Apart from the concessionally taxed arrangements in the SMSF and subject to current personal tax arrangements to avoid double taxation of dividends, I am not on the public teat. Well, I don't consider I am.

From my understanding general superannuation was established to support people in retirement but not to replace the Age Pension. From Paul Keating's July 1991 speech after he resigned as Treasurer:

"based on the aged pension and... augmented by a privately funded and employment related national superannuation scheme fuelled by a fully mature level of contributions"

Such a scheme would maintain the age and service pensions as the foundation of equity and adequacy in retirement income arrangements, but be complemented by the income of private superannuation with the dual systems integrated through to tax and social security systems."

Possibly views have morphed since then.

 

[Toyota Lexcen]

What are the Labor policy's that favor people aged between 20-40?

160B to welfare every year. Save billions from that easy.

Go down to Centrelink and take a look at all the people getting a handout all the while people go to work to pay for their DSP, housing, medication, free transport.

Massive rort.

 

[rederob]

From my understanding general superannuation was established to support people in retirement but not to replace the Age Pension. From Paul Keating's July 1991 speech after he resigned as Treasurer:

Your partial quote was misleading.
Try reading this as a better perspective from Keating himself.

 

[rederob]

What are the Labor policy's that favor people aged between 20-40?
160B to welfare every year. Save billions from that easy.
Go down to Centrelink and take a look at all the people getting a handout all the while people go to work to pay for their DSP, housing, medication, free transport.
Massive rort.

Another ill informed comment from the ranks of those who do not understand the social security system!
Most social security payments are means tested, so they go to the poorest in society and every cent is spent on living costs - not always wisely, but spent nevertheless.
The proposed removal of imputation credits is a taxation arrangement applying to self funded retirees - a relatively wealthy element of the population.

 

[Toyota Lexcen]

Because they won't go and get a job.

What are the policy's that favor 20-40yr old?

 

[Macquack]

I have always thought there should be at least a token tax (1 to 5%) on superannuation earnings in pension mode. It would raise a massive amount of revenue for the government with not much pain.

Superannuation contributions are subsided by the government on the way in, earnings are subsided throughout and then finally the earnings are received tax free plus any company tax paid on earnings are refunded in full. This system has proven to be the biggest tax rort in history for the wealthy.

Joe average with their meager super balances will end up on the pension after the effects of inflation diminish there earnings purchasing power and the government loses out because they end up funding these pensioners and have missed out on a lot of taxation throughout the super scheme life.

The biggest winners in superannuation are the wealthy and those greedy fund managers.

 

[rederob]

Because they won't go and get a job.
What are the policy's that favor 20-40yr old?

This is the tired and testing mantra of imbeciles.
You think that the people who write dozens of application for jobs every week, are listed online for work with various organisations, don't want to work? The unemployment rate is most a factor of job availability. I know this because I worked as a labour economist for several years, and there was no magic pudding that any government could bake to create jobs out of thin air. We regarded about 2% of the population as being "unemployable" for many reasons, and for most it was poor or no meaningful education as causative.
WRT to 20-40 year olds, why not read what the parties propose that will assist?

 

[Toyota Lexcen]

thats not trying to get a job writing an application.

go to sites like gumtree, airtasker, facebook buy & swap sites there are jobs advertised all the time.

the long term bludgers are moved to the disability pension, they live a very comfortable life.

 

[rederob]

thats not trying to get a job writing an application.
go to sites like gumtree, airtasker, facebook buy & swap sites there are jobs advertised all the time.
the long term bludgers are moved to the disability pension, they live a very comfortable life.

If that's the quality of your comments then I will leave you to your ignorance.

 

[Toyota Lexcen]

I was thinking,have I ever voted on self interest.I think that I am being honest when I say no.Franking credits come down the list.Before that come the environment,climate change and decent government.Decent government?If the coalition get in again the National Party will be in charge of the MDB again....more rorting dishonesty etc and pork barrelling their parasitic recipients.My member in Mayo,Centre Alliance candidate Rebekhah Sharkie,says they will block franking credit reforms.Well she would say that , Mayo has the oldest population profile in Australia.The proposed reforms that favour younger people are well over due.I hope that they vote in droves.

i climate change is becoming the best thing ever. Best excuse for price increases.

 

[Toyota Lexcen]

If that's the quality of your comments then I will leave you to your ignorance.

look at all the migrants who came to this country with qualifications that weren't recognised or needed upgrading. They done manual jobs, taxi's, drivers, factory work etc worked hard and have a great life.

good, leave me alone

 

[moXJO]

thats not trying to get a job writing an application.

go to sites like gumtree, airtasker, facebook buy & swap sites there are jobs advertised all the time.

the long term bludgers are moved to the disability pension, they live a very comfortable life.

I agree with this. I grew up in a dole bludger town and the mentality was that they were entitled to government money and did not have to work. That mentality had a huge negative effect on the region for 30+ years. And even today I still know guys in their 40s living in their mums garage happily waking at 1pm and playing xbox.
Long term bludgers breed a community of bludgers mentality.

Personally I think single mums need more $, with a focus on good education for their kids to break the cycle. Not sure how, as the rorts/ problems are endless and creative.

And yes there are those out there that have no chance of a job due to unemployment, location, health.

It's not as bad as the 90s. Dole scams and workerscomp scams were out of control. "Big brother" computing has curbed a lot of that. And in the case of workerscomp, Id say they have gone too far rejecting claims.

 

[Smurf1976]

Both parties really represent the extremes of society now. The Libs under Menzies tried to represent the middle class but have now moved further to the Right, Hawke/Keating did a good job of pragmatic government but Shorten seems to have moved further Left. Personally I would prefer a slightly Left of Centre government as I believe totally free markets and open slather for business to be an ideological failure.

Agreed with your whole post.

The Liberals have substantially abandoned the middle class they used to represent and now represents the big end of town whilst Labor seems to have pretty much forgotten about their traditional support base of the working class, particularly blue collar workers, almost completely and is now the party for those who see welfare as the default not a last resort where all else fails.

I'm still undecided who to vote for, I sure aren't keen on the Liberals and their overall conservatism wanting to cling to the past but this selective taxation from Labor is a deal breaker so far as I'm concerned on account of the unfairness to some which could easily be avoided, whilst retaining the original intent, by the use of a much sharper tool. In both cases the "dumb" approach is being applied.

Over the next few days I'll be looking very closely at the independent and minor party candidates in my electorate with the intent that one of them receives my #1 vote.

I'm not a Greens voter but I'll give credit where it's due in that of the significant parties, and whilst they're minor in numbers they're significant as such, they're the only ones who don't seem to be trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes as to what they're about. That doesn't mean I agree with all their ideas, some yes but not all, but they seem to be being far less deceptive about their policies than the two majors.

 

[IFocus]

Because they won't go and get a job.

What are the policy's that favor 20-40yr old?

Child care, improved TAFE training for starters then benefits from better investment in health care etc.

Thats before the tax cuts that are fully funded unlike the Coalitions.

 

[Toyota Lexcen]

this in the The Age today,

looks like more reviews?

https://www.theage.com.au/federal-e...ds-and-people-on-welfare-20190507-p51kro.html

 

[Smurf1976]

There are two simple solutions.
First, allow self funded retirees to earn a total income at least equal to the pension, before recouping imputation credits.
Second, and the proposal I sent to Bill Shorten, was for retirees that ordinarily do not pay tax, have their imputation credits treated as income and be taxed according to the prevailing tax regime. This effectively means that up to $18200 in imputation credits would not currently be taxed, and allow those on marginal self funded retirement incomes to continue to live modestly without a tax payer funded pension.

You certainly seem to be taking a balanced view in terms of acknowledging that there are problems with the Labor proposal etc.

A major concern in any "compensation" sort of proposal is what defines a retiree.

I'll be politically incorrect and straight to the point and say that for anyone employed on the basis of physical strength or appearance, and there are huge numbers of both, well then the superannuation preservation age (60) is unrealistic and the Age Pension age (67) is silly to the point of farce.

It's politically incorrect to say it but I will. If you're applying for jobs facing the public and aren't reasonably good looking then forget it with rather a lot of employers. There's usually the token older person so it all looks legit but such jobs are overwhelmingly skewed toward younger workers particularly women. For most blue collar work it's much the same, there are exceptions but it's very heavily skewed to those under 50 in practice.

So we have a situation where many in their 50's or in a few cases even 40's find themselves in a situation where either they're self funded involuntary retirees, done completely outside of superannuation, or they're going to spend the next ~15 years on the dole jumping through an endless stream of hoops in order to claim a payment that's barely adequate. It's a not uncommon scenario in practice.

Those who've seen it coming tend to be the people who invest most heavily outside of super and that's motivated by fear far more than any desire to actually be rich. Those people have, of course, already paid more tax by choosing this course of action given they'll be paying tax on the returns from those investments at their marginal rate whilst they're working. Plus they won't be claiming welfare, avoiding that being the primary reason they've invested.

So in any "compensation" arrangement I'd want to see it apply to retirees as such with age not forming part of that definition. If someone's a self-funded retiree at whatever age well then they're a self-funded retiree.

Those in this situation tend to be "off the record" almost completely. Not in employment, not on any form of welfare, not drawing on superannuation, paying a bit of tax but not a lot. They largely don't exist from a statistical perspective, they're not captured in anything which records employment, unemployment, pensioners or those living on superannuation since they're doing none of those. As such they're easily overlooked but personally I know a few so it's a real thing most certainly.

 

[jbocker]

Those in this situation tend to be "off the record" almost completely. Not in employment, not on any form of welfare, not drawing on superannuation, paying a bit of tax but not a lot. They largely don't exist from a statistical perspective, they're not captured in anything which records employment, unemployment, pensioners or those living on superannuation since they're doing none of those. As such they're easily overlooked but personally I know a few so it's a real thing most certainly.

Add me to your list, and I too know several. Well described Smurf, I never really thought about whether I was on any statistical radar, and as such probably largely ignored.

 

[Macquack]

I'll be politically incorrect and straight to the point and say that for anyone employed on the basis of physical strength or appearance, and there are huge numbers of both, well then the superannuation preservation age (60) is unrealistic and the Age Pension age (67) is silly to the point of farce.

Are you saying that half of ASF members are ####ing ugly and weak as piss?

 

[qldfrog]

Are you saying that half of ASF members are ####ing ugly and weak as piss?

Count me in just past 50 do i i real want to carry on in it, learning another trendy it language . i think i am past 20 so far in my career, and be always too expensive vs a Bangalore programmer
So i saved and saved and now i am in pre retirement and obviously do not get a cent from the government, as per all my life here since my arrival as a fully educated and trained migrants..but i am now an enemy in the eyes of Labor, how dare i succeed instead of begging and blaming...
Real lineralism please, leave me alone, make people responsible once educated

 

[SirRumpole]

Count me in just past 50 do i i real want to carry on in it, learning another trendy it language . i think i am past 20 so far in my career, and be always too expensive vs a Bangalore programmer
So i saved and saved and now i am in pre retirement and obviously do not get a cent from the government, as per all my life here since my arrival as a fully educated and trained migrants..but i am now an enemy in the eyes of Labor, how dare i succeed instead of begging and blaming...
Real lineralism please, leave me alone, make people responsible once educated

That's a really good point.

Labor is ignoring a lot of the electorate like self employed tradies, professionals, small business owners and just appealing to low paid workers that are typically union members.

I think their health and education policies are good though, as are their electric car and renewables policies, those gets them over the line for me against the incumbents who have been total failures for 6 years.