The ScoMo Government

[qldfrog]

Nice summary Junior, as a result, Australia will find itself governed by default by labour, who will think itself plebiscited by the election score and the country will go backward another 10y again.
With 15y+ wasted at this stage of world economic changes and radical threads, i believe it will be the last straw.
Argentina and Chile have plenty of land, minerals and livestock production with low population too.
Welcome to the sisterhood of losers by incompetence and ideology

 

[Darc Knight]

Nice summary Junior, as a result, Australia will find itself governed by default by labour, who will think itself plebiscited by the election score and the country will go backward another 10y again.
With 15y+ wasted at this stage of world economic changes and radical threads, i believe it will be the last straw.
Argentina and Chile have plenty of land, minerals and livestock production with low population too.
Welcome to the sisterhood of losers by incompetence and ideology

Nicely argued point Frog, I hope you're wrong.

I think Bill needs to show his economic credentials as does any potential Labor government. Turnbull tried to show his (misdirected) social concience, look where that got him. Hopefully ScoMo can walk that tightrope having learnt from Turnbull's failure.

 

[sptrawler]

Here you go... perfect illustration of Liberal Party definition of a wage "rise"

Tasmanian public sector workers have flagged full-day strikes after rejecting the state government's latest pay and conditions offer.

The Liberal government recently budged from their two-per-cent wage cap, a position they held for months that put them at loggerheads with unions who demanded more.

Their new offer included a 2 per cent increase in the the first year, followed by 2.25 per cent and 2.5 per cent in the two years following.

But unions have rejected the proposal, saying it doesn't keep pace with the cost of living and includes a loss of conditions.

https://www.news.com.au/national/br...r/news-story/18172a5063eb1bac59e02c8683ca499b

Maybe our popular Josh should tell 'em to do it Trump style

Just for a bit of balance:
Here you go... perfect illustration of Labor Party definition of a wage "rise"

W.A public sector workers are complaining about the $1,000 P/A maximum wage increase imposed by the Labor Government in 2017.
https://thewest.com.au/politics/sta...at-1000-by-premier-mark-mcgowan-ng-b88473920z

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/wa-unions-up-in-arms-over-wages-overhaul

The thing is I guess it is only an issue, if it involves the Liberal Party.

 

[PZ99]

Just for a bit of balance:
Here you go... perfect illustration of Labor Party definition of a wage "rise"

W.A public sector workers are complaining about the $1,000 P/A maximum wage increase imposed by the Labor Government in 2017.
https://thewest.com.au/politics/sta...at-1000-by-premier-mark-mcgowan-ng-b88473920z

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/wa-unions-up-in-arms-over-wages-overhaul

The thing is I guess it is only an issue, if it involves the Liberal Party.

How much is that pay rise in terms of percentage?

 

[sptrawler]

How much is that pay rise in terms of percentage?

Well I guess it depends what salary you are on, but back of the napkin, if you are on $100k it is 1%. Doesn't get much easier than that.
Just pointing out that the belief that it is only the Libs, that hit the workers, is nonsense. But it is a widely held belief, that allows Labor to get away with murder.

 

[PZ99]

Well I guess it depends what salary you are on, but back of the napkin, if you are on $100k it is 1%. Doesn't get much easier than that.

It gets even easier if you calculate it on a salary earner on $50K in which case it's 2%

And I know some entry level public sector workers in NSW that get even less than that.

 

[PZ99]

Just pointing out that the belief that it is only the Libs, that hit the workers, is nonsense. But it is a widely held belief, that allows Labor to get away with murder.

The reason Labor get away with murder is because it's the Liberal Party that continually puts itself up as the party with better wage growth policies than Labor which is what Josh Frydenberg has just done but historically the opposite is true.

It's a bit like Labor saying they'll never increase taxes when they usually do.

 

[sptrawler]

The reason Labor get away with murder is because it's the Liberal Party that continually puts itself up as the party with better wage growth policies than Labor which is what Josh Frydenberg has just done but historically the opposite is true.

It's a bit like Labor saying they'll never increase taxes when they usually do.

Again from my perspective, during my working career, it was under Labor that I had both the biggest and smallest pay outcomes.
During Whitlam's reign I received the biggest proportional pay rise, and during Keatings reign I received the largest proportional fall, working in the same trade . So I guess it is all about experience.

 

[PZ99]

Again from my perspective, during my working career, it was under Labor that I had both the biggest and smallest pay outcomes.
During Whitlam's reign I received the biggest proportional pay rise, and during Keatings reign I received the largest proportional fall, working in the same trade . So I guess it is all about experience.

No problem with that. I would say most were better off with Keating than Whitlam though given the horrendous inflation figures of the 70's.

 

[sptrawler]

No problem with that. I would say most were better off with Keating than Whitlam though given the horrendous inflation figures of the 70's.

Actually no, the pay rises were so quick, that inflation lagged somewhat, so everyone was flush for a period of time. The interest rates only hit those who had large loans eg housing, as usual, everyone else had a "beano".
Under Keating, the dollar was floated, which halved it's relativity to the U.S dollar making things bloody expensive and the recession we had to have ensued.
The wages accord, resulted in an actual reduction in real wages of 18%.
Also company tax rates were cut massively, so the companies were doing great and unemployment fell.
So in reality everyone goes on about Keating being magic, well he was he had the union in his pocket and got away with murder.
Why do you think he only got one term?
The working man was screwed over to fix the economy, and funnily enough it is going to happen again. IMO
Living in a land of mushrooms IMO.

 

[PZ99]

Actually no, the pay rises were so quick, that inflation lagged somewhat, so everyone was flush for a period of time. The interest rates only hit those who had large loans eg housing, as usual, everyone else had a "beano".
Under Keating, the dollar was floated, which halved it's relativity to the U.S dollar making things bloody expensive and the recession we had to have ensued.
The wages accord, resulted in an actual reduction in real wages of 18%.
Also company tax rates were cut massively, so the companies were doing great and unemployment fell.
So in reality everyone goes on about Keating being magic, well he was he had the union in his pocket and got away with murder.
Why do you think he only got one term?
The working man was screwed over to fix the economy, and funnily enough it is going to happen again. IMO
Living in a land of mushrooms IMO.

I didn't vote for Keating ever for many reasons not least of which because the recession we had to have was dragged on for years at street level by ALP ineptitude.

The wages accord would have been a better deal for workers had it not been for the Liberal Party opposing every single wage rise under that accord. That's their lexicon I'm afraid.

But yeah, you'll never see me being overly positive about Keating. While it's true some of his reforms have put Australia in a better position overall today his handling of the economy on the day put a lot of people out of work and gave us a Govt debt that's even higher than today's figures as a percentage of GDP. And that's after selling the Witch Bank

 

[sptrawler]

.

The wages accord would have been a better deal for workers had it not been for the Liberal Party opposing every single wage rise under that accord. That's their lexicon I'm afraid.

I may be wrong but from my memory, it had nothing to do with the Liberal Party, the accord agreed between the ACTU and Keating, linked pay rises to CPI, but in reality the rises never matched CPI and wages slid for years under the accord.
It would be nice to link the Libs to it, and the way history is re written these days, no doubt someone will.
Pay rises were automatic and couldn't be argued with, it had nothing to do with votes in parliament, from memory.
I know my work place wanted to call a strike, and were told by the union official that if we did, we would be served with civil actions and no union backing.
I actually put down the Hawke/Keating years, as the biggining of the end for unions, workers became very disenfranchised and disillusioned.

 

[explod]

Keating had no alternative but float the our dollar due to trading economics at that time. Though he had no tertiary qualifications was regarded as one of the best economists around the world.

"Great Treasurers need to be intuitive economic thinkers, to be sure. But they need to be great politicians, too. Keating was both. And that explains how he transformed the Australian economy in a remarkable and lasting fashion. And also why the one other significant economic reform of the last 30 years, the GST, eluded him.

But we should forgive Keating his GST inconsistency. The desire to implement one was driven by his economic genius, and the willingness to denounce it by his political genius. And without both of those things the Australian economy would not have undergone the revolution it did, that benefits us all to this day.

Was he a great Treasurer? That's a bit like asking whether Jack Nicklaus was a great golfer, or Margaret Court or Rod Laver great tennis players. They set the benchmark. They define the term. Of course he was.

Richard Holden is a Professor of Economics at the University of New South Wales, Australian School of Business. View his full profile here."

"
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-20/holden-keating-legacy/5104990

 

[sptrawler]

No one is saying he didn't fix the economy, or he wasn't a good treasurer, I'm saying from a workers point of view he was $hit.
If a Liberal Party was in they would never have gotten away with it, I'm just calling it for what it was, from a workers perspective.
You can put the lipstick on it.

The other thing is, the latest Labor proposals, have Keating's stamp all over it and history will repeat. The workers will wake up, when it sinks in and they will be out again.lol
But alas, the damage will be done, Que sera.

 

[wayneL]

You're right about that.

Malcolm was very popular with the public when he first took office. If his party got behind him on just a few key issues, they would easily have been able to knock off Shorten this year. Appease younger voters on climate change, SSM etc. and appease long term Liberal voters by supporting middle/higher income earners, small business, retirees, in terms of tax policy. Sounds easy but they managed to complete f*** it up with internal bickering and ideological b/s.

Yep they ****ed it up alright. But I think you miscategorize the nature of the bickering.

I think the Liberal party base felt utterly betrayed by Mal and the red tories and that is reflected in both the schism and waning support. FWIW

Mal initially represented moderate conservatism, but finally revealed himself an SJW social democrat.... as I predicted a few years ago.

 

[Darc Knight]

Labor got together with the ACTU and produced The Accord. Libs should get together with the big end of town and get some concessions to aid economic recovery.
Cmon Tony you muppet!

 

[PZ99]

I may be wrong but from my memory, it had nothing to do with the Liberal Party, the accord agreed between the ACTU and Keating, linked pay rises to CPI, but in reality the rises never matched CPI and wages slid for years under the accord.
It would be nice to link the Libs to it, and the way history is re written these days, no doubt someone will.
Pay rises were automatic and couldn't be argued with, it had nothing to do with votes in parliament, from memory.
I know my work place wanted to call a strike, and were told by the union official that if we did, we would be served with civil actions and no union backing.
I actually put down the Hawke/Keating years, as the biggining of the end for unions, workers became very disenfranchised and disillusioned.

That's mostly correct off my memory but the payrises were set by the Arbitration Commission after proposals by the unions, business and the Govt... much like it is today with Fairwork.
Naturally the Liberal Party (particularly Howard) sided with business and were opposed to any rises citing their preferred individual workplace bargaining policies (80's era Workchoices).

That's my memory of it and happy to be corrected.

 

[sptrawler]

That's mostly correct off my memory but the payrises were set by the Arbitration Commission after proposals by the unions, business and the Govt... much like it is today with Fairwork.
Naturally the Liberal Party (particularly Howard) sided with business and were opposed to any rises citing their preferred individual workplace bargaining policies (80's era Workchoices).

That's my memory of it and happy to be corrected.

You might be right, but I thought the only inputs were unions (Kelty), bureau of stats and the Government which was Hawke/Keating.

 

[Knobby22]

Pretty good announcement on immigration policy, winding back Abbott's big rise and encouraging settlement outside the major capitals.

Scomo is doing his best but it feels to me like much of the party isn't interested in helping him.

 

[sptrawler]

Pretty good announcement on immigration policy, winding back Abbott's big rise and encouraging settlement outside the major capitals.

Scomo is doing his best but it feels to me like much of the party isn't interested in helping him.

I think the election is a foregone conclusion and most pollies are getting ready for the exit.