Is there a GOD?

AnalysisParalysis said:

The Bible tells us of a worldwide flood, where God destroyed everything on the planet, save Noah and his family, and the animals he had on board.

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If this is true, it means everyone on this planet is related and there has been a bit of interbreeding going on . lol could explain a few things about todays world .
Noah and his family must have been good breeders thats all I can say.

Disclaimer: Please do not take this seriously.

nomore4s said:

If this is true, it means everyone on this planet is related and there has been a bit of interbreeding going on . lol could explain a few things about todays world .
Noah and his family must have been good breeders thats all I can say.

Disclaimer: Please do not take this seriously.

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Actually, this something that evolutionists and creationists can agree on, that all humanity has descended from one single pair (backed by DNA evidence apparently)

wayneL said:

Actually, this something that evolutionists and creationists can agree on, that all humanity has descended from one single pair (backed by DNA evidence apparently)

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lol, Well there you go we are all interbred. They were obivously very good breeders.

nomore4s said:

lol, Well there you go we are all interbred. They were obivously very good breeders.

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Humanity must have originally started somewhere in the Appalachians then

wayneL said:

...has descended from one single pair (backed by DNA evidence apparently)

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And it wasn't the apple on the tree that was the problem - it was the pear in the bushes.!

interbreeding ? ahh Incest - a game the whole family can enjoy .
Everythings relative as they say - In fact where I come from everyone's a relative as well. Go to family reunions to pick up chicks, lol

Thought for the day ... We must respect another fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart. :1 one cent

Thought for the day after tomorrow week tuesday : It is conceivable that religion may be morally useful without being intellectually sustainable. John Stuart Mill 1806-1873. (MD, PhD, DSO, VC+bar, OAM, ASX, MABC, DNA, KBE)

2020hindsight said:

And it wasn't the apple on the tree that was the problem - it was the pear in the bushes.!

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Sans fig leaves I imagine.

God? Y/N
got it going ? Y/N
could care less where it ends up? Y/N

jumps tall buildings in a single bound? Y/N
needs a short run up to jump tall buildings? Y/N
Jumps your average 2 story duplex with the help of a pogo stick? Y/N
Once crawled over a small fence with the help of a leg-up from his mate Bhuddha ? Y/N

Faster than a speeding bullet? Y/N
about as fast as you'd expect for an old codger running? Y/N
has a sense of humour? Y/N

Listens in on all earthly conversations? Y/N
simultaneously? Y/N
needs the help of several translators rostered on to assist? Y/N
Listens in to 2GB and 2CH and 2UE and 2BL concurrently? Y/N
And is an especially big fan of Media Watch? Y/N
Knows all human thoughts? Y/N
Knows all ape thoughts? Y/N
Never forgets a single thing? Y/N
Has strict policy of not bowing to request for a remark of that final examination paper - you get 51 you're in , you get 49 you're out - judge's decision is final, and no discussion will be entered into ,
And I'm sorry Mr Mcenroe, but you and I both know that that ball really was out, don't we !, etc

AnalysisParalysis said:

Yes, I'm pulling most of this from a website.

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I thought you were pulling it from your ......

Rough_Trade said:

You have given a valid scientific theory on how the Grand Canyon could have been formed.
I thought you were trying to prove that god does exist.

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Flood happened = Bible true = God exists.

A few have commented on religion as being 'a prop' etc, but i'd like to suggest that being a Christian (i'm not meaning someone who calls themselves a christian because they go to church on easter and christmas, but someone who is a christ follower) is the total opposite of a prop...

True knowing that there is a God can bring comfort and hope, but to follow the teachings of Jesus, takes a lot of courage and guts in a world that as I can see, has no interest in God.

It takes courage and strength to turn away from sin and walk God's way. It takes courage and strength to stand up against the peer pressures. It takes courage for the person on the job to take a stand against low humor, pornography, indecency and bad language.

It takes courage to 'have faith' and trust in a God that you may not be able to pyhsically see, it takes courage to 'turn the other cheek', 'walk the extra mile',

Anyway, my point is, being a christian is not all a nice happy life, just look at the life of jesus and a lot of the other early christians in the Bible, who lived under persecution, or the many thousands of christians in countries such as china, north korea, india etc, who face imprisonment, torture and death because of their faith in a God that does exist...

weird said:

Hi AnalysisParalysis,

As also a Christian, I am sorry to say that I do not completely believe the stories of ‘creation’ as told in the ‘old testament’ as necessarily literally accurate.

Genesis is an interesting book. My priest actually pointed this out to me, creation is actually told twice ... as I believe there were two popular accounts at the time, and as a result they were simply placed one after the other in the book. My thoughts are more inline with Collins' (the scientist I mentioned earlier).

The Catholic stance on ‘creation’ is quite abit more liberal compared to the more fundamentalists ...

http://www.catholic.com/library/Creation_and_Genesis.asp



Ones interpretation of how creation is told in Genesis, as told as two different stories ... should not have any bearing or influence on one’s belief in the actual existence of a God.

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That's interesting, I did read it. Then I found this.

It makes no sense of Exodus 20:9–11.

‘Six days you shall labor and do all your work.

‘But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. You shall not do any work …

‘For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.’

The six days of creation and day of rest are exactly the same as those of the command to work six ordinary days and rest on the seventh. The passage is certainly not teaching an eternal weekend.

AJ_ said:

It takes courage and strength to stand up against the peer pressures. It takes courage for the person on the job to take a stand against low humor, pornography, indecency and bad language.

It takes courage to 'have faith' and trust in a God that you may not be able to pyhsically see, it takes courage to 'turn the other cheek', 'walk the extra mile',

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Are you stating this can only be achieved by following god?

Another thing that has me confused is how far will man/woman get before before something is done about the destruction. We are born into this life and deal with what is happening the best (or worst) way we know how.From our parents and teachers and the undesirables we learn how to get through life but I`ll be hanged,drawn and quartered if they taught me how to care for the planet.
Island life taught me about recycling and not to waste food and water(or you get fed to the sharks).We get born,go to school ( I wish I was a kid forever)get taught how to wead & wight then off to work we trot.We go to work `cause ya needs the money son.Wiff da money you buy da food,wiff da money you buy da clothes and wiff da money you buy da house.So pack ya bags and pee off. And good luck.
25 years (good luck,bad luck.. who knows) later, after more slips,trips,falls,mistakes,babies,fights,drinks,crashes,pain,joy,happiness,laughs,contentment.... (the big picture ..not a pixel) I see that the same system still exists. Is there no other way?

It and strength takes courage to turn away from sin and walk God's way. It takes courage and strength to stand up against the peer pressures. It takes courage for the person on the job to take a stand against low humor, pornography, indecency and bad language.

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AJ Hi,every single human being on this earth sins every day.I have many examples if anyone doubts this.You cannot be human and not sin.Investing in shares is one to begin with.

What I wish to know is the numbers of new members who have signed up in the last week that voted ?

Did they increase the numbers up top


Bobby

Someone asked 'Which God are we talking about?'

Which is a fair enough question, given that there are thousands of them, even between the monotheists.

If it's the Christian God, allow me to add a layer to my previous post: the Resurrection and the Virgin Birth, and an awful lot of miraculous New Testament stuff, was added to Christian scripture early in the fourth century when the Roman Empire took over the Church. (The Church version is that the Emperor Constantine was converted.)

There was no belief as to Jesus' resurrection before then - e.g. by the surviving apostles, in the years after his death - at least not according to the earliest Christian documents.

Mousie, I don't understand your first paragraph, but below that you said:

"...has anyone noticed how, if God does not exist since the beginning of time, we keep on debating these kinda things month after month, year after year, decade after decade, centuries after centuries, even millenia after millenia? Interesting, ain't it?"

I think that just underlines my point about our religious hard wiring. It goes back millennia (the singular is 'millennium' BTW), and will no doubt be around for as long as we're here (about another 50 years or so, the way global warming is going). It doesn't say anything about the existence of God, just about our proclivity to believe.

The creation of the Universe by the Big Bang is not faith-based, it's the hypothesis for which we have by far the most evidence. Do some reading in the physics field and you will see what I mean.

You asked me to explain more clearly how organic life arose spontaneously. I could try - but I'm not an organic chemist, so I would refer you to the works of Richard Dawkins, who describes the original process of the creation of life - and outlines the voluminous evidence for it - in several thick books, such as 'The Selfish Gene'.


"We don't need religion to survive." (Etc.)

I think you're confusing your atheist friend's survival with 'survival' of our species in the evolutionary sense. You really have to do some reading on evolution - it's how you got here after all - so we can discuss this with a bit of common ground.

Basically, religion gave us meaning and bound communities together, and provided moral codes, which helped Homo Sapiens hunting bands to survive bleak winters, sabre-toothed tigers, each other, etc.


It's true that the scientific findings on the brain don't refute the existence of God. But they do refute the claim that 'divine' experiences are proof of God.


"The entire nature points out God's existence to me, deafeningly loud and clear, even in the silence of the fields."

I had that same feeling for many years. Sadly, I have been cured by education. I am adapted by evolution to feel that way. I am also adapted by evolution to love my children more than yours. That doesn't objectively prove that my children are better (or more loveable) than yours. It merely proves that the impulse is there in me.

Mousie you stated several times over that God exists - without offering any evidence as yet.

I've presented my evidence. Now it's your turn.

SEVEN DAYS TO MAKE IT, SEVEN DAYS TO BREAK IT.

On Monday I woke to a world of “green”
And I walked in a forest grand,
And the trees were as tall as I’d ever seen,
So I felled the whole lot with one hand;

On Tuesday I thought about CO2,
But the weather was too damned hot,
So I sat in my airconditioned zoo,
And I revved ‘em for all that they’ve got;

On Wednesday I looked at my acres of dust,
and my bores and my roots and my toil,
But I must've screwed up cos a salty crust
was killing my rooted soil.

On Thursday I drove in my 5 litre bus,
Cos there’s plenty of oil!! – it’s my turn !!
And the birds can get plastered with thick black pus,
And so what if the oilwells burn;

On Friday I didn’t recycle because
I treated it all as a joke…….
And on Saturday, Hell, the wheels fell off,
And on Sunday ……it went up in smoke.

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PS I read about a letter some bloke found in amongst the Dead Sea scrolls - now in a museum in Israel or Turkey or somewhere,..
"Dear God, I know you told me to get two of each and every animal and bird and frog and insect and stuff, but, gee, I wish you'd given me a bit more notice. For instance those kangaroos - sheesh, did the missus and I have trouble catching two of those. Finding a Tasmanian Tiger proved a bit difficult as well, but our perseverence paid off. Then the Siberian Tiger refused to settle down, kept picking a fight with the American Mountain Lion, mumbling something about politics or the Cuban crisis or something. Fortunately winds around the Horn were favourable, and only about 40 metre seas, so dead simple really, once we strapped the elephants in nice and snug, having worked out which end was their tail. Sorry the parchment is a bit stained, but we took a big wave over the bow the other day and everything got soaked - including the Tucan and the Kiwi and the Emu and the 34,041 other species on board. The Albatrosses took off as soon as we caught them, - just scarpered - just refused to accept my argument that they'd regret it - they reckon that I didn't know what I was talking about !! Not sure if I got all the animals, but I got as many as I could in the couple of weeks available - If you're going to send down another flood, maybe give me a shopping list. Thanks. N."

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=88165&highlight=inmates#post88165

...... Take a slab of sleeping grizzly, take some bullhorns large,
Teach me when to hibernate, teach me when to charge;
-Teach me horse’s flowing manes,
-Over fields where freedom reigns,
-Teach me Clydesdale’s willing chains,
Pulling on a barge.

Teach me porpoise sense of humour, leaping sunlight beams,
Teach me antlike industry to play my part in teams;
-Teach me canine gratitude,
-Cute koala attitude
-Longitude and latitude of
Gum-tip flavoured dreams.

As my education blossoms, teach me ways of dove,
Teach me truth and honesty as seen from up above;
-Teach me to out-fox the beagle,
-Teach me to out-dove the eagle,
-Teach me gentle, teach me regal,
Teach me how to love.

Let me learn to sing with whales, echo-friendly bark,
Teach me twenty thousand tales of inmates of the Ark;
-Let me learn to know them better,
-Whether whale or Irish setter,
- Make “EXTINCT” a silent letter-
Then I’ll disembark.

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Robroy said:

the Resurrection and the Virgin Birth, and an awful lot of miraculous New Testament stuff, was added to Christian scripture early in the fourth century when the Roman Empire took over the Church. (The Church version is that the Emperor Constantine was converted.) There was no belief as to Jesus' resurrection before then - e.g. by the surviving apostles, in the years after his death - at least not according to the earliest Christian documents.

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Wow, that's interesting, and would obviously be very controversial - Is this covered in any of those references you mention, Rob.?

Wysiwyg said:

Another thing that has me confused is how far will man/woman get before before something is done about the destruction .We are born into this life and deal with what is happening the best (or worst) way we know how.From our parents and teachers and the undesirables we learn how to get through life but I`ll be hanged,drawn and quartered if they taught me how to care for the planet.
Island life taught me about recycling and not to waste food and water(or you get fed to the sharks).We get born,go to school ( I wish I was a kid forever)get taught how to wead & wight then off to work we trot.We go to work `cause ya needs the money son.Wiff da money you buy da food,wiff da money you buy da clothes and wiff da money you buy da house.So pack ya bags and pee off. And good luck.
25 years (good luck,bad luck.. who knows) later , after more slips,trips,falls,mistakes,babies,fights,drinks,crashes,pain,joy,happiness,laughs,contentment.... (the big picture ..not a pixel) I see that the same system still exists. Is there no other way?

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Lol - funny dude. lovely summary of life mate As for the destruction bit - man is hopeless - and many would also say now beyond hope .
(PS I suspect God's plan was that we spend at least as much time thinking about THIS planet as we do thinking about the next one, whereever he has that parked. Maybe exercise that grey matter between our bludy ears - for the (unselfish) good of all - maybe that's what he figured we'd be able to do. - sadly he seems to have been overly optimistic on that score - some might say he screwed up even. : 2twocents)

Father to teenage son:- "So pack da bags and pee off, now while you know everything.."

Robroy said:

Someone asked 'Which God are we talking about?'

If it's the Christian God, allow me to add a layer to my previous post: the Resurrection and the Virgin Birth, and an awful lot of miraculous New Testament stuff, was added to Christian scripture early in the fourth century when the Roman Empire took over the Church. (The Church version is that the Emperor Constantine was converted.)

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Virgin_Mary

And as a starting reply to debunking the 'Da Vinci code' ...

"By the time of the Council of Nicea in 325, Christians were already in broad agreement about which books were genuine and ought to be read as holy scripture in the churches. There was never really any doubt that the books called Matthew, Mark , Luke and John, contained the true account of Jesus.
- Source: Is it Worth Believing ? Greg Clarke.

Robroy said:

Someone asked 'Which God are we talking about?'

I had that same feeling for many years. Sadly, I have been cured by education. I am adapted by evolution to feel that way. I am also adapted by evolution to love my children more than yours. That doesn't objectively prove that my children are better (or more loveable) than yours. It merely proves that the impulse is there in me.

Mousie you stated several times over that God exists - without offering any evidence as yet.

I've presented my evidence. Now it's your turn.

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My issue with this argument is that with science we can analyse and present evidence simply because we have a theory and we prove it. Eg, earth is flat, sun revolves around the earth, AIDS is a homosexual disease: long before we have the foresight to question these things, these fallacies are as much a part of the human consciousness/belief system as the suppositions we now hold dear.

That is, with time, the human race has discovered certain things we believe to be incontrovertible truths. But our endeavours, our discoveries are boxed within the framework of human understanding and rationality and seem to be limited to linear time. Such as DNA - the human body has always been there, but 17th century doctors no more conceived this than a means of sending digital data down a thin, flexible glass pipe at light speed.

If a=b+c, then c=a-b, right?

My take on it is YES, FOR NOW.

If you take it there is a GOD, then no theorem can hope to define something that is completely immeasurable.

And if you have proven that "c" does that mean there is not a "d(c)" somewhere around the corner. People of faith hold to a theory that does not really change - That art Thou (or a similar construct) - forever and a day. Science holds to laws that are much more mutable and one-day we may discover yet more about the universe we spin around in.

For now, we cannot rationalise the irrational - some people can live with faith, others need logic. The melding of the two is not sensible. The proving of one thing does not disprove the other. For many, even the evidence of no god, is of God, since everything is God.

Robroy said:

I had that same feeling for many years. Sadly, I have been cured by education.

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just picking up on this one sentence of your excellent post Rob, (among many other excellent posts).
"We do not have the same sense of awe and reverence when we see a rainbow as does a primitive native, simply because we understand what causes it. We have lost as much as we have gained in delving into the matter."

We've lost sure, and that's sad - but then again, we have to
a) face the reality of light refracting in spherical droplets, and
b) if we want to remain a romantic, somehow love the concept and enjoy and enthuse in the beauty nonetheless