Worst drought ever

[noirua]

A very great man indeed was Professor Peter Cullen and with Australia's population adding 330,000 people every year there will be a need for many more desalination plants. He wouldn't take any notice of comments on health problems, so they say, and we've lost him at a time of great need.

 

[Prospector]

I just hope that Nick (X) really manages to save Adelaide and South Australia. Ventured out for a drive today (well, it was ONLY 35 at the time) and trees are dying - 50 year old trees are dead or dying. The leaves are all shrivelled and limbs are falling off. There is no green grass. Everything is crispy, there is dust everywhere, and even if we get rain, things cant come back. Trees are gone forever. In a capital city - it is like Australia has forgotten us. That is what saddens me the most.

Guys, please do something in your state to make people realise this is not about politics or state boundaries anymore. In order to grow rice and cotton, we are sacrificing South Australia. It is really, really desperate here.

And how stupid is our water minister - yesterday there was an article in the paper saying we must prepare now for a flood plan! WTF! We dont have a plan for the drought that is happening now, and she wants us to prepare for a flood! I am so angry!

Peter Cullen - he was our Thinker in Residence and he prepared a plan to waterproof Adelaide. None of his recommendations have ever been put into place. Maybe that contributed to his death. RIP Peter.

 

[prawn_86]

Our water Minister Karlene Maywald has lost all respect.

This has been going on for YEARS and yet the politicians are still 'planning'. In other words they cant be bothered actually doing anything so they wont.

My father is spending savings to keep fruit trees alive, because if they die, its 6 - 8 yrs for new ones to crop again. That is his personal choice, but there is no compensation for the 75% of the water allocation that has been cut. yet we get some stupid horse flu and instantly that industry gets compo. What a load of sh1te.

Weirs in certain areas would have helped, political action at a Federal level would have helped, foresight would have helped.

There is not one politician who i respect or who i believe is in it for anymore than their pay, especially once they realise that the system prevents them from achieving anything

 

[Prospector]

Our water Minister Karlene Maywald has lost all respect.

This has been going on for YEARS and yet the politicians are still 'planning'. In other words they cant be bothered actually doing anything so they wont.

My father is spending savings to keep fruit trees alive, because if they die, its 6 - 8 yrs for new ones to crop again. That is his personal choice, but there is no compensation for the 75% of the water allocation that has been cut. yet we get some stupid horse flu and instantly that industry gets compo. What a load of sh1te.

Weirs in certain areas would have helped, political action at a Federal level would have helped, foresight would have helped.

There is not one politician who i respect or who i believe is in it for anymore than their pay, especially once they realise that the system prevents them from achieving anything

Prawn, your story is being replicated everywhere, sadly. I think Karlene has been totally left out to hang by Good News Mike. Where is he anyway? he just seems to have vanished, as Foley is acting, AGAIN!

Weirs - well, that would totally kill the Coorong so on that we disagree.

The only thing this government is doing is praying for rain, as if that will solve their problems. It is way, way bigger than that.

Sadly, on this topic every South Australian would agree with you. I would love to be involved in a Rally - I think we would get as many as marched in the demo against the war in Iraq - in the hundreds of thousands. What do you think?

 

[prawn_86]

Yeh im kind of divided on weirs too. My father wants them, but then those belwo the weir would be worse of, so its a catch 22 IMO.

The problem is, and always will be, the fact that farmers/growers are too independent. In their jo they make the decisons for themselves and are their own boss. There is no one who would 'unite' them as such, or at least not enough to get a critical mass.

Same when it comes to pricing. Agents and wineries etc etc can always screw the farmer, because they are too independent and do not get together to collaborate and say "we wont sell below X". Even if this did happen then someone would always undercut them.

As much as a rally is a good idea P, I am enough of a realist to know it wont happen.

My father is just lucky enough to be debt free, and not rely on growing as his sole income source.

 

[noirua]

I just hope that Nick (X) really manages to save Adelaide and South Australia. Ventured out for a drive today (well, it was ONLY 35 at the time) and trees are dying - 50 year old trees are dead or dying. The leaves are all shrivelled and limbs are falling off. There is no green grass. Everything is crispy, there is dust everywhere, and even if we get rain, things cant come back. Trees are gone forever. In a capital city - it is like Australia has forgotten us. That is what saddens me the most.

Guys, please do something in your state to make people realise this is not about politics or state boundaries anymore. In order to grow rice and cotton, we are sacrificing South Australia. It is really, really desperate here.

And how stupid is our water minister - yesterday there was an article in the paper saying we must prepare now for a flood plan! WTF! We dont have a plan for the drought that is happening now, and she wants us to prepare for a flood! I am so angry!

Peter Cullen - he was our Thinker in Residence and he prepared a plan to waterproof Adelaide. None of his recommendations have ever been put into place. Maybe that contributed to his death. RIP Peter.

Hi Prospector, Sometime in the future when SA is able to mine all that sub-bitumous coal and low grade iron ore, thats there in abundance, more notice will be taken. Unfortunately the SA Government has been slow to fully back some projects, so fault lies with them as well.

The rail extension from Alice Springs to Darwin should make a difference. However, most of the investor money is in NSW and SA is seen as State that can be forgotten. Only some speculative cash is going into a lot of small explorers at present.

Best thing to do is march on Canberra with banners flying and banging drums. Throw a tomato or two at the P.M. - a direct hit brings publicity.

 

[Prospector]

Hi Prospector, Sometime in the future when SA is able to mine all that sub-bitumous coal and low grade iron ore, thats there in abundance, more notice will be taken. .

Too late noirua, or maybe that is their plan; make us into a mining town and all that implies.

Unfortunately the SA Government has been slow to fully back some projects, so fault lies with them as well..

Yes, everyone in SA agrees with that too; on the other hand, we have no control over what is allowed to flow down the Murray and that is what is hurting the farmers and the Coorong. We could have ensured that Adelaide was protected from the drought, but not the rest.

The rail extension from Alice Springs to Darwin should make a difference. .

Hasnt made any improvement at all, and I gather there are issues with the rail link and people have gone back to using trucks! Too much damage occuring along the route!

And it is a pleasant 38 degrees as I type.

 

[Smurf1976]

I just hope that Nick (X) really manages to save Adelaide and South Australia. Ventured out for a drive today (well, it was ONLY 35 at the time) and trees are dying - 50 year old trees are dead or dying. The leaves are all shrivelled and limbs are falling off. There is no green grass. Everything is crispy, there is dust everywhere, and even if we get rain, things cant come back. Trees are gone forever. In a capital city - it is like Australia has forgotten us. That is what saddens me the most.

Guys, please do something in your state to make people realise this is not about politics or state boundaries anymore. In order to grow rice and cotton, we are sacrificing South Australia. It is really, really desperate here.

No offence intended to anyone here, but I think we do have a real problem in Australia when it comes to the smaller states, particularly SA and Tas.

SA has the water problem that is almost entirely due to what happens in the other states. Everyone argues about this, that or something else in Qld and NSW while SA doesn't get a mention.

And a great many Tasmanians have had more than enough of NSW and Vic meddling. If we hadn't fought and thankfully won we'd literally be in the dark right now. And don't even mention the word "compensation" because the reality is that despite what may be promised, the money never really comes.

Only reason WA isn't in the same situation is they have the mining boom propping up the flagging economies of NSW and Vic and thus can tell them where to go.

As I said, no offence intended. But this is one country and it's time we ALL started thinking accordingly. SA has as much right to water as anyone else. Tasmania has as much right to economic development without relying on handouts as anyone else.

And of course Qld, NSW and Vic have as much obligation to at least cut their CO2 to SA or Tas levels per head of population - but no doubt we'll be paying for it down here more than they do in Sydney or Melbourne (indeed we already are...).

Australia. It's one country not seven.

 

[Smurf1976]

As much as a rally is a good idea P, I am enough of a realist to know it wont happen.

Not hard to organise a rally as long as there is a genuine desire to have one. If there isn't then the farmers etc have only themselves to blame.

 

[Prospector]

No offence intended to anyone here, but I think we do have a real problem in Australia when it comes to the smaller states, particularly SA and Tas.

SA has the water problem that is almost entirely due to what happens in the other states. Everyone argues about this, that or something else in Qld and NSW while SA doesn't get a mention.

Australia. It's one country not seven.

Yes, yes and yes.

Well, the rally against the Iraq war was very successful. I think people here are really ripe, after these last 2 weeks and the damage that has been caused, to shout, loud and clear. We have no choice really, if we dont have water, we have nothing.

 

[Smurf1976]

I think people here are really ripe, after these last 2 weeks and the damage that has been caused.

Just wondering if you could elaborate on how bad it is? I mean, are you saying that there's basically no trees etc left in SA that aren't dead or dying because of the lack of water? I know it's bad but I'm starting to think that it might be a lot worse than anyone outside SA realises?

 

[Prospector]

Well, it is anecdotal of course, but for some examples - in our backyard, we have lost four trees that we had nurtured for the last four years. In front of our house, the tree in the street has died - the Council will have to come and remove it. Our neighbour across the road said today that his golden elm in his front yard had died and he would need to cut it down. Most houses do not have a lawn anymore, maybe that will come back.

We have an avenue of plane trees that lead into the city; I heard on the radio today that they were in the process of dying. There are anecdotal stories everywhere of friends relatives etc who have lost fruit trees, eucalytpus etc etc. Another man said his son was driving in his brand new $150k HiAce (?) truck on a country road and a gum tree just fell on the truck (son was injured but alive) and also caused $20k damage. The trees in the street are not supposed to be watered. Not even the Councils will do it.

And that is just in the city! The citrus farmers further up the river have left their trees to die and are being pulled out; I think there are only 2 dairy farmers left on the lower river Murray; and they are at risk because they cant reach the (now salty) River water. The others have sold their herds and left. These people supply our milk!!!

It had been hard going until the last 14 days, but now, well, people are either giving up, or openly flouting the rules.

Today I heard that a woman with a permit (she is disabled and can water a little more frequently than we can) had been fined $325 because during her permitted watering times, she had dared to try to save the tree in front of her house (but not on her property). Someone walking past had dobbed her in. That is the level we have stopped to now - it is eating into our psyche! But this woman said she would continue to keep watering as the tree was a 'significant one' and she would not let it die.

And all the while the government indulges in talk fests!

 

[Smurf1976]

Wow. I knew it was bad but I didn't think it was that bad in SA. I suspect most outside the state don't realise it's like that either. Are those plane trees you mention the ones on the way to the airport?

Is the water quality still reasonable for drinking etc or has quality declined along with quantity?

 

[Prospector]

I suspect most outside the state don't realise it's like that either. Are those plane trees you mention the ones on the way to the airport?

Yes, those trees were talked about too Smurf, and they mentioned Bradman Drive (the road you are talking about) but my dried up brain cant remember what was said! But it wasnt good, so they are obviously at risk.

We still do have trees, we havent been totally felled of course, but arborists are saying that it wont be for another few months that we can see just how much damage has been caused (unless the tree is already dead!) and trees just die over a period of time.

Is it cooler down your way today? Our cool change lasted a couple of hours - temperature back up again, whereas I think in Vic and Tassie it stayed down for a while. And that has been the pattern of the last 2 weeks.

Our water was pumped from the Murray before this summer; which is why we are in debt to the River system; as is every other state in Australia but for some reason we have to pay back the water we need to DRINK while other states can use it recklessly in open drains to irrigate rice in the Hay Plains. Have you seen the Hay Plains? What used to be arid land is as green as - for irrigating rice! Arent we clever! Wonder what the history books will say - we were able to irrigate the desert, and there used to be a quaint little town called Adelaide which dried up because there wasnt any water!

 

[prawn_86]

I have an Uncle who lives in Blanchetown, which is where Lock 1 is.

The lockmaster has told him that the depth of the river below the Lock is 40cm. This is because water is being held back to 'store' it.

If it were not for mud, you would be able to stroll right across the Murray. Another year like this and the Murray will once again be a heap of puddles like it was 150 years ago during the droughts BEFORE the locks...

 

[chops_a_must]

In a capital city - it is like Australia has forgotten us. That is what saddens me the most.

Guys, please do something in your state to make people realise this is not about politics or state boundaries anymore. In order to grow rice and cotton, we are sacrificing South Australia. It is really, really desperate here.

And what is the benefit of saving South Australia? It's just a dole bludger in a welfare state.

No offence intended to anyone here, but I think we do have a real problem in Australia when it comes to the smaller states, particularly SA and Tas.

Only reason WA isn't in the same situation is they have the mining boom propping up the flagging economies of NSW and Vic and thus can tell them where to go.

For someone so intelligent Smurf, I have to say, that is complete and utter bollocks.

Water policy planning has been a matter of course in WA since the early 90s. All our current water policy projects, have, and seem to continue to have, bipartisan support. Our first desal plant was planned in the late 90s, very early 00s, well well before any "mining boom" FFS! And crossed party lines.

But the fact we are so removed from the rest of Australia, our needs are so ignored, we have an attitude of just doing it ourselves, without expecting to be babied. It's something the other smaller states can learn from. We haven't received any federal funding for any of our water initiatives. And it cracks me up, and annoys the hell out of me at the same time, that TAS and SA always expect outside help.

You have people like Twiggy Forest saying that they wont be able to have workers for mining on their projects, because the federal government turns it into a negative return for the state when it comes to the infrastructure costs.

That's money going in particular to TAS and SA. So why is a state that has done everything right for the last 15 years, across parties, being punished for doing things correctly? What incentive is there for WA to develop the NW, when it turns into a negative return, because of you guys?

I'm just so sick of hearing all this emo rubbish from eastern staters about the water issue.

WA is one of the driest areas on earth. We don't have a water problem. Why not? Because of long term internal planning and independent action.

If the eastern states were people, they would be getting told to grow up, do something about it, or stop your bitching. Because it is getting tiring.

 

[Prospector]

And what is the benefit of saving South Australia? It's just a dole bludger in a welfare state..

You say this, and then expect anyone to give the rest of your post any cred?

For someone so intelligent Smurf, I have to say, that is complete and utter bollocks...

Ditto, like you would even know what happens in Tasmania?

And it cracks me up, and annoys the hell out of me at the same time, that TAS and SA always expect outside help....

We have already agreed that each state parliament has been especially negligent in this. There is nothing that could have been done to save the Murray once the water is dammned and removed upstream. A geography lesson - the River Murray has its antecedents in the Darling Murray Basin which extends from Queensland, but more closely through New South Wales, touching Victoria and its mouth is in South Australia. A logic lesson - taking out water means that there is little left to flow through to the mouth!

Whatever South Australia did to conserve water for the use of the people in the city, could do NOTHING to prevent the capture upstream.

I'm just so sick of hearing all this emo rubbish from eastern staters about the water issue..

Um, SA is not an eastern state.

And my sister in law who lives in Perth says they do have a water problem! I will agree with you that WA has done it well, and if you had bothered to read even just a little of what has been posted you would see that Prawn and I have both held our SA Government responsible for the mess. But then, we are unemployed welfare people, so we can't even read our own posts.

How dare you post such offensive stuff!

 

[chops_a_must]

Ditto, like you would even know what happens in Tasmania?

No. But I wouldn't write a blatant mistruth like that. However, Tasmania gets more in funding from the feds than it provides.

We have already agreed that each state parliament has been especially negligent in this. There is nothing that could have been done to save the Murray once the water is dammned and removed upstream. A geography lesson - the River Murray has its antecedents in the Darling Murray Basin which extends from Queensland, but more closely through New South Wales, touching Victoria and its mouth is in South Australia. A logic lesson - taking out water means that there is little left to flow through to the mouth!

Whatever South Australia did to conserve water for the use of the people in the city, could do NOTHING to prevent the capture upstream.

This is how I see it. South Australia is not willing to completely cut water flows to its own farmers, as seen with Prawn's Dad. However, he expects compensation regardless. If SA is not prepared to do the hard yards with something that affects them moreso than anyone else, why would anyone consider helping?

If NSW, QLD and VIC perceive that in a large way they are filling SA coffers, how could they defend making sacrifices on their own economies, to further the SA cause, to their own constituents?

As an environmentalist, I abhor what is going on with the Murray River. But the problems aren't just with the cotton and rice farmers. The problem is right down the line. And until SA is prepared to stop drawing water for any farming, I doubt anyone will take the concerns from South Australians seriously.

Um, SA is not an eastern state.

To me it is! :

And my sister in law who lives in Perth says they do have a water problem! I will agree with you that WA has done it well, and if you had bothered to read even just a little of what has been posted you would see that Prawn and I have both held our SA Government responsible for the mess. But then, we are unemployed welfare people, so we can't even read our own posts.

I don't consider it a problem.

The biggest problem we have is deciding whether or not to build another desal plant.

The debate about watering gardens and large tracts of lawn is long gone.

All I'm saying that until SA is prepared to take serious action, no-one else is going to either.

Beware the pariah people...

 

[2020hindsight]

Well I'm confused as to why the SA weirs / dams etc aren't full if the Darling has recently received a lot of flood runoff from Qld ?

Even if the Murray is a basket case (yes?)

Not enough storage capacity? (on second thoughts I think Prawn was trying to tell us that)

 

[prawn_86]

This is how I see it. South Australia is not willing to completely cut water flows to its own farmers, as seen with Prawn's Dad. However, he expects compensation regardless. If SA is not prepared to do the hard yards with something that affects them moreso than anyone else, why would anyone consider helping?

Chops,

If the government said to you "ok we are going to cut your ability to earn 80% of what you currently do" would you expect to be compensated?

Regardless of if the industry is sustainable or not, it has been happening for 100's of years and if the gov wishes to stop it, or dramatically reduce it then those affected should be fairly compensated.

Just the same as if a new highway goes through someones property. The gov compensates them, it doesnt just take it.