Worst drought ever

[Aussiejeff]

Announcement today...

November 12, 2007 12:31pm

LEVEL six water restrictions will be imposed across Queensland's southeast from November 23.

Water commissioner Elizabeth Nosworthy warned that if water consumption climbed above the target of 140 litres per person per day, bucket-watering of gardens may have to end.

Pool owners will be banned from using town water to fill their pools and households using more than 800 litres a day without legitimate reason face penalties.

The first offence will attract a fine of $450 and an outdoor watering ban.

Repeat offenders will face $1050 fines, an outdoor water ban and a flow restrictor for 30 days.

Households with five people or more will be exempt from the fines.

Other exemptions include special health reasons, home businesses with a legitimate reason for requiring water, building or renovation development and change of ownership or tenancy.

Back to the drought, then....



AJ

 

[Aussiejeff]

Hahaha! The Britz have the answer to our shortage of water....

BEER CHEAPER THAN WATER
November 12, 2007 01:31pm

BRITISH supermarkets are selling beer at prices cheaper than water and soft drinks, with cans sold for as little as 50 cents.

Supermarkets were stocking shelves with beer priced so low they were actually losing money, the Mail on Sunday reported. Experts estimated that the supermarkets were losing up to 18 cents per can through excise and production costs, the newspaper said. Many of the major supermarkets were now selling beer for just 50 pence ($1.15) a litre. The same supermarkets sell mineral water for 56p-92p a litre. Own-brand cola sells for 56p-65p.

The British health department has commissioned an independent review of alcohol pricing and promotion and has not ruled out changing regulations. Policy director at health group Alcohol Concern Don Shenker told the Mail the prices could have contributed to the UK’s binge drinking problem.

“The fact that it is cheaper than their own-brand of cola per litre is appalling,” Mr Shenker said. “This sends entirely the wrong message to the young drinkers we are trying to steer away from alcohol abuse. They will think that if it’s so cheap, it must be OK. We would urge supermarkets to seriously review their pricing policy.”

An Alcohol Concern report revealed that children could afford beer with their pocket money.
Figures from the National Treatment Agency revealed that even 10-year-olds were suffering from illnesses usually found in ageing alcoholics, the Mail reported.

LOL...



AJ

 

[Smurf1976]

Announcement today...

November 12, 2007 12:31pm

LEVEL six water restrictions will be imposed across Queensland's southeast from November 23.

Water commissioner Elizabeth Nosworthy warned that if water consumption climbed above the target of 140 litres per person per day, bucket-watering of gardens may have to end.

It must be getting serious if they're considering a ban on filling buckets.

What next? Brush your teeth only on Sundays? No topping up the indoor fish tank?

 

[Julia]

That's awful. How relieved the people will be who installed rainwater tanks.
I feel so sorry for Brisbane gardeners who are bearing the brunt of years of successive governments' inaction and failure to plan.

 

[Smurf1976]

Meanwhile in SW Tas 40 cumecs (40,000 litres per second) will be let go when the Serpentine spillway valve is tested on Wednesday. Won't be for long but it should give anyone standing beside the river a nice bath.

That is, by the way, not a lot of water. The average discharge via Gordon PS is about 100 cumecs or 370 million litres per hour. It goes up to about 1 billion litres an hour running flat out.

Anyone know how much it would cost to ship this to Brisbane etc? It's more than enough to water the gardens etc there.

 

[Smurf1976]

One warm day in Hobart yesterday. No heatwave, just 30 degrees and quite humid. Not much wind either. And now there's several fires burning in various parts of the state.

If that's what happens on one humid, moderately warm day then I'm not looking forward to what's going to happen with fires on a genuinely hot and dry one, especially if it's windy.

Presumably the risk is similar in other drought affected parts of the country too.

 

[nioka]

Time to get some more discussion on the drought. Which drought was that? Is it now in the past and one we will be discussing in future years by saying "I remember in 2007 etc".
We have had about 30 inches (750mm in the new money)of rain so far this year with floods and semi floods and the ground so wet that rice is a possible crop or just farm fish. The Clarence and Richmond rivers look like I remember the Yarra ( the river that is upside down with the mud on top.) Water restrictions are now just a political tool so that the government is spared the cost of additional infrastructue in our growing area and high water charges a taxing tool for local government. How long will this last?
And climate change with global warming. We have had the coolest summer so far for many years. Global cooling?? What is going on?

 

[Smurf1976]

Time to get some more discussion on the drought. Which drought was that? Is it now in the past and one we will be discussing in future years by saying "I remember in 2007 etc".
We have had about 30 inches (750mm in the new money)of rain so far this year with floods and semi floods and the ground so wet that rice is a possible crop or just farm fish. The Clarence and Richmond rivers look like I remember the Yarra ( the river that is upside down with the mud on top.) Water restrictions are now just a political tool so that the government is spared the cost of additional infrastructue in our growing area and high water charges a taxing tool for local government. How long will this last?
And climate change with global warming. We have had the coolest summer so far for many years. Global cooling?? What is going on?

Wish that were the case in Tas. The lack of rain now is far worse than it was 12 months ago. Inflows across the Hydro catchments are virtually zero and have been incredibly low for months now. Right off the scale. 22% at the moment heading towards 12% - 15% by the end of April assuming everything keeps going as it is.

That said, the East Coast was flooded this week. Big cracks in the ground and dust everywhere etc a week ago but then it rained, rained and rained some more. That ought to fill the new Meander Dam up nicely but it's not much help beyond that.

 

[Aussiejeff]

Time to get some more discussion on the drought. Which drought was that? Is it now in the past and one we will be discussing in future years by saying "I remember in 2007 etc".
We have had about 30 inches (750mm in the new money)of rain so far this year with floods and semi floods and the ground so wet that rice is a possible crop or just farm fish. The Clarence and Richmond rivers look like I remember the Yarra ( the river that is upside down with the mud on top.) Water restrictions are now just a political tool so that the government is spared the cost of additional infrastructue in our growing area and high water charges a taxing tool for local government. How long will this last?
And climate change with global warming. We have had the coolest summer so far for many years. Global cooling?? What is going on?

Wellllll....

The Murray river system has pretty much all of it's eggs in two baskets down to where the Darling River joins it. Those baskets are the Hume Dam (currently at a miserable 16% and steadily falling) and Dartmouth Dam (currently at a miserable 16% and steady - for now). Without a massive couple of winters with huge snow melts, Dartmouth and Hume Dam will not recover. Recent "heavy" rains in the Hume catchment areas have done almost nothing for it's volume.

So, the Murray is nowhere near out of the woods yet.....



AJ

 

[Smurf1976]

Never thought it would come to this. The Hydro turning off its own lights.

Still putting on a brave face with the Earth Hour thing though. Yep, it's all about the environment and nothing to do with empty lakes and spending $ millions per week trying to keep the system going.

21.9% and falling on Tuesday despite a bit of rain during the week.

Hydro Tasmania to join Earth Hour http://www.hydro.com.au/home/Corpor...eleases/Hydro_Tasmania_to_join_Earth_Hour.htm

 

[Julia]

Time to get some more discussion on the drought. Which drought was that? Is it now in the past and one we will be discussing in future years by saying "I remember in 2007 etc".
We have had about 30 inches (750mm in the new money)of rain so far this year with floods and semi floods and the ground so wet that rice is a possible crop or just farm fish. The Clarence and Richmond rivers look like I remember the Yarra ( the river that is upside down with the mud on top.) Water restrictions are now just a political tool so that the government is spared the cost of additional infrastructue in our growing area and high water charges a taxing tool for local government. How long will this last?
And climate change with global warming. We have had the coolest summer so far for many years. Global cooling?? What is going on?

Yes, coolest summer and the wettest I can ever remember. So much for global warming in coastal Qld at least.

I was in Woolworths today, having ploughed through waterlogged streets to get there, and one of the staff was busy putting up posters which said "Woolworths supports Drought Relief to Farmers".!

The price of fresh fruit and vegetables is increasing every day, such staple vegetables as beans are more than $10 kg. First we were told, 'oh, it's because of the drought', now of course it's 'oh it's because of the rain'.
How about "it's blatant profiteering". I don't imagine for one millisecond that the farmers are participating in the increased prices.

 

[chops_a_must]

Yes, coolest summer and the wettest I can ever remember. So much for global warming in coastal Qld at least.

I was in Woolworths today, having ploughed through waterlogged streets to get there, and one of the staff was busy putting up posters which said "Woolworths supports Drought Relief to Farmers".!

The price of fresh fruit and vegetables is increasing every day, such staple vegetables as beans are more than $10 kg. First we were told, 'oh, it's because of the drought', now of course it's 'oh it's because of the rain'.
How about "it's blatant profiteering". I don't imagine for one millisecond that the farmers are participating in the increased prices.

Well, Perth has had one of the hottest and wettest Summers in history. Humidity being a real problem.

With Australia moving north at the rate of 1cm per year, I think it is safe to say that Perth is now in the tropics.

 

[ithatheekret]

We seem to be able to get close to farmgate prices from a local down my way , basic seasonal veg , but I prefer the money going to the farmer . If he's not here next year , well there goes the cheap veg .

 

[nioka]

Wellllll....

The Murray river system has pretty much all of it's eggs in two baskets down to where the Darling River joins it. Those baskets are the Hume Dam (currently at a miserable 16% and steadily falling) and Dartmouth Dam (currently at a miserable 16% and steady - for now). Without a massive couple of winters with huge snow melts, Dartmouth and Hume Dam will not recover. Recent "heavy" rains in the Hume catchment areas have done almost nothing for it's volume.

So, the Murray is nowhere near out of the woods yet.....



AJ

I've just spent a few days on the Northern NSW tablelands and it rained most of the time. Creeks running bankers and some roads cut. The water is running west and will eventually reach the Murray unless it is all used up to fill the wetlands on the way. It should help. Our coastal rivers are close to a flood and have been for some time. What a waste. It is all going to sea yet the locals are campaigning against any move to send some west or even construct a dam. NIMBYS ???

 

[Smurf1976]

It is all going to sea yet the locals are campaigning against any move to send some west or even construct a dam. NIMBYS ???

NIMBY's or more likely BANANA's by the sounds of it.

...

The new Meander Dam in Tas was officially opened today. It's managed to get to about a quarter full thanks to it being in the only part of the state that's actually had decent rain (well, floods actually). Only 1.5MW average generation but every bit helps and it's a major benefit for irrigation.

Also today the Tas Govt announced $80 million to be spent on "drought proofing". This is for irrigation and involves pipelines to carry water to farms from the Mersey-Forth and Poatina power stations plus some new dams elsewhere in the state.

That money is in addition to funds being spent by Hydro Tas ($100 million last year and counting) and the proposed $1 billion to be spent on upgrading town water supplies. This drought is starting to get rather expensive down here.

As for the NIMBY's, they're too busy with other things and have been shown to be outright wrong over the power situation so they're lying pretty low on this one at the moment.

 

[bunyip]

Time to get some more discussion on the drought. Which drought was that? Is it now in the past and one we will be discussing in future years by saying "I remember in 2007 etc".
We have had about 30 inches (750mm in the new money)of rain so far this year with floods and semi floods and the ground so wet that rice is a possible crop or just farm fish. The Clarence and Richmond rivers look like I remember the Yarra ( the river that is upside down with the mud on top.) Water restrictions are now just a political tool so that the government is spared the cost of additional infrastructue in our growing area and high water charges a taxing tool for local government. How long will this last?
And climate change with global warming. We have had the coolest summer so far for many years. Global cooling?? What is going on?

What's going on is that the climate is just being its usual changeable self. It's all happened before. If not in the last 200 or so years since European settlement in Australia, then before that. The last few million years would have seen hundreds or even thousands of droughts, floods, cyclones, tsunamis etc, the equal of any we've seen in our recorded history. Some of them would have been even bigger and more severe than anything we've seen. In fact, climatologists continue to uncover evidence that supports this.
Mackay in QLD had 24 inches of rain in six hours yesterday. Incredible rain, but not the largest fall ever recorded.
People tend to have short memories. We get a really hot summer and people say 'Geez, we've never had anything like this before'.
But I remember when I was a kid growing up in country QLD, about 3 or 4 hours west of Brisbane. One summer we had several days that killed crows and chooks. It has to be pretty darned hot to kill a crow, but some of them died that year. I went over to the chook pen and there was a crow sitting on a low branch, just a couple of feet above my head. His beak was wide open and he was gasping for air, and his wings were held out away from his body, and drooped down, trying to cool himself. Crows are normally wary birds that will clear off when they see a person approaching. But this crow was so heat stressed that he just sat there, and I reached up and gave him a poke with a stick and even then he didn't fly off.
Later that day I found him dead under the tree. Next day we were out mustering and we came across a dozen or so dead birds. Some of our chooks died. The temperature was 115 degrees farenheit in the shade on the veranda at 2 pm. That's 44 degrees in today's language.
In Central QLD I lived through a day that was 45 degrees, and out west near Cunnamulla, we once recorded 46. Some of the locals out there told me they recorded days of 50 in past years.
Yet when we get those sort of temperatures these days, people say it's abnormal weather caused by climate change.

The current drought, incidentally, is not over. In some parts it might be, but there are still dry areas with little or no decent rain as yet. More than half QLD is still drought declared.
The dams that supply some cities are still in dire straits.

 

[Julia]

What's going on is that the climate is just being its usual changeable self. It's all happened before. If not in the last 200 or so years since European settlement in Australia, then before that. The last few million years would have seen hundreds or even thousands of droughts, floods, cyclones, tsunamis etc, the equal of any we've seen in our recorded history. Some of them would have been even bigger and more severe than anything we've seen. In fact, climatologists continue to uncover evidence that supports this.
Mackay in QLD had 24 inches of rain in six hours yesterday. Incredible rain, but not the largest fall ever recorded.
People tend to have short memories. We get a really hot summer and people say 'Geez, we've never had anything like this before'.
But I remember when I was a kid growing up in country QLD, about 3 or 4 hours west of Brisbane. One summer we had several days that killed crows and chooks. It has to be pretty darned hot to kill a crow, but some of them died that year. I went over to the chook pen and there was a crow sitting on a low branch, just a couple of feet above my head. His beak was wide open and he was gasping for air, and his wings were held out away from his body, and drooped down, trying to cool himself. Crows are normally wary birds that will clear off when they see a person approaching. But this crow was so heat stressed that he just sat there, and I reached up and gave him a poke with a stick and even then he didn't fly off.
Later that day I found him dead under the tree. Next day we were out mustering and we came across a dozen or so dead birds. Some of our chooks died. The temperature was 115 degrees farenheit in the shade on the veranda at 2 pm. That's 44 degrees in today's language.
In Central QLD I lived through a day that was 45 degrees, and out west near Cunnamulla, we once recorded 46. Some of the locals out there told me they recorded days of 50 in past years.
Yet when we get those sort of temperatures these days, people say it's abnormal weather caused by climate change.

The current drought, incidentally, is not over. In some parts it might be, but there are still dry areas with little or no decent rain as yet. More than half QLD is still drought declared.
The dams that supply some cities are still in dire straits.

Oh dear, Bunyip, what heresy you speak! How dare you! Every peculiarity in the weather is entirely due to man's sins.
The climate change Gods will get you, you know!

 

[Smurf1976]

Agreed that there is a lot of unscientific nonsense about droughts and climate change.

But it is a fact that something has changed dramatically with the rainfall in SW WA. Ten years of drought in other parts of the country maybe, but three decades of constant drought in SW WA is pushing the limits to argue that it's not a change in the climate there. And we're talking about a two thirds reduction not 5 or 10% so it's rather significant both statistically and in terms of impact.

 

[bunyip]

Climate change is a naturally occurring phenomena that's been going on for hundreds of thousands or even millions of years. Extreme weather events like we've seen in our lifetime, particularly recently, are quite normal in the overall context of things. It's all happened before and will go on happening.
There's irrefutable evidence that Australia has copped cyclones, floods, droughts, even tsunamis, of far greater magnitude that any that have occurred in the last two hundred years since we started monitoring and recording the weather.
The other interesting information starting to emerge from climatic research is that climate change is not always in the same direction. There appears to have been periods of as much as a couple of hundred years when the climate actually became cooler rather than warmer. Or wetter rather than drier. Then a bit further down the track, another few hundred years where the trend reversed again. And so on, back and forth, swinging from cycle to cycle, with many of the cycles lasting for centuries.

However, I don't dismiss the possibility that toxic emissions from factories and vehicle exhausts etc, are harming the atmosphere and perhaps affecting the speed of climate change. Common sense should dictate that we take whatever measures we reasonably can to address this problem.
Even from a simple human health perspective, it must surely be prudent to put some effort into looking after the atmosphere. It's a lot nicer breathing clean air than having your lungs invaded by the smoggy, toxic muck that people in heavily industrialised areas are forced to breathe.

There needs to be some balanced thinking on climate change.
It's naive and foolish to yell 'MAN MADE CLIMATE CHANGE' every time we get a decent drought or a big cyclone or some other extreme weather event.
It's equally naive and foolish to dismiss the possibility that industrial emissions have the potential to adversely affect our atmosphere, our health, and our climate.
And even more naive and foolish not to take whatever measures we reasonably can to minimise the potential damage.

 

[bunyip]

Agreed that there is a lot of unscientific nonsense about droughts and climate change.

But it is a fact that something has changed dramatically with the rainfall in SW WA. Ten years of drought in other parts of the country maybe, but three decades of constant drought in SW WA is pushing the limits to argue that it's not a change in the climate there. And we're talking about a two thirds reduction not 5 or 10% so it's rather significant both statistically and in terms of impact.

Smurf

Seems to me that a 66% reduction in rainfall in a relatively short period of time is most likely due to the volatile and extreme nature of the Australian climate.
If it was due to long term climate change, wouldn't it stand to reason that the change would be more gradual?