Why do you hate/love John Howard?

[anon]

A FEW months back when John Howard celebrated 10 years in office, Phillip Adams announced that, while the past decade had felt more like a century, "we Howard haters are popping the corks". Why? Because the anniversary in February "marks the approaching end of the Howard millstone", Adams said.

"We Howard haters" are not few in numbers and some occupy important places whence they project their opinions to the Australian public. For instance SMH's Allan Ramsey calls Howard "a toad".
Phillip Adams in The Australian has never had a good word for Howard, often comparing him unfavourably to Keating. Can't say that ABC isn't biased either. For some reasons, however, the Australian public isn't paying much attention to the haters as seen in recent polls on Channels 9 & 10, where viewers expressed a 70% to 30% preference for John Howard over Kim Beazley.

As a result of today's rate rise there will be lot more attacks on Howard, many being based on his promise of no rate rises made during the last election. How seriously will this affect his chances of being elected for his fifth term?

What do the forum members feel about him? Love him or hate him? What are your reasons?

anon

 

[wayneL]

I hate 'em all.

I've personally known two MP's. one federal, one state.

Believe me when I say that politics turns people into toads.

 

[professor_frink]

love the picture Wayne

I don't personally dislike him any more or less than any other politician. My opinion of politicians in general- :swear:

 

[Ageo]

that Frog on the right looks like a local MP Joe Tripodi.


hehe funny

 

[juddy]

I am at odds with the federal government policy of funding private schools. If these schools were subject to the same terms of student acceptance and retention that public schools are then that is equitable and I would be more accepting of their funding. Currently, the private school sector, especially those that have a religious bent are some of the last institutions in Australia that are allowed to openly discriminate against students and families.

 

[Mumbank]

I Love him. I think he has been great for the economy and great for the country and its daylight second to any other possible PM from any party. IMHO.

My only disappointment is what the IR laws will do for our youth and our unskilled and semi skilled workers.

 

[macca]

One of the problems with John Howard is that he is smarter than the left wing commentators, when someone is smarter than you it is quite normal to try and white ant them.

An example of this is, if you recall, after the last election quite a number of people, including some on this forum, actually abused the general public for being "stupid enough" to vote for Libs.

Whatever happened to our democratic right to vote for whoever we please.

If the vote counting says Libs win then so be it, don't abuse people, they may get stubborn and just keep on doing it

In the run up to the last election I do not ever recall the Libs saying interest won't rise, from memory they said that historically, average interest has been higher under Labor govt than Lib govt.

If Labor can prove that statement wrong then why don't they?

Having said that, I don't love JH or hate him either, I just want a stable government where personal effort is rewarded and the freeloaders are curtailed. In discussions with friends and on various forums it seems to me that a lot of people feel the same way

As that is the broad stated policy of the Libs I think they will get re-elected next time as well, much to the disgust of the self centred bleeding hearts and do-gooders.

But we are a democracy, we get to vote don't we, even then some people complain that they have to vote, can't win can we...who would be a pollie...... not me

 

[wayneL]

One of the problems with John Howard is that he is smarter than the left wing commentators, when someone is smarter than you it is quite normal to try and white ant them.

An example of this is, if you recall, after the last election quite a number of people, including some on this forum, actually abused the general public for being "stupid enough" to vote for Libs.

Whatever happened to our democratic right to vote for whoever we please.

If the vote counting says Libs win then so be it, don't abuse people, they may get stubborn and just keep on doing it

In the run up to the last election I do not ever recall the Libs saying interest won't rise, from memory they said that historically, average interest has been higher under Labor govt than Lib govt.

If Labor can prove that statement wrong then why don't they?

Having said that, I don't love JH or hate him either, I just want a stable government where personal effort is rewarded and the freeloaders are curtailed. In discussions with friends and on various forums it seems to me that a lot of people feel the same way

As that is the broad stated policy of the Libs I think they will get re-elected next time as well, much to the disgust of the self centred bleeding hearts and do-gooders.

But we are a democracy, we get to vote don't we, even then some people complain that they have to vote, can't win can we...who would be a pollie...... not me

macca,

Great post!

I still hate the bastids.... all of 'em.

 

[Ants]

I love him because hes a LIAR. Oh did I say love? ..silly me. I mean HATE him. No hate is too strong of a word to waste my energies on. He's where he is because he's the BEST lying weezel there is. What an accomplishment.

 

[MalteseBull]

I love him! (yes, i am pro-liberal)

He put the economy on the map (introducing the GST did a world of good)..

Hope uranium energy gets the go ahead...

 

[MalteseBull]

I Love him. I think he has been great for the economy and great for the country and its daylight second to any other possible PM from any party. IMHO.

My only disappointment is what the IR laws will do for our youth and our unskilled and semi skilled workers.

yeah the IR laws are sh*t
i have stopped working on the weekends now as i don't get penality rates..
looks like i'll be enjoying a few public holidays this year!

 

[Ants]

Young People liking John Howard? What happened? No wonder there are shows like Pop Idol and wars in the east? Things arnt getting better . They are escalating . and as long as people like Howard are running things with his "wisdom". People are bamboozled. Lets hope its justa phase :

 

[carmo]

HATE, I watched 7:30 Report tonight, can't help but think he wished he had handed over to Costello. I wonder what his brother Syd is doing these days.

 

[Smurf1976]

I neither love nor hate John Howard.

As a politician, he's pretty good at the job. Hence he keeps getting elected.

But I do think that many of his government's "achievements" are seriously over rated.

Much is said about Australia's "strong economy". John Howard and Peter Costello themselves call it "good economic management", implying that the government is "managing" the economy. A fair enough claim if it's true.

But if you're going to take credit when something goes right, then you also have to take credit when it goes wrong. When the news is bad, "good economic management" is replaced with "international factors" or "personal responsibility". You can't have it both ways, either the government is managing the economy or it isn't. It's just not right to say that you're managing the things that go right and that everything that goes wrong is due to some external influence. If one is true then the other simply isn't. JH is either responsible for good and bad or neither.

In reality, just about any clown could have "run" a strong economy in recent times. International factors have given us low interest rates, the ultimate source of much consumer spending (see http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200608/s1704303.htm as an example of how this boosts spending) and the rise in asset prices, notably housing.

Likewise the commodities boom is hardly something that JH can claim credit for. Unless he claims to be managing the US (as the ultimate consumer) and Chinese economies as well. A difficult claim for anyone but the Governer of the Fed to make. That's been Alan Greenspan and now Ben Bernanke, not John Howard.

Bottom line on the economy is that it's hard to not have a boom if consumers are steadily running up debt, which is exactly what they have been doing. Since the circumstances that gave rise to this have occurred internationally, it's hard for JH to claim too much credit. I suppose he could say that he hasn't stood in the way. But then not many would stand in the way of a freight train running at top speed.

When the day comes, and it will, that consumer debt becomes an economic millstone rather than a source of present day growth, we'll no longer be hearing of "good economic management". We'll be hearing of "personal responsibility" instead. Somewhat correct, but it makes an absolute lie of the claim that the recent boom has been "managed". Indeed the wheel is already turning - http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200608/s1704416.htm

It's also hard to overlook the contribution of various state governments and previous federal governments. Much of the economic activity in this country directly results from their decisions. Indeed my greatest concern is that much of our current prosperity results from PAST decisions and we're not adequately investing in the future. This is particularly the case where "big" things are concerned.

Amongst others, some of the big things which contribute to our prosperity and those responsible for getting them built include:

Raliways (various state governments dating back to the 1800's).

Snowy Hydro scheme (First proposed in a modest form by NSW, then in a much larger form by Victoria and in it's actual (even larger) form by the federal government in the late 1940's and built between 1949 and 1975.

Major roads (various state and federal governments over the years).

NW Shelf gas / oil (proposed by private companies, promoted by WA state government and approved by the federal government in the 1970's).

Queensland coal industry (a very major exporter) - (heavily pushed by previous Queensland state governments, particularly in the 1970's and 80's).

Tasmanian Hydro-Electric schemes (twice the size of the Snowy) - (First commenced by what is now Zinifex in 1910 and heavily pushed by various, almost exclusively Labor, state governments since 1934. An industry championed by Premier "Electric Eric" Reece in the 1950's and especially 1960's.)

Sydney and Melbourne city infrastructure (mostly due to various local and state governments).

Capital city water supplies (state governments and in some cases local government).

Aluminium industry (initiated by the federal and Tasmanian governments in the late 1940's and heavily promoted by various state governments since then, notably in the 1970's and 80's).

Iron ore exports (promoted by private enterprise and backed by the WA and federal government some decades ago).

Latrobe Valley brown coal power (championed by the Victorian state government and driven personally by Sir John Monash from 1918 and built completely by various Victorian state governments 1918 - 1994).

Tourism (promoted as a legitimate industry by the Tasmanian government since the 1930's with other states subsequently joining. The federal government was rather late to the party.)

Agriculture (largely individuals and state governments during the period of rapid expansion).

Cooper Basin gas / oil (private enterprise financially backed by the SA government (via the then Electricity Trust of SA)).

Bass Strait oil / gas (private enterprise with federal government support from the mid-1960's to mid 80's).

Much of the productive industry and infrastructure which underpins our economy and lifestyle has two things in common. It came about due to the efforts of private enterprise and/or state governments of both political persuasions. And it is getting old with insufficient investment to sustain it (though there are exceptions). This last point, the lack of ongoing investment, is sowing the seeds of serious trouble in future IMO.

 

[Julia]

I'm reasonably happy with John Howard. Particularly when I consider the alternatives. Don't like Costello. Kim Beasley and his whole team, barring possibly Kevin Rudd who has a lot of potential, are insubstantial and unfit to govern.

In John Howard's favour is the fact that he never gets hysterical or loses his temper, and projects an image of steadiness. This is immensely reassuring to the populace at large and imo the main reason why his "flexibility with the truth" is so easily overlooked. I detest his unquestioning obedience to the USA, but appreciate that if the **** ever hits the fan, then we are going to need their assistance, so suppose he's doing what he feels is necessary.
I resent immensely his involving Australia in the war in Iraq. If Labor promised to bring our troops home from Iraq that is probably the only reason I would ever vote other than Liberal.

Agree entirely with preceding comments that it's oh so easy to take credit for a successful economy on the back of the resources boom and overall global excellent conditions.

Julia

 

[coyotte]

If good economic management means :

Selling all our gold reserves when POG had bottomed
Signing N/Gas contracts in $us when $au had bottomed
Commiting future retirees to beggers
Commiting our young to a life of renters
Commiting the working/ middle classes to declining incomes
Moves towards 40 year moragages


Looks like Keating was right after all , when he said we where in danger of turning into a BANANA REPUBLIC

PS: Julia why would the US come to our assistance , unless it was in their interest ? China Vs Oz ?, I highly doubt it

 

[visual]

I`m not sure I love John Howard but compared to Beasley he actually looks like a comfortable choice.Also living in a safe labour seat means that no one actually cares for our area so instead of wasting my vote and achieving nothing I vote liberal ,certainly as long as Howard is on,maybe I figure one day if enough of us vote liberal someone might become interested in us.

 

[Tim]

We criticise politicians as if it's a mandatory part of life. Yet the sad part of it is, >99% of the population would do the same thing if they were the politicians' shoes. Don't tell me you wouldn't go on junkets, give yourself 6% pay rises, lie to the public, cover things up, blame others for petrol prices, etc, etc. It's human nature to behave in such a way (and if you don't already, it's human nature to start behaving in such a way as soon as you become a politician).

Many, many people go into politics with good intentions, but politics is not the place for people with good intentions. I can guarantee that all of you who dislike <INSERT NAME OF ARBITRARY POLITICIAN> will be complaining about politicians till the day you die. The fact is, politicians can't keep everybody happy all of the time. It's not possible, ever. All a politician tries to do is shut as many people up as they can with each decision they make.

Politics is not based on logic, fairness, equality and good decision making, it's based on emotion. And that is the single greatest flaw in human psychology.

 

[Ants]

In John Howard's favour is the fact that he never gets hysterical or loses his temper, and projects an image of steadiness.

I think he projects the image of a scared weasley little guy.

 

[mit]

Hate John Howard, no even though I am on the different side of the fence (I didn't used to be, just everybody else shifted to the right).

I blame the media and a weak opposition. The scandals with AWB, DIMIA and ASIS would have been found out by the media first in the 60s and 70s. Certainly Vanstone, Ruddock and the old defense minister would have been hounded out of office by now by what has happened under their watch, plausible deniability or not. The only place you hear about the various investigations and whistleblowers is on the abc, the commercial networks barely acknowledge they happen. Even the department heads tend to get a promotion rather than being sacked.

The Howard government has taken credit for a good economy which is more thanks to the very hard yards put in by Hawke/Keating government, the commodity boom and not tripping over. Although, there can be an argument that the election porkbarrelling has contributed to the rate rises.

Now the economy is getting into harder times the best the can do is put a f***ing commercial on the TV to tell us to spend less.

However, would a Labor government be different, probably not.

In the run up to the last election I do not ever recall the Libs saying interest won't rise, from memory they said that historically, average interest has been higher under Labor govt than Lib govt.

If Labor can prove that statement wrong then why don't they?

No the Libs actually said that they will keep interest rates at historical lows. They did weasel out of it soon after but the damage was done.

MIT