Why are some people poor?

Julia · 25 September 2009

Mr J said:
Most people lack discipline.

That's a very broad statement. Are you sure you're being fair, and not being rather patronising?

Wysiwyg said:
Yes, many find reason for `poor` in the individuals psychological makeup, just as you have done. It is obvious to me that a large proportion of this planets poor people are the direct result of oppressive leaders and the laws they create. Some other reasons are extreme climate, poor soil, little or no water supply, lack of knowledge, wars and disease.

Thank your lucky stars that this country has an abundance of life sustaining natural resources along with the intelligence of predecessor and present to create a civilised country resulting in a quality of life for the inhabitants.

Perfectly obviously the above is true. Perhaps I should have been more clear that when I asked the original question which began the thread, I wasn't including such obvious stuff as this.

Rather, my interest was in why if you take two people living in the same country, with roughly the same level of basic IQ, and give them both $1000, say, one will quickly work out how to make it grow, and the other will simply spend it.

Riddick · 25 September 2009

Mr J said:
So you're suggesting that all minimum wage earners are lazy? I can only assume that you have never been poor, don't truly know anyone who is poor, or at least have no idea of what they go through. If someone is barely making enough for the necessities, how are they meant to get ahead? Hard work alone is not enough.

I can only assume you have never been poor! As a migrant who came with my family to australia as a child and who has no extended family your comment sounds like you have never really struggled. define barely making enough for "necessities". If you can only earn enough in the short term for a few vegies and some bread, then this is what you eat for a month. if you can;t afford a car, then you don't have one. If you can't afford a phone then you dont have one (we didn't have a pone all through school and university). If you can't afford to go on holiday or have a TV don't buy one, don't use credit. the list is endless.

at the end of all that the lesson is that when you are financialy poor you really have to swallow pride (like we did) and live well within your means until such times as you are in control of your finances.

I refuse to believe that people cannot make enough for necessities. If you count necessities as basic food and a basic house then even 20k a year will suffice. No extra clothes, no socialising. just living within your means. sounds harsh but as a person who for many years lived in this manner - as a child then into studenthood - I will testify that what fits into needs is not really very much.

As a result of this experience my family has amassed considerable wealth in a short period of time (assets and cash over $3 mil) due to hard work, not making excuses and making some big sacrifices.

just my thoughts thats all.

Tysonboss1 · 25 September 2009

Mr J said:
If someone is barely making enough for the necessities, how are they meant to get ahead?

Earn more, you are not born with a limit to your earning potential.

The amount you earn is a direct result of your education, effort, efficiancy, willingness to learn etc.etc

If someone is not earning enough they can choose to change that.

Tysonboss1 · 25 September 2009

Riddick said:
I refuse to believe that people cannot make enough for necessities. If you count necessities as basic food and a basic house then even 20k a year will suffice. No extra clothes, no socialising. just living within your means. sounds harsh but as a person who for many years lived in this manner - as a child then into studenthood - I will testify that what fits into needs is not really very much.

As a result of this experience my family has amassed considerable wealth in a short period of time (assets and cash over $3 mil) due to hard work, not making excuses and making some big sacrifices.

just my thoughts thats all.

Well said,

Chris45 · 25 September 2009

Tysonboss1 said:
On a side note, I think I am proof it doesn't take high intelligence to build up a bit of wealth, I can't even spell properly most of the time.

Being very intelligent doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be wealthy. I don't think Einstein was a billionaire. Inability to spell words correctly doesn't necessarily indicate low general intelligence. But, highly intelligent people do tend to be wealthier than those with low intelligences.

What's your IQ? I'd be surprised if it was less than 90.

Apparently, the IQ gives a good indication of the occupational group that a person will end up in, though not of course the specific occupation. In their book, "Know Your Child’s IQ", Glen Wilson and Diana Grylls outline occupations typical of various IQ levels:
140 Top Civil Servants; Professors and Research Scientists.
130 Physicians and Surgeons; Lawyers; Engineers (Civil and Mechanical)
120 School Teachers; Pharmacists; Accountants; Nurses; Stenographers; Managers.
110 Foremen; Clerks; Telephone Operators; Salesmen; Policemen; Electricians.
100+ Machine Operators; Shopkeepers; Butchers; Welders; Sheet Metal Workers.
100- Warehousemen; Carpenters; Cooks and Bakers; Small Farmers; Truck and Van Drivers.
90 Laborers; Gardeners; Upholsterers; Farmhands; Miners; Factory Packers and Sorters.

Tysonboss1 · 25 September 2009

Chris45 said:
What's your IQ? I'd be surprised if it was less than 90.

I question the accuracy of IQ tests in general but I did one about 5 years ago and I think I scored 124.

Fishbulb · 25 September 2009

Tysonboss1 said:
do you mean all the people who were saying that the poor weren't wealthy because they didn't have the intelligence or special gifts like the rich had.

I haven't read through the entire thread so I'll pass

I guess what I meant by that, was that some folks look down their nose at the poor for their lack of fiduciary power, whether it's from the reasons you mentioned or otherwise.

Tysonboss1 · 25 September 2009

Fishbulb said:
I guess what I meant by that, was that some folks look down their nose at the poor for their lack of fiduciary power, whether it's from the reasons you mentioned or otherwise.

Yeah it happens and It's wrong.

This happens in all walks of life, their will always be an element that will look down down their noses at people for all sorts of reasons, whether it be they think they are Richer, More educated, have better fashion sense, have a faster car, are a better footballer, listen to better music, have parents that let them stay out longer, they weighless than you, they weigh more than you, they can run faster than you, they feel you shouldn't be hitting your kids, they feel you should be hitting your kids,

It is not something that is limited to "rich vs Poor",

awg · 25 September 2009

Tysonboss1 said:
I question the accuracy of IQ tests in general but I did one about 5 years ago and I think I scored 124.

I was thinking about this matter while reading this thread and got curious,

followed on from a thread that Trembling Hand had about what it takes to make a trader.

So I wonder what the IQ of participants on ASF/this thread, might be, and whether higher intelligence does correlate to higher wealth?

I have also had the privilege to know several self made entrepreneurs...these guys were much older than me and did not have Uni degrees or high education, so it was difficult to gauge from the way they talked etc, how intelligent they were, but they all had enormous reserves of something, I cant place my finger on it, but even though my IQ was probably higher, I would have swapped my mental capacity for theirs.

btw, the average IQ is actually 100

When I was in school, I covertly perused my file in both primary and high school,( while I was waiting to get disciplined in the principals room) and they had my IQ as respectively 130+ and 140, later when I did the adult Uni entrance exam, my mark was in the top 2%..although I should say plenty of people would probably reckon they were all mistakes
I have had a person tell me that could definitely not be right

I do think that in my case, this has helped me accumulate wealth, but the concepts and maths of investing or trading are elementary.

anyone want to own up to being below average intelligence, and accumulated wealth?..dont worry...you are anonymous

If no one does, that means we are all above average

Mr J · 25 September 2009

I'd swap 30 IQ points for some concentration points.

trainspotter · 25 September 2009

awg said:
I was thinking about this matter while reading this thread and got curious, So I wonder what the IQ of participants on ASF/this thread, might be, and whether higher intelligence does correlate to higher wealth?

btw, the average IQ is actually 100

When I was in school, I covertly perused my file in both primary and high school,( while I was waiting to get disciplined in the principals room) and they had my IQ as respectively 130+ and 140, later when I did the adult Uni entrance exam, my mark was in the top 2%..although I should say plenty of people would probably reckon they were all mistakes
I have had a person tell me that could definitely not be right

anyone want to own up to being below average intelligence, and accumulated wealth?..dont worry...you are anonymous

If no one does, that means we are all above average

That would be me. I am a dullard and obtuse in the extreme measure.

Chris45 · 25 September 2009

Tysonboss1 said:
I question the accuracy of IQ tests in general but I did one about 5 years ago and I think I scored 124.

Tyson, I agree with most of what you have said, except your assertion that 99% of people could achieve an investment income of $50,000 pa by age 50, even with compounding. No way!

About 25% of our population have IQs of more than 110.
About 50% of our population have IQs of between 90 and 110.
About 25% of our population have IQs of less than 90.

If your IQ is 124 (+/- a few points) then you are in the top 25% and probably even in the top 10% and I think you're a good example of what an intelligent person can achieve if he uses his gifts wisely.

However, I think there would be only a few people in the bottom 75% who could achieve that simply because they just don't have the intellectual capacity to make the necessary correct investment decisions. $50k pa is a very handsome investment income!

I agree with Mr J that "Only a minority can aspire towards earning a passive income of ~$50k."

Einstein's IQ was apparently 160. I wish I was that smart!

Chris45 · 25 September 2009

awg said:
I do think that in my case, this has helped me accumulate wealth, but the concepts and maths of investing or trading are elementary.

Elementary for a person with an IQ of 130+, certainly!

Mr J · 25 September 2009

Remember that IQ can be misleading. It really just measures who is better at that specific test. Change the questions and time and the results could be quite different.

greggy · 25 September 2009

Mr J said:
Remember that IQ can be misleading. It really just measures who is better at that specific test. Change the questions and time and the results could be quite different.

True indeed. different tests can provide different results. When I joined my organisation over a decade ago I had to be in the top 1% to get in in terms of aptitude. Lucky I fluked it. My best friend, a Menza member didn't even get close to my score.

wayneL · 25 September 2009

greggy said:
True indeed. different tests can provide different results. When I joined my organisation over a decade ago I had to be in the top 1% to get in in terms of aptitude. Lucky I fluked it. My best friend, a Menza member didn't even get close to my score.

I've scored everything from 95 to 140 in IQ tests. Neither are anywhere close to how smart I "think" I am (but would believe 95 more than 140 )

Julia · 25 September 2009

Chris45 said:
Being very intelligent doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be wealthy. I don't think Einstein was a billionaire. Inability to spell words correctly doesn't necessarily indicate low general intelligence. But, highly intelligent people do tend to be wealthier than those with low intelligences.

What's your IQ? I'd be surprised if it was less than 90.

(This was referring to Tyson.)

Apparently, the IQ gives a good indication of the occupational group that a person will end up in, though not of course the specific occupation. In their book, "Know Your Child’s IQ", Glen Wilson and Diana Grylls outline occupations typical of various IQ levels:
140 Top Civil Servants; Professors and Research Scientists.
130 Physicians and Surgeons; Lawyers; Engineers (Civil and Mechanical)
120 School Teachers; Pharmacists; Accountants; Nurses; Stenographers; Managers.
110 Foremen; Clerks; Telephone Operators; Salesmen; Policemen; Electricians.
100+ Machine Operators; Shopkeepers; Butchers; Welders; Sheet Metal Workers.
100- Warehousemen; Carpenters; Cooks and Bakers; Small Farmers; Truck and Van Drivers.
90 Laborers; Gardeners; Upholsterers; Farmhands; Miners; Factory Packers and Sorters.

That's a pretty insulting suggestion to make to Tyson, Chris45!
Given that 100 is considered the average IQ, to suggest you would be surprised if Tyson's was less than 90 is at the very least patronising.
So you are lumping him in with the bottom order of workers in the table you quote.

I'd suggest his posts and general obvious common sense put him at decidedly above average IQ, something he has later attested to himself.

Someone whose opinion I respect once said that IQ tests are a measurement of nothing more than one's ability to do IQ tests. I think that's often right.

I once bought a book of IQ tests. I was a helluva lot smarter at the end than when I did the first one.

Chris45 · 26 September 2009

Julia said:
That's a pretty insulting suggestion to make to Tyson, Chris45!
Given that 100 is considered the average IQ, to suggest you would be surprised if Tyson's was less than 90 is at the very least patronising.
So you are lumping him in with the bottom order of workers in the table you quote.

Julia, that is a ridiculous suggestion!

Someone whose opinion I respect once said that IQ tests are a measurement of nothing more than one's ability to do IQ tests. I think that's often right.

I've heard that cynical comment before and I think the majority of psychologists would disagree with it if the tests are properly administered.

I once bought a book of IQ tests. I was a helluva lot smarter at the end than when I did the first one.

Obviously practice will improve your score on a particular type of test which is probably why psychologists these days use a variety of tests and keep them confidential.

Mr J · 26 September 2009

Julia said:
That's a very broad statement. Are you sure you're being fair, and not being rather patronising?

I agree that it was too strong (for some reason I've had a harsh mindset lately). Perhaps not a lack of discipline, but an inconsistency in how it is applied. I'm certainly no exception!

Tysonboss1 said:
Earn more, you are not born with a limit to your earning potential.

The amount you earn is a direct result of your education, effort, efficiancy, willingness to learn etc.etc

If someone is not earning enough they can choose to change that.

I don't think you appreciate the circumstances with which many live. It's not as simple as 'work harder' or 'get an education'. I would identify your words to come from someone who has never experienced poverty. Have you? If not, why do you think you can make an informed argument regarding why they are poor?

Julia · 26 September 2009

Chris45 said:
What's your IQ? I'd be surprised if it was less than 90.

Apparently, the IQ gives a good indication of the occupational group that a person will end up in, though not of course the specific occupation. In their book, "Know Your Child’s IQ", Glen Wilson and Diana Grylls outline occupations typical of various IQ levels:

90 Laborers; Gardeners; Upholsterers; Farmhands; Miners; Factory Packers and Sorters.

Chris45 said:
Julia, that is a ridiculous suggestion!

I agree entirely. It was, however, you who made the ridiculous suggestion as shown above.

Why are some people poor?

Julia

In Memoriam

Riddick

Tysonboss1

Tysonboss1

Chris45

Tysonboss1

Fishbulb

Tysonboss1

awg

Mr J

trainspotter

Chris45

Chris45

Mr J

greggy

wayneL

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

Julia

In Memoriam

Chris45

Mr J

Julia

In Memoriam

Similar threads

Why are some people poor?

In Memoriam

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

In Memoriam

In Memoriam

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency