Where in the hell is Australia heading?

[sails]

...
1. Graduated last year
2. Yes


I tend to find that younger people put significantly more emphasis on long-term environmental issues, since we are the ones who will have to deal with them long after the older generations have passed away or no longer care ...

Ahhh, but we do care. Many of us have grandchildren for whom we care very much. We want to leave an Australia for them to call home, a place where they can get work and enjoy life without the interruptions of dictatorial type governments. It would be entirely selfish to not fight for their future.

And, don't you realise we were also young once but perhaps have become wiser with the years? We have witnessed many of life's cycles including weather and politics to know that much of what the greens want is not going to be good for Australia. It's a shame that young people are so brainwashed at schools and universities and then want to implement these seemingly warm and fuzzy policies without the life's experiences behind them.

Were you never taught to think for yourself, or have you just swallowed the greenie untested policies line hook, line and sinker?

 

[derty]

Do you mean McCarthyistic?

If so, you have little appreciation and even less understanding of what that was all about.

To invoke that, is rather alarmist... but no surprises there.

You're right waynel - mispelt and misused.

i should have left it at; it is sad that such a divisive piece originally written by some Republican fundamentalist wingnut can be slightly altered and find so much resonance in Australia.

 

[joea]

I find that younger people tend to put significantly more emphasis on what they have been indoctrinated in, have expended consider emotional and financial investment in these views.

Climate change for example: It is very difficult for them to realize that the planet does not need saving (from anthropogenic climate change at least) after they have devoted the first part of their lives to that belief. (Although it is interesting that most are content to preach about the evils of co2 and not actually do anything about it in their own lifestyles)

Older people tend to be more circumspect, willing to listen to pros and cons and come to an "on balance" view.

There are the short term profiteers who disregard the future, but in my experience these come from every age group.

The younger people have the media and its technology to draw information from.
They can absorb and compile a point of view in a very short time.
The older generation remember how our nation was built, by politicans on both side.

You will find when the "s**t" hits the fan, the older generation will be soldiering on.
Many of the younger generation will be hiding behind the door until the splatter stops, to then re- emerge with a different point of view.

That's life I guess.
We have always understood in this country, that the "the vocal minority" generally gets its way on a number of issues.
Thats not to say they younger generation should not be heard.
The bottom line is, the voters must vote for "policy" and not "spin".

over and out. joea

 

[breaker]

sails who,d have thought 20 years no 10 years ago a poof and an atheist and de facto would be running the country, I hope we never become a republic

 

[Bigukraine]

I find that younger people tend to put significantly more emphasis on what they have been indoctrinated in, have expended considerable emotional and financial investment in these views.

Climate change for example: It is very difficult for them to realize that the planet does not need saving (from anthropogenic climate change at least) after they have devoted the first part of their lives to that belief. (Although it is interesting that most are content to preach about the evils of co2 and not actually do anything about it in their own lifestyles)

Older people tend to be more circumspect, willing to listen to pros and cons and come to an "on balance" view.

There are the short term profiteers who disregard the future, but in my experience these come from every age group.

you have hit the nail on the head...... small example in regional sa where i live the local dump has come to the end of its life.... it must be rehabilitated to how it was.... enter the recently graduated uni student's engineer and biologist putting into motion something that works in theory and on paper but doesn't work in the real world.new soil has to be dumped in an area but can't be driven on or graded to much because the compaction will stop the tree's growing and implications to contamination of the ground water....bit hard to do this as the area was a hill before and to not drive/compact the soil is an impossability.... as they admited this is the first time in australia there method was tried,but instead of trying in a small pocket first they layed the first three layers of gavel /dirt over the whole area and stopped work when they realised it won't work. so the ground water can still be contaminated and a lot of the grasses and tree's won't grow...cost so far to rate payer over$250,000 for using us as a test case and they still got payed as well....no come back to them and the ratepayer cop's their incompetence... this unfortunatley is the future of australian business.......

 

[trainspotter]

Close your eyes Trainspotter can't you see me in a loincloth fashioned from a couple of old car chammys faning you as laybabout the pool producing endless cold Bintangs and some stodgy nasi on the side.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm NOPE. I prefer Corona and Babi guling. Loincloth to be replaced with boardies and you are in.

breaker - never been there would be worried about drugs being planted on me
must go and have a look ,ya reckon its really better,I would like to get lost up in the cape somewhere

No problem over there as you land in Slingapore first - hire a mule to take the drugs to Batam for you on the high speed ferry

Batam = Singapore efficiency with a Bali lifestyle. Huge amount of potential as the Singos have just about filled their island so they are expanding across the strait.

 

[sails]

sails who,d have thought 20 years no 10 years ago a poof and an atheist and de facto would be running the country, I hope we never become a republic

Yes, I agree. I have been out driving grandchildren to various places this morning (please note Starcraftmazter that we actually care about their future too) and I was thinking along a similar line, Breaker.

My thoughts were that we have a spinster with no children and a poof (where I cannot find any reference to children from previous relationships) running our country at the moment. How can they possibly understand what it's like to feel major concern for grandchildren's future?

And I wish all you young ones who are giving votes to the greens good luck if you have families of your own one day and then wake up to what you have done to the country.

The younger ones would not remember the Whitlam debacles. Keating and Hawke were more moderate, but this Gillard/Brown combo will probably go down in the history books as the worst government ever in Australian history. I certainly hope, for Australia's sake, that no other government gets to break their dubious record.


PS Breaker - any chance of getting your chicken to stay still? It's very distracting while trying to read your posts...

 

[Julia]

Starcraft...., maybe revisit this thread in about ten years when you've actually had some experience in the real world.
You might find you have some real experience from which to form relevant opinions instead of regurgitating the stuff with which you're indoctrinated in university.

I'm curious to know in what field you plan to have a career?

 

[breaker]

chicken is so happy live export is back on
Starcraft,wait till they make homosexuality compulsary.

 

[disarray]

I find that younger people tend to put significantly more emphasis on what they have been indoctrinated in, have expended considerable emotional and financial investment in these views.....Older people tend to be more circumspect, willing to listen to pros and cons and come to an "on balance" view.

If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.

 

[noco]

Ahhh, but we do care. Many of us have grandchildren for whom we care very much. We want to leave an Australia for them to call home, a place where they can get work and enjoy life without the interruptions of dictatorial type governments. It would be entirely selfish to not fight for their future.

And, don't you realise we were also young once but perhaps have become wiser with the years? We have witnessed many of life's cycles including weather and politics to know that much of what the greens want is not going to be good for Australia. It's a shame that young people are so brainwashed at schools and universities and then want to implement these seemingly warm and fuzzy policies without the life's experiences behind them.

Were you never taught to think for yourself, or have you just swallowed the greenie untested policies line hook, line and sinker?

Well written Sails and congratulations. The youth of today are well and truly being brainwashed.
No doubt these are some of the youths who will go out of their way to interupt free speech given by some who differ in opinion.

 

[sails]

If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.

Well said, Disarray...

And thanks Noco - I get quite frustrated with these young ones still wet behind the ears and are somewhat brainwashed into thinking they have life all sorted out when, in reality, they have seen very little of the cycles which life dishes up.

I think the voting age should be lifted to about 30... By then, they might have families of their own and understand that life isn't about warm and fuzzy theories, but it's about working out budgets to keep the young family afloat - lots of sacrifices come into play when one has children and seems to change one's perspectives on life in general.

 

[DB008]

I find that younger people tend to put significantly more emphasis on what they have been indoctrinated in, have expended considerable emotional and financial investment in these views.

Climate change for example: It is very difficult for them to realize that the planet does not need saving (from anthropogenic climate change at least) after they have devoted the first part of their lives to that belief. (Although it is interesting that most are content to preach about the evils of co2 and not actually do anything about it in their own lifestyles)

Older people tend to be more circumspect, willing to listen to pros and cons and come to an "on balance" view.

There are the short term profiteers who disregard the future, but in my experience these come from every age group.

Spot on wayneL!
The majority of people that l speak to who are in the 20-35 year bracket all support the 'Greens'.

I then ask them, 'why'?
80% reply with Global Warming.

I then ask, 'Have you seen the movie, 'The Inconvenient Truth?'
Of the 80% that have answered yes above, 90% say 'Yes, they have seen the film.'

Sheep/herd mentality going on with that age bracket or at uni me thinks.

(I am in that age group)

 

[overhang]

sails who,d have thought 20 years no 10 years ago a poof and an atheist and de facto would be running the country, I hope we never become a republic

You mean a realist? So you believe in unicorns and fairies and you end up in ward 9 but believe in a god and your fit to govern the country, with this logic Australia isn't doomed... the whole world is.

Yes, I agree. I have been out driving grandchildren to various places this morning (please note Starcraftmazter that we actually care about their future too) and I was thinking along a similar line, Breaker.

My thoughts were that we have a spinster with no children and a poof (where I cannot find any reference to children from previous relationships) running our country at the moment. How can they possibly understand what it's like to feel major concern for grandchildren's future?

And I wish all you young ones who are giving votes to the greens good luck if you have families of your own one day and then wake up to what you have done to the country.

The younger ones would not remember the Whitlam debacles. Keating and Hawke were more moderate, but this Gillard/Brown combo will probably go down in the history books as the worst government ever in Australian history. I certainly hope, for Australia's sake, that no other government gets to break their dubious record.


PS Breaker - any chance of getting your chicken to stay still? It's very distracting while trying to read your posts...

So wait now you need to be a parent to comprehend the future? You don't think that it's parents that make these stupid irrational decisions with the sole reason to "save the children". You don't see a problem that the political reasoning for a carbon tax, internet filter, plain label cigarette packaging, alcopop tax and so on is all to "save the children". It's the parents turning us into an nanny state acting on their emotions rather than fundamental decisions, parents are the most manipulable voters out there. There is a reason "working families" is used in almost every Gillard speech, because its dam effective.

All though I do think that there is a bigger proportion of generation Y that support a carbon tax than any other generation I don't believe it to be the majority by any means.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

we here in our town import philipinos who dont worry about public holidays, overtime or any of the other BS designed to bring down small business

This "BS designed to bring down small business" is actually referred to work-life balance and compensation for sacrifices endured during rest time. It is unfortunate that it is allowed to bring in migrants who do not care about such things, as the inevitable result is that quality of life goes down for the workforce as a whole.

Quality of life is the number one priority above all else.

Climate change for example: It is very difficult for them to realize that the planet does not need saving (from anthropogenic climate change at least) after they have devoted the first part of their lives to that belief. (Although it is interesting that most are content to preach about the evils of co2 and not actually do anything about it in their own lifestyles)

Indoctrinated by who exactly?

I certainly don't remember anyone indoctrinating me. Not my parents (and if the majority doesn't support significant action towards global warming then that can be said about most parents?), and I don't recall learning much about the climate in schools - not to say they don't mention global warming, I actually do not remember - but either way, I doubt it's significance.

Older people tend to be more circumspect, willing to listen to pros and cons and come to an "on balance" view.

Possibly. There are some situations that call for this, and some do not.


One argument which I liked (this was before GFC to put in context), is that the worst depression which could potentially be brought on by serious action on global warming is much better than the worst depression and to some extent the extermination of a vast proportion of species that would be brought on by global warming in the event of inadequate action.

Personally, as bad as it may make things (though I to a large extent question just how bad it would be), I do not fear the idea of creating a better world, even if it will be found to have been unnecessary for the explicit purpose of addressing global warming, nobody can argue that it is pointless to create a better world, nor that sacrifice isn't justifiable in doing so.

It's a shame that young people are so brainwashed at schools and universities and then want to implement these seemingly warm and fuzzy policies without the life's experiences behind them.

Were you never taught to think for yourself, or have you just swallowed the greenie untested policies line hook, line and sinker?

To the contrary, I make my own decisions, and I reject the notion of having "beliefs". The way I look at world is; either I know something as a certainly, or I am unsure about the subject matter.

To take global warming, I have gone through more than enough scientific evidence to prove to myself beyond reasonable doubt that it is quite real. On the flip side, I can say the same about a lot of things which are not taught in schools, and which are not popular notions. For someone to accuse me or my generation or people similar to me as not being able to think for ourselves is quite laughable by my reckoning. I am often one to critisise almost everyone else for not thinking about matters themselves, and blindly accepting what others tell them; be it the government, the privately owned news, the standard model of physics, or old Jones down the street.

Starcraft...., maybe revisit this thread in about ten years when you've actually had some experience in the real world.
You might find you have some real experience from which to form relevant opinions instead of regurgitating the stuff with which you're indoctrinated in university.

I'm curious to know in what field you plan to have a career?

I'm sorry to call you out on this, but you have actually made a really stupid and baseless series of assumptions.

I have taken no courses at university dealing with any issues of environment, climate, economics, politics, or anything discussed in this thread.

The only courses I have ever taken apart from Mathematics, Engineering and Science (relating to computers) are on modern history and reasoning & philosophy (neither of which relate to issues discussed in this thread). Further, I was never part of any student organisation (in particular any environmental or left-wing organisation).

So for you to make any claim of;

regurgitating the stuff with which you're indoctrinated in university

Is quite ridiculous and blind-sighted, unless we are talking about deeply technical computing (or mathematical) matters. I await to see what you have to say to my reply, and whether you are willing to admit how wrong it was for you to jump to such conclusions as you have in regards to what I have learned at university. I find your assumptions to be common among far-right wing people, who like to spout nonsense along the lines of "herp derp liberals bull!@#$ learned from other liberals derp" - as to imply nobody except people of your political and economic beliefs are capable of independent research and critical thinking.

The field is Engineering, Software Engineering specifically.


I do hope I'm not coming off as too strong, but I do seek to match the level of arrogance that I am met with

I am of course open to debate, but thus far all I hear is "bla bla bla you must have these 'beliefs' because somebody else taught you to think this way - because nobody intelligent can have an opinion different to mine".

This is rather disappointing. If you have a concern that younger people do not understand important matters on the same level as you do (which is not an invalid claim in itself), then I would imagine you would equally concern yourself with trying to objectively teach them what you know and the reasoning behind your opinions, rather than simply dismissing them.


Unless of course you do not consider this worth your while, in which case I don't consider you have a right to complain about people with different opinions than your own, even though you may look down on them.

 

[breaker]

wow starcraft who helped you with that? Dad

 

[Starcraftmazter]

wow starcraft who helped you with that? Dad

Are you for real?

PS. Found the image I wanted

But of course, feel free to reply with "baaaah you don't know what you're talking about you're not old, you were indoctrinated at university somehow by studying completely irrelevant things baaaaah".

 

[breaker]

Stargazer ,very commendable, but we have all been young once and have fell into the traps you have. As you get older and run your own business you will find that the people in charge are not in touch with the real world ,we cant keep having long weekends for the first six months of the year with every one on full pay, our lifstyle is to extravagent to sustain. People from other countrys do not feel its their right to rob the boss.
And it is not us making this nanny nation its them stupid bastards you voted for.

 

[Logique]

...Batam = Singapore efficiency with a Bali lifestyle. Huge amount of potential as the Singos have just about filled their island so they are expanding across the strait.

Joe, within the structure of ASF could you reassure us that Traino hasn't been pushed aside, with the consolation prize of an ambassadorship? Sure, he'd do a sound job of running the ASF Consulate in Batam, but will he be lost from day to day business? I mean is he really needed over there, are there any trains that need spotting?

 

[Knobby22]

Stargazer ,very commendable, but we have all been young once and have fell into the traps you have. As you get older and run your own business you will find that the people in charge are not in touch with the real world ,we cant keep having long weekends for the first six months of the year with every one on full pay, our lifstyle is to extravagent to sustain. People from other countrys do not feel its their right to rob the boss.
And it is not us making this nanny nation its them stupid bastards you voted for.

What a load of tosh, a load of condescending twaddle, and I am talking to the others in this trhread also.

The problem is that some of you elderly people have become fixed in your views, unable to way issues and willing to be drip fed by the media organisations catering to your biases so your views don't get challenged. Give em hell Starcraftmazter, they have no great hold on wisdom.

And for that stupid saying that people get wisdom by becoming right wing in their old age, I used to be right but now I have gone to the centre and as a gen Y so I suppose that means I am a complete retard.