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Where in the hell is Australia heading?

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SCM, many years ago Dale Carnegie wrote the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People". It has been followed by many more by various authors, all aiming to assist those individuals, who have the unfortunate trait of exhibiting quite extraordinary arrogant rudeness in their dealings with others, to become reasonable human beings.

I suspect Mr Carnegie may have had someone like you in mind when he divined the need for such advice.
 
It is simply a fact that any company (especially manufacturing industries) affected will be almost 100% compensated. It just doesn't make any difference. I am not putting up with stupid scaremongering.

Either provide research to base your evidence around or don't make stupid claims.
 
startrader said:
Starcraftmaster, it is a complete waste of time responding to you - what you write is absolute rubbish.
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Yes I agree. Comrades, and that includes JU-LIAR and that Brown t<*d, all stick together with the same propaganda and lies and if you don't agree with them, you are negative or scaremongering.

This Green/Labor socialist left wing government are all brian washed with the same boring repetitive lines and who are the greatest scaremongers of all times.

If you don't have a carbon (dioxide) tax to change the climate or stop global warming :-

a) the rains will stop coming and Brisbane,Sydney and Melbourne will all run out of water by 2009.

b) the The Great Barrier Reef will be distroyed and by the time our children and grandchildren grow up it will be all gone.

c) Flannery says, the North Pole will melt and the seas will rise to the height of an 8 story building on the Gold Coast.

I won't add any more. The majority of sane people on this forum really do know what scaremongering is, except SCM.
 
The funny or not so funny part is when I reply to Star gazer or any one else I'm the the bigot. but lefty greenies fabians can say what they like [ not allowed to use commie poof]
 

And do you know why they are being compensated star?
What position does manufacturing in Australia take regarding the carbon tax?
Honestly you dribble some crap through your posts with your own stupid claims.
 

What I really like about you starcraftmazter, is no matter what proof or valid argument anybody puts forward, you just say no thats not right. You never substantiate anything you say, just knock any argument others put forward, it is quite a good passive agressive approach.
Labor have been trying it for the last 12months, since their absolute incompetence precluded them from using their track record as an argument to support their debate.
I certainly hope the tactic stands you in better stead than it has them, however by peoples responses, I feel you are going the same path. LOL
 

Indeed
 
Would'nt it be bad to have no freind's
But wait would'nt it be terrible to have no freinds on a web forum
Oh well it's not like ya know em or anything
 
breaker said:
Would'nt it be bad to have no freind's
But wait would'nt it be terrible to have no freinds on a web forum
Oh well it's not like ya know em or anything
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Hey breaker, I hope you don't think I am paying out or trying to discourage starcraftmazter, far from it. He is one of the few active pro government posters on the forum and keeps the threads interesting and active.
The only thing that annoys me is, when you put forward the many reasons why a carbon tax will add unsupportable costs to an already stuggling manufacturing base.
Rather than debate that issue, he throws in responses like "how do you make them clean without a tax". When he could debate the ways that the implementation of a tax is going to improve our manufacturing and therefore jobs outlook.
You also have to put in context this is the person who thinks the older population should fund their retirement, but after they have funded N.B.N to his office.LOL
 
Looking at just one local manufacturer whose operations I understand quite well:

They use electricity, but nowhere near enough of it to be a "big polluter" since their overall scale of operations is modest. They are simply paying government-regulated tariffs for their electricity.

Do you honestly think we're going to see two sets of commercial power tariffs for smaller consumers? One for manufacturing, and another for everything else? What happens in the numerous instances where the factory and office is the same building?

They also use sea, rail and road transport since some of their components are imported. Will the electricity used by the wharf cranes be carbon tax exempt when unloading goods destined for an Australian manufacturer? Likewise how will the railways pay tax on energy when some of the containers they are carrying are (according to your theory) going to be exempt?

And on I could go... The carbon tax goes right throughout the economy and there's no practical means to exempt any industry or company unless it really is a top 500 company that can afford an army of accountants to process all the paperwork. And even there, I dare say the company (not government) will end up having to pay all those accoutants.

There's also the point about new, as opposed to existing, operations which seems to be ignored in this debate. Suppose that I propose in 2015 to build a new factory and have a choice of any country in which to locate it. What proportion of my emissions will be compensated by government if I locate it in Australia? And how does this compare to other countries? That's the really important question since businesses come and go - either we establish new ones or within a few years we'll be stuffed.
 
Also if the carbon tax costs $520 a year per household and that is modelled on full employment(apparently all jobs lost will be replaced by new renewable jobs cough).
How much will it cost per household if unemployment goes to 10% and the compensation has to be payed to those that are now unemployed.
What would the resultant cost to the working taxpayers be. Can anyone run those numbers through the model, please.
 
moXJO said:
And do you know why they are being compensated star?
What position does manufacturing in Australia take regarding the carbon tax?
Honestly you dribble some crap through your posts with your own stupid claims.
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Speak for yourself. The "carbon tax" won't be in effect for almost a year. Between now and then manufacturing will shed a massive amount of jobs, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the "carbon tax" - rather the Australian dollar and the noncompetitive nature of our manufacturers.

Look at Bluescope, they gave half a dozen reasons for their layoffs - and not one of them had anything to do with any "carbon tax".

So like you said - you sure do dribble some crap in your posts. Why not try and understand the topic you are discussing?

sptrawler said:
He is one of the few active pro government posters on the forum and keeps the threads interesting and active.
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I am not pro government. This is yet another example of your ignorance and inability to understand anything.


This is 110% irrelevant - one cent of appreciation of our currency against the USD has far greater effects than any "carbon tax". You are completely misunderstanding the problem with manufacturing and putting all the blame to something which won't be in effect until far into the future, while the problems that exist in manufacturing are caused by far greater problems which have been building for decades.


Honestly, some people on these forums amaze me.

Price of labor? Irrelevant!
Lack of investment in better manufacturing technologies? Irrelevant!
Exchange rates & exchange rate manipulation by competitors? Irrelevant!
Protectionist policies of export markets? Irrelevant!
High input costs? Irrelevant!
Noncompetitive industry? Irrelevant!

It MUST be this new insignificant and almost entirely subsidised cost that will happen at some time next year which has zero affect now, yet the industry is already shedding jobs for some reason


Don't quit your day job guys - seriously.
 
Starcraftmazter said:
...Don't quit your day job guys - seriously.
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And do you actually think anyone is taking your political propaganda seriously?...

Latest newspoll has Labor back down at 27% of primary vote. Only rusted on labor supporters and those who might profit somehow by way of a cushy public service job or by way of investments that would do well with a carbon tax would likely make up that 27%.

Even if you add in the 14% of green primary vote, that still leaves 59% of primary votes who do not want this rubbish and it seems these people are no longer listening to the nonsense political propaganda.

Anyway, waste your time and type away...
 
Australia is headed into a sea of Liberal propagating and revenue busting on a fragile economy that needs supporters and not leeches.

We cannot sow dollar coins into the atmosphere; however we can sow the seeds of hope. The encouragment of todays generation to seek clean alternatives and the funding for research into such a field is half the race run. Next you need people to listen.

A Doco comes to mind, "Who killed the Electric car?".

Can anyone imagine what a sudden rejection of current energy sources would do to the worlds economy? No wonder there are several theories rampant that clean energy patents are held and never released. This society is not ready for such a change.
 
Not all our manufacturers are uncompetitive, and it is largely the highly energy intensive ones that ARE competitive.

For aluminium smelting, a $25 per tonne carbon tax represents about a 15% increase in total production costs for the refined metal. And it represents an even larger increase in the production cost of actual smelting (as distinct from simply selling the ore to someone else).

It's a no brainer that these industries will head overseas, especially if the carbon price is allowed to rise in future years as forecast.
 

Way to answer a question I didn't ask
 

New Trade.
Could I ask one question please?
How do you charge a electric car.? and from what?
Comment on change. Re.. the Carbon tax! I have never see the words compiled yet, that explains how it reduces global warning.
I have read a lot, but have not seen a report from Julia Gillard to accurately explain it, and how it actually works.
joea
joea
 
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