Where in the hell is Australia heading?

[sptrawler]

That's because you are incapable of not generalising. It's ok, there are steps to recovery...



Okey, now please explain how exactly they are supposed to make money without an ETS when coal electricity is cheaper? Further, please prove why your proposed massive cost to taxpayers for building said power plants is cheaper than a once off inflationary effect of the ETS.

This is supposed to be a forum for investors, but it seems like many people here have no idea about basic economics

Also, maybe the majority don't mind burning coal at this point in time. Just because YOU, Bob and Julia don't doesn't make you right. It's not all about you.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

Two negatives make a positive....

Either you have a poor understanding of English or I have no idea what you are on about.

The people here clearly have far more common sense than you have the brains to recognise. One doesn't have to be a scientist or an economist to know when politicians are trying to be dishonest and mislead with partial truths.

Sure. Blame both sides for middle income welfare. Blame them for the housing bubble. Blame them for the welfare state in general. Blame them for the lack of a SWF. Blame them for corporate donations. Blame them for populist policies. Blame them for a lot of things. All this however does not relate to the necessity for action on global warming.

But it is strange how propaganda people like you are popping up all over various forums with an aim to put down anyone who doesn't agree with this government.

I find it stranger that people like you pretend to know what people like me think. I am no supporter of any government, I assess each matter independently from the next.

It's also highly hypocritical that you claim people who disagree with you are propagandists.

The plan of attack seems to be:

Attack Abbott

• Get Turnbull back into coalition leadership seemingly for a weaker coalition
• Attack Murdoch to gain public support for politically controlled media
• Treat people like idots who don't want carbon pricing or ETS
• Treat people like idots who don't like the Malaysian deal
• Treat people like idots who would like a new election to stop this awful minority
• Treat people like idots who don't want our children being brain washed in primacy school with political propaganda

So basically a whole lot of generalisations. For the record I do wholeheartedely dislike Abbott. He is a complete twat without any brain capacity to make any policy. Like a fool, he has a ridiculous near 2 million $ mortgagte, and the only thing he will do if he ever gets into power is use every inch of his political capital to prop up our ponzi scheme of a housing bubble.

That is selective quoting, maybe you could have added the rest of my qoute where I said it was pie in the sky, but that wouldn't have helped with your cheap shot would it?

There was nothing in your post that was relevant? Likewise this entire post of yours is a mindless rant, and you did not at all address my question of how your "brilliant" plan for the government to build renewable energy plans and privatitise them when the cost of electricity they generate is noncompetitive can work without an ETS?

All I see is a whole lot of rants from you but nothing of substance.

Also, maybe the majority don't mind burning coal at this point in time. Just because YOU, Bob and Julia don't doesn't make you right. It's not all about you.

"The majority" are very stupid and short sighted. If the only thing our government achieves is to go against this and actually address our greenhouse emissions, I will be pretty happy.

 

[sails]

Either you have a poor understanding of English or I have no idea what you are on about.

Really - you don't know? Your second guess is the right one. Were you only brain washed in political propaganda and don't learn English grammar?
You might learn something from this from Wiki: Two negatives resolving to a positive

Sure. Blame both sides for middle income welfare. Blame them for the housing bubble. Blame them for the welfare state in general. Blame them for the lack of a SWF. Blame them for corporate donations. Blame them for populist policies. Blame them for a lot of things. All this however does not relate to the necessity for action on global warming.

Blah blah blah - any excuse to plaster your PROPAGANDA over this forum. Clearly you mainly learned political propaganda at school.

I find it stranger that people like you pretend to know what people like me think. I am no supporter of any government, I assess each matter independently from the next.

It's also highly hypocritical that you claim people who disagree with you are propagandists.

You can say whatever you like on a forum and there's no way of proving anything. And why should anyone believe you when your posts are SO FULL of nonsense PROPAGANDA and put downs to other posters. I could tell you I bought a thousand puts yesterday - how can you prove it? But then you might not know what a put is anyway...

And, I have had many conversations and REASONED debate with many who hold differing political opinions to my own. But the propaganda plants stand out like a sore thumb. You have been by far the most obvious. There are others like you on forums other than ASF and they are easily recognised.

Whatever else you do is not important. The more likely fact is that you are possibly a trained in propaganda, imo.

So basically a whole lot of generalisations. For the record I do wholeheartedely dislike Abbott. He is a complete twat without any brain capacity to make any policy. Like a fool, he has a ridiculous near 2 million $ mortgagte, and the only thing he will do if he ever gets into power is use every inch of his political capital to prop up our ponzi scheme of a housing bubble.

Anti Abbott PROPAGANDA... Abbott must be doing a fantastic job to require people like yourself to keep knocking him most likely in an effort to deflect from the unbelievably bad policies dreamed up by Gillard.

There was nothing in your post that was relevant? Likewise this entire post of yours is a mindless rant, and you did not at all address my question of how your "brilliant" plan for the government to build renewable energy plans and privatitise them when the cost of electricity they generate is noncompetitive can work without an ETS?

ETS PROPAGANDA...

"The majority" are very stupid and short sighted. If the only thing our government achieves is to go against this and actually address our greenhouse emissions, I will be pretty happy.

More ETS PROPAGANDA and indicating everyone is stupid but the minority opinion that you hold. You are incredibly outnumbered in recent opinion polls. You sound like the person who said the whole world is mad but me...

All I see is a whole lot of rants from you but nothing of substance.

And your entire post is nothing of substance. Mostly PROPAGANDA


Now be a good little boy and go and learn some English grammar. Then you might be able to get a real job.

 

[sptrawler]

There was nothing in your post that was relevant? Likewise this entire post of yours is a mindless rant, and you did not at all address my question of how your "brilliant" plan for the government to build renewable energy plans and privatitise them when the cost of electricity they generate is noncompetitive can work without an ETS?

As I said before the very idea of building the renewable energy power stations was made in jest. I think the idea is stupid as does the majority of voters. The ETS will end up in the government coffers and be wasted as has the $130B since this government came to office.
End of story

 

[Glen48]

Where is Aust heading the same way as UK with riots and blood in the streets with in a few years maybe sooner. Gillard and Obama are doing the same thing no idea about what's going on in the World and no plans to solve the problem because in their eyes there are no problem's just a minor hiccup.

Soon USA banks will be forcing people to turn up for a wheel barrow full of cash as Big Ben forces the bank to shovel money out the door or risk fines.

They will do anything and every thing to pump money into the USA economy and if you bank account shows show a nice credit you will fined for not spending.

The money printing has not started in full yet but soon will as the Dow tank each day.

 

[DB008]

...
For the record I do wholeheartedely dislike Abbott. He is a complete twat without any brain capacity to make any policy.

Please pass those words of wisdom on to Gillard and Co that "They" are beyond hopeless!

Labor has been in power since 2007, please supply a list of what they have achieved....

 

[Starcraftmazter]

Really - you don't know? Your second guess is the right one. Were you only brain washed in political propaganda and don't learn English grammar?
You might learn something from this from Wiki: Two negatives resolving to a positive

Let me show you the quote again;
"That's because you are incapable of not generalising".

I don't know what your English skills are, and what you think I meant, but I am going to re-affirm that reads as it should. You are incapable of not generalising. That is, you are not capable of saying things which are not generalisations.

Looks like you need some of this school "indoctrination", especially in the English language.

herp derp propaganda

I may as well be talking to a wall.

As I said before the very idea of building the renewable energy power stations was made in jest. I think the idea is stupid as does the majority of voters. End of story

So you suggested an idea which you think is bad? Ok. Also, you do not represent nor speak for any proportion of voters.

Labor has been in power since 2007, please supply a list of what they have achieved....

There's obviously a lot of things, and different people may appreciate different ones. For me the big ones are;
- NBN (key infrastructure needed for business, will provide cutting edge services to rural towns, and help in the de-centralisation of cities)
- ETS (key policy for addressing global warming)
- Tightens immigration standards (because I don't like immigrants who come here without much purpose, and can't even speak English)
- Against population increase (preserves quality of living for present occupants of our country)


If Gillard/Swan don't stimulate the housing market (or at least much), I'd be more than happy to sing praise for their current term. In fact they are now talking about having seniors sell their houses, which is excellent. All retirees should be forced to sell all their property before they are eligible to receive any pension payments.

 

[drsmith]

All retirees should be forced to sell all their property before they are eligible to receive any pension payments.

Brilliant!

They could live in the street on a park bench.

They would not need a pension too long living that way.

Now, how do I avoid getting old ?

 

[Starcraftmazter]

They could live in the street on a park bench.

They would not need a pension too long living that way.

Downgrade to low-maintenance, low-cost retiree housing, free up housing supply for young families.

There is no reason the government should pay pensioners any money if they are capable of sustaining themselves through selling their assets. Indeed, this is impossible and unsustainable. It's all about what's best for society.

 

[drsmith]

To me, someone who has spent their working life paying taxes has the right to live out their retirement in the comfort of their own home.

These are people who have spent their lives contributing to society as a whole, not cattle ready for the knackery.

 

[Julia]

There's obviously a lot of things, and different people may appreciate different ones. For me the big ones are;
- NBN (key infrastructure needed for business, will provide cutting edge services to rural towns, and help in the de-centralisation of cities)

Dannyboy stipulated "that they HAVE achieved". You absolutely cannot claim that the NBN is anywhere approaching being achieved.

- ETS (key policy for addressing global warming)

Same objection. They have not instituted an ETS. They have proposed a carbon tax which is not the same thing and which has yet to get through the parliament.

- Tightens immigration standards (because I don't like immigrants who come here without much purpose, and can't even speak English)

Hah, what a joke! They loosened the previously successful policy and are now back pedaling frantically (albeit unsuccessfully) to reverse their disastrous change in policy.

- Against population increase (preserves quality of living for present occupants of our country)

Ah, that will be why we get to send 800 (if the high court doesn't veto this) so Malaysia can send us 4000.

In fact they are now talking about having seniors sell their houses, which is excellent. All retirees should be forced to sell all their property before they are eligible to receive any pension payments.

What absolute rubbish. All that is being discussed is a report from the Productivity Commission which suggests research should be carried out into having those people requiring aged care access some of the equity in their homes, to a maximum of $60,000.
There is absolutely no suggestion that retirees will be 'forced to sell all their property before they are eligible to receive any pension payments".

Get some facts before you make such ludicrous statements.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

To me, someone who has spent their working life paying taxes has the right to live out their retirement in the comfort of their own home.

These are people who have spent their lives contributing to society as a whole, not cattle ready for the knackery.

I don't disagree - and if they have the money, sure.

But otherwise it's a simple matter of resources, energy, economics. We cannot have a massive retiree population surviving by the hard work others, in the smallest ratio in history. It just won't happen.

Dannyboy stipulated "that they HAVE achieved". You absolutely cannot claim that the NBN is anywhere approaching being achieved.

It is a long-term infrastructure project. Every major project should be long-term, this way it provides jobs and growth over a longer time-span. It is also a very big project, and cannot be done in a year or two.

Same objection. They have not instituted an ETS. They have proposed a carbon tax which is not the same thing and which has yet to get through the parliament.

I disagree with your assessment.

Hah, what a joke! They loosened the previously successful policy and are now back pedaling frantically (albeit unsuccessfully) to reverse their disastrous change in policy.

Not really, record amounts of immigrants came in under Howard, less will come in under ALP's new policy.

Ah, that will be why we get to send 800 (if the high court doesn't veto this) so Malaysia can send us 4000.

Don't see why this is relevant. If 3200 is the amount of people that will be added to our population than that would be pretty terrific. However in reality it is a drop of water in a lake.

What absolute rubbish. All that is being discussed is a report from the Productivity Commission which suggests research should be carried out into having those people requiring aged care access some of the equity in their homes, to a maximum of $60,000.
There is absolutely no suggestion that retirees will be 'forced to sell all their property before they are eligible to receive any pension payments".

It's the beginning of a policy which I expect will lead to that in the coming one or two decade as baby boomer retirement becomes more of a social and economic issue.

 

[DB008]

For me the big ones are;

- NBN (key infrastructure needed for business, will provide cutting edge services to rural towns, and help in the de-centralisation of cities) Debatable and the total cost will easily exceed the Governments original $40-$50 Billion estimate.

- ETS (key policy for addressing global warming) - And we will make a HUGE difference in reducing CO2 emissions while China and USA do nothing. Renewable technology is too expensive and can't handle base power loads.

- Tightens immigration standards (because I don't like immigrants who come here without much purpose, and can't even speak English) - And the Christmas Island debarcle that is happening right NOW? The Government dismantled a working policy, and totally stuffed it up. See chart below.

- Against population increase (preserves quality of living for present occupants of our country) - You clearly have no idea what you are talking about! Look at Germany, 4 times the population and high standard of living!

I don't know what to say...Your living on another planet with your own little fascist view on life. Sad to see a younger person which such arrogance and negative view on the world, and this is coming from someone who is similar in age.

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bn/sp/boatarrivals.htm

 

[startrader]

....

There's obviously a lot of things, and different people may appreciate different ones. For me the big ones are;
- NBN (key infrastructure needed for business, will provide cutting edge services to rural towns, and help in the de-centralisation of cities)
- ETS (key policy for addressing global warming)
- Tightens immigration standards (because I don't like immigrants who come here without much purpose, and can't even speak English)
- Against population increase (preserves quality of living for present occupants of our country)

You really can't be serious about this. We have had record levels of immigration under the Labor government after Rudd got into power. He said he believes in a BIG AUSTRALIA. Julia may SAY she doesn't want large immigration numbers but that's just talk.

 

[disarray]

To me, someone who has spent their working life paying taxes has the right to live out their retirement in the comfort of their own home.

if they can support themselves, sure. otherwise what about the rights of young people to not have to pay for a burgeoning elderly class?

 

[sptrawler]

It's funny the baby boomers supported their parents and most I know have, and still are helping their 20 - 40 year old kids.
But listen to the Gen Y kids "why should I support anybody, its all about me".
I can see why the government doesn't want the baby boomers to retire, they are the only ones who do a decent days work without bitching and crying.LOL

 

[disarray]

needs more generalisation sptrawler

 

[Julia]

To me, someone who has spent their working life paying taxes has the right to live out their retirement in the comfort of their own home.

if they can support themselves, sure. otherwise what about the rights of young people to not have to pay for a burgeoning elderly class?

Haven't we always paid for the generation that preceded us? e.g. the baby boomers are presently paying for those that are already retired. The baby boomers will be the first generation to at least make a reasonable contribution to their own retirement.

However, I do agree that there should be no valid reason why the principle that all our lives we pay for our own accommodation and other needs should not continue into retirement, hence compulsory Super.

It's apparently much cheaper to provide additional services to keep the aged in their own homes so this seems a more positive alternative all round than shoving people into nursing homes which they hate.

Whenever we have this discussion, I do have to admit to a bit of resentment that once again it's those of us who have been prudent, saved and generally taken responsibility for ourselves who receive the least. I'm not saying everyone who is not self supporting has failed to try to do this, but there sure as hell are plenty who have spent on whatever they desired throughout their lives in the absolute presumption that the taxpayer will look after them in old age. And thus far, yes, the taxpayer does.

It's funny the baby boomers supported their parents and most I know have, and still are helping their 20 - 40 year old kids.
But listen to the Gen Y kids "why should I support anybody, its all about me".
I can see why the government doesn't want the baby boomers to retire, they are the only ones who do a decent days work without bitching and crying.LOL

needs more generalisation sptrawler

So funny, disarray. (Though I do agree with sptrawler).

 

[sptrawler]

needs more generalisation sptrawler

Why did I miss someone? lol

 

[moXJO]

if they can support themselves, sure. otherwise what about the rights of young people to not have to pay for a burgeoning elderly class?

Probably the same reason I have to pay for young able bodied bludgers that have contributed nothing to society and sit on their ass because
"That jobs just not for me/ to far away/ not what I want to do"

Umm where's my rights not to pay disarray Come on throw me a bone here. Gen x is always left out