What would you do?

[Julia]

I have no skills in DIY so always pay someone to do even small jobs like painting skirting boards.
This needed to be done in one hallway and one bedroom. From past experience max of about one hour's work.

I've had other small jobs done by a general home handyman which have been satisfactory and the charge reasonable. One of these involved painting of narrow strip of timber inserted where new oven was slightly smaller than old one and it was OK.

So I asked him to do the skirting boards. Usually I get a quote for completed job, never accept being charged by the hour, but thought it unnecessary in this instance. Well, wrong.

(I'd obtained the paint by taking small residue of previous colour into paint shop and asking for the same again.
The bloke there said he didn't think that would come out correctly as he thought there was a residue of tint in the bottom of the can which had not been properly mixed in. Suggested therefore more of the colour be added.
I accepted his advice. What do I know? Nothing about paint.)

OK, the 'painter' appears on time and proceeds to apply masking tape. I'd never before seen any professional painter use this and had a bit of concern, then reassured myself he was just being especially careful.
An hour and a half later the painting still had not been started! (Amongst this time, he spent about 20 minutes standing outside talking to his wife.)

When the paint finally started to go on, I had misgivings about the colour which was supposed to match the existing paint around the door frames. The new one looked too strongly coloured. I said this, and he said "oh it will be just right when it dries". OK. Again what do I know!

Anyway result is hideous. The colour is completely wrong, so the paint shop employee's suggestion wasn't valid, and the original recipe was correct. It has been applied far too thickly, so it has pooled in dozens of places at the base, bleeding onto the tiles and the grout.

I have to get a real painter to fix it up. This will cost quite a bit as it's painstaking work using a blade to carefully remove the excess at the base, sand it down and apply two coats to cover the too dark colour.

I have an invoice from the original person for $165: $50 per hour Plus GST

I will absolutely not be paying this amount.
I'd appreciate members' opinions as to whether I should pay any of it.

With thanks.

I omitted to mention that he left two large smears of paint on an expensive piece of dark stained furniture and on a door handle.
The furniture maker has come to the rescue and removed most of the paint on his work, but a couple of small bits have soaked into the grain and cannot be removed.

 

[dutchie]

I am afraid to say that you should pay his bill (buyer beware). In hindsight you should have written down a little contract so that you both know what to expect (quality of work, estimate of cost, hourly rate, payment of account etc).

As for the paint shop advise you should ask to speak to the owner and explain that you were disappointed in the advice you got. See what he/she says. Don't go back if he /she is unresponsive.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I would put in writing to him your concerns with his work when you have calmed down.

e.g. His time spent on the phone for which you were charged, the paint on the furniture and door, the ooze etc.

Your choice of paint was not his doing, so leave that out, even if he offered an opinion on the likely outcome.

I am no Renoir, but I probably would have used masking tape.

Ask him for an amended bill.

Don't mention an amount at this stage.

Do not contact him when you are mad as hell.

gg

 

[CanOz]

I would explain in detail as you have here, perhaps in writing, your issues with the job. Suggest that you expect the job to be finished to YOUR expectations BEFORE you will be paying OR you will be looking for another tradesman to do the job correctly if they are not capable and you will not be paying them for the job in that case.

To me, i think one needs to give them a chance to fix their mistakes, a choice.

Good luck!

CanOz

 

[tech/a]

Have you taken Photos Julia?

The job is sub standard to the point of being totally un acceptable.
Dont pay a thing end of story. Mainly due to rectification works
costing more than his work.

Photos and restitution work invoices should do it.
He wont do the court thing for $165.
If he does you have a counter claim.

 

[Julia]

I would put in writing to him your concerns with his work when you have calmed down.

e.g. His time spent on the phone for which you were charged, the paint on the furniture and door, the ooze etc.

Your choice of paint was not his doing, so leave that out, even if he offered an opinion on the likely outcome.

Yes. I accept that.

I am no Renoir, but I probably would have used masking tape.

Unless I'm ignorant of one of your many skills, gg, you are not a professional painter. Professional painters do not use masking tape. One I've just had here this afternoon to give me a price for fixing it said the use of the tape actually causes the problem which has occurred at the base.

Springhill, no the furniture maker didn't charge me and, although I appreciate the suggestion, I wouldn't ask him to generate a false invoice. What I think is relevant, however, is the cost (around $300) to fix it.

Dutchie, I will not be paying full price for a job which is just dreadful, especially as above - it will cost double that to make it right. If he agrees to paint skirting boards, I am entitled to expect the job to be completed satisfactorily. Him writing down "I will paint the skirting boards to a satisfactory standard" would not have ameliorated the result.

 

[springhill]

I am afraid to say that you should pay his bill (buyer beware). In hindsight you should have written down a little contract so that you both know what to expect (quality of work, estimate of cost, hourly rate, payment of account etc).

As for the paint shop advise you should ask to speak to the owner and explain that you were disappointed in the advice you got. See what he/she says. Don't go back if he /she is unresponsive.

* My previous post deleted, mouth (or keyboard) engaged before brain as usual *

Any damage done that is external to the work agreed upon should be compensated for.

If the handyperson had've broken a window, driven into an external wall or scratched flooring these would have to be paid for, or fixed properly at no expense to the owner of the property.
There is no such thing as collateral damage.

There is an undertaking that the house should be left in the same condition as it was before, separate from the work done.

Send him a bill for the damages to the furniture and the repair work needed to fix his shoddy job.

 

[Julia]

I would explain in detail as you have here, perhaps in writing, your issues with the job. Suggest that you expect the job to be finished to YOUR expectations BEFORE you will be paying OR you will be looking for another tradesman to do the job correctly if they are not capable and you will not be paying them for the job in that case.

To me, i think one needs to give them a chance to fix their mistakes, a choice.

Good luck!

CanOz

I understand that principle CanOz, but he's clearly not up to putting it right. I do not want to further exacerbate the mess (and my stress level) by having him try.

Have you taken Photos Julia?

Yes. Will attach one.
The bit of blue on the left is irrelevant - from my screen shot software.

The job is sub standard to the point of being totally un acceptable.
Dont pay a thing end of story. Mainly due to rectification works
costing more than his work.

Yes, that is my point. I don't see why I should pay him for making such a mess that I need to pay someone else to put it right.

Photos and restitution work invoices should do it.
He wont do the court thing for $165.
If he does you have a counter claim.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I understand that principle CanOz, but he's clearly not up to putting it right. I do not want to further exacerbate the mess (and my stress level) by having him try.


Yes. Will attach one.View attachment 50415
The bit of blue on the left is irrelevant - from my screen shot software.


Yes, that is my point. I don't see why I should pay him for making such a mess that I need to pay someone else to put it right.

Having seen the photo, Julia, I'd agree with those who would say, pay him nothing.

It might have actually looked better if the bit of blue had been real.

Then I'm no Renoir.

gg

 

[cynic]

An informal chat to consumer affairs regarding the possibility of making a small claim against the painter for the additional costs of repairing his shoddy work might prove worthwhile.

One way or another, your dispute with his "workmanship" needs to be communicated (ideally in written form).
It is advisable to do this in a timely fashion (i.e. before debt recovery proceedings for the unpaid invoice are commenced).

 

[MrBurns]

Tell him the job is unacceptable and you will have to pay to get it fixed and under the circumstances you wil not be paying him.

Keep the photos and get a statement/quote in writing from the new painter that because of x y and z the following needs to be corrected, quote is $ XXX

If the original painter objects tell him if he disagrees you will take the matter to the ACCC or Small Claims Tribunal or VCAT in your state.

You wont hear any more from him I'm sure.

If he becomes nasty thats another story, get back to us then.

 

[Macquack]

I have seen worse jobs than that.

Apart from the critical (eye catching) bleeding in to the grout, it looks reasonable to me.

Do you have any worse pictures than that, colour discrepancy etc?

If you are a very discerning person you should have engaged a professional painter.

 

[MrBurns]

Tell him the job is unacceptable and you will have to pay to get it fixed and under the circumstances you wil not be paying him.

Keep the photos and get a statement/quote in writing from the new painter that because of x y and z the following needs to be corrected, quote is $ XXX

If the original painter objects tell him if he disagrees you will take the matter to the ACCC or Small Claims Tribunal or VCAT in your state.

You wont hear any more from him I'm sure.

If he becomes nasty thats another story, get back to us then.

On the other hand Julia, for $165 you could just pay him and put it down to experience, get the job fixed and forget it. A lot less stress and argument which might be worth avoiding for $165

 

[Tink]

Sorry to hear about your dilemma, Julia.
If you arent happy with his work, then I would tell him as others have said, that you are getting quotes to fix it and you had to call in someone to fix the furniture he destroyed, you wont be paying him.
Take photos and I am sure your friend can verify that he fixed your furniture if anything is said.

In hindsight, you probably should have said what you thought of at the time, and saved yourself a headache now.

 

[Julia]

I have seen worse jobs than that.

So, what's the point of that comment. The job is unacceptable. What might be worse is irrelevant.

Apart from the critical (eye catching) bleeding in to the grout, it looks reasonable to me.

The bleeding is throughout the whole job. That means the job is not reasonable at all.
If you think it's acceptable, macquack, then clearly you and I have somewhat different standards.

 

[herzy]

On the other hand Julia, for $165 you could just pay him and put it down to experience, get the job fixed and forget it. A lot less stress and argument which might be worth avoiding for $165

Not the point Burnsy (I think I've managed to get a bit of a sense of the kind of person Julia is)

My advice would be to explain your issues with the job to this painter - give him an opportunity to rectify the problems you see with the job he did. Although technically you could refuse to pay, and even send him the bill for rectification/damages, you would struggle to enforce this. A much easier avenue would be what I suggested. If he refuses, that's another story.

The other issue is that if you don't contact him, explaining your issues, etc, and refuse to pay, he could (rightly) argue that he wasn't given the opportunity to fix, or at least inspect, the job himself.

Often there is a big practical difference between theoretical legal rights, and getting the desired result.

 

[MrBurns]

Not the point Burnsy (I think I've managed to get a bit of a sense of the kind of person Julia is)
.

The point is the best outcome, this guy cant do the job so no point asking him back, no point stressing over not paying him for a crummy $165 IMHO, just give him 3 $50's and a $10 and a $5 and tell him you're not happy and leave it at that. Some people can get quite nasty over things like this and I would just circumvent that by paying, now if it were $1500 , different story

 

[Tink]

Yes but hang on, its not just the painting, he has wrecked a piece of her furniture, thats not professional. She is lucky she knew the guy otherwise more expense.
He should take it as a learning experience, not Julia.

Now she has to pay someone to sand that all back to repaint - who is going to pay for that?

 

[sails]

I understand that principle CanOz, but he's clearly not up to putting it right. I do not want to further exacerbate the mess (and my stress level) by having him try....

Julia, I agree that if someone doesn't have the skills to get the job right the first time, they really don't have the skills to do the more complex repair work in my experience.

Have you thought about downloading the Office of Fair Trading complaint form as they have due processes to follow? Here's the link: http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/make-a-complaint.htm

If you have followed their process, it makes it easier should you decide to submit a complaint to them. Not sure if that's any help, but trust you can find a satisfactory solution soon as these things can be rather stressful...

 

[Julia]

Not the point Burnsy (I think I've managed to get a bit of a sense of the kind of person Julia is)

Really? What is that?

My advice would be to explain your issues with the job to this painter - give him an opportunity to rectify the problems you see with the job he did. Although technically you could refuse to pay, and even send him the bill for rectification/damages, you would struggle to enforce this. A much easier avenue would be what I suggested. If he refuses, that's another story.

I understand your point here and think Fair Trading probably suggests the tradesperson be given the opportunity to put it right, but I don't think he's up to it and I am not prepared to go through more mess and stress.
Let's say he manages to neatly remove what's on the floor: then he has to sand it all, dust it off, then apply two coats of the correct colour. Why would he then be able to do a neat job when he hasn't in the first place?
I can only see that being the source of considerably more mess and stress. I'd much rather just get someone competent to fix it up.

The point is the best outcome, this guy cant do the job so no point asking him back, no point stressing over not paying him for a crummy $165 IMHO, just give him 3 $50's and a $10 and a $5 and tell him you're not happy and leave it at that. Some people can get quite nasty over things like this and I would just circumvent that by paying, now if it were $1500 , different story

Yes, as above. But I'm damned if in principle I should pay him for three hours for something that should have taken one hour, not been completed to acceptable standard, damaged my furniture, and then pay someone else to fix it all.