What combination of Technical Indicators to use...

nizar said:

Price and volume.

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I second these. It appears, however, that all market neophytes need to make it through the search for the holy grail indicator before they realize this.

Although...one entry indicator which DOES actually make a difference to long term trend trading the ASX is a long term moving average (only enter if the price is above the long term moving average).

Michael & nizar
Isn't "price and volume" is a little cryptic?

Your example of price above the long term moving average is much more descriptive. I can see this and test it. But I can't look at a chart of just price and volume and get a buy or sell signal, although I am sure that some can.

Stevo

From my observations over the last couple of weeks I have to say price and volume are the most definate two 'raw' or 'real' indicators.. it's what the market is actually comprised of.

However, I wonder if momentum (speed of trades?), the number of trades and the average package size or trade size can also give important indications.. such as if more day traders or institutional investors are in the market?

Would day traders be more likely to lead to an inflated price and subsequent drop.. or is there no difference to who trades the markets?

Are there any indicators that measure average package size and the number of trades?

MichaelD said:

I second these. It appears, however, that all market neophytes need to make it through the search for the holy grail indicator before they realize this.

Although...one entry indicator which DOES actually make a difference to long term trend trading the ASX is a long term moving average (only enter if the price is above the long term moving average).

Click to expand...

I think every trader or even invester needs to go through the process of learning loads of indicators to realise their very limited use.

Then you can get on with trying to make a profit by watching price action associated in tandem with volume.

I must confess to using divergence signals in my trading so maybe I am still in the beginners cycle.

Porper said:

I think every trader or even invester needs to go through the process of learning loads of indicators to realise their very limited use.

Then you can get on with trying to make a profit by watching price action associated in tandem with volume.

I must confess to using divergence signals in my trading so maybe I am still in the beginners cycle.

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There are plenty of experienced high falutin traders out there that are indicator based. I reckon the difference is where the ultimate point of reference lies... which of course is price.

Also lots of "price" based traders will still have trendlines drawn in, perhaps an ATR trailing stop. These are still indicators.

Cheers

Price and volume in isolation are pretty useless.

Add generous portions of Momentum,a sound understanding of Bar analysis,Congestion,how it forms and when its Accumulation or Distribution,Sprinkle with some Elliot Wave Analysis and an understanding of Steidlmayer principals.

THEN give it all a complete miss if you have no idea WHAT makes you money in the market!

IT SURE ISNT ANALYSIS.

Cryptic enough?

Bugger!

I just buy them if they're going to go up and sell them if they're going to go down. Never ocurred to me I had to know all this other stuff.
Oh well, you live and learn.


ice

tech/a said:

Price and volume in isolation are pretty useless.

Add generous portions of Momentum,a sound understanding of Bar analysis,Congestion,how it forms and when its Accumulation or Distribution,Sprinkle with some Elliot Wave Analysis and an understanding of Steidlmayer principals.

THEN give it all a complete miss if you have no idea WHAT makes you money in the market!

IT SURE ISNT ANALYSIS.

Cryptic enough?

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Tech, are you having a bad day?

Indicators are severely over rated. naked is the way. keep it simple. lagging oscillators do nothing for me, they will get you 50% of ranges at best. i prefer to anticipate pivots, gets me large chunk of range. trade management keeps risk to a minimum. multi time frames using the "laws" is gold. be a leader not a follower. define trends within trends. trade large in primary trend direction. take partial profits at predetermined levels and allow profits to run using moving stops. be dynamic in thoughts as that what markets are. prophets dont make profits. evolve your trading methods to suit your style. keep it simple as it really is easy once you get the moment of epiphany. charts with mega indicators are really passe. price action says more than any laggard. markets move in repetitive moves even though to naked eye it looks like chaos. think outside the square if you really want to become a success. the majority is normally wrong, become the minority.


.................. bris

Cheers All,

Seems it's finding a combination that I am comfortble with that works for me. Playing around with a combination of SMA's, Bollinger, MFI for one combination, another includes the Volume + MA... The best combination will come through experience, trial and error but I have allot to play with and will try to keep it simple.

I have to learn by looking at them all and then eliminate those that dont do anything for me, part of the path of becoming a trader...

Backtesting is something I know nothing about, dont even know what it means, but will be finding out and will be back with more questions about this later

Thanks all, you've been great!

B.

wayneL said:

There are plenty of experienced high falutin traders out there that are indicator based. I reckon the difference is where the ultimate point of reference lies... which of course is price.

Also lots of "price" based traders will still have trendlines drawn in, perhaps an ATR trailing stop. These are still indicators.

Cheers

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been around a while , best traders ive ever known never use indicators . known a couple . dont need an indicator to tell me trend change , went through all that . one day i realised that simple TL break was way more effective than any ind . ind normally tells you way after naked eye can identify . most oscillators will get you stopping out more often than not . less than 50% success rate weighs on the psychology . these people that talk risk reward and winning with less than 50% trade success rate arent shooting high enough , why be happy with mediocrity . not many of the socalled 5% successful traders will be using oscillators come indicators . no doubt this will open a can of worms but most of you guys out there are doomed to fail going the "traditional" route . thousands of books out there pushing the same barrow yet very few people become successful traders . please ask yourself why . its easy but it aint that easy .


............... bris

Raging Bull said:

Tech, are you having a bad day?

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Actually had a prick of a day!

(1) 7.30 am 18 tonne drill rig craps a main drive 2 hrs before a 50 cubic meter concrete pour.Parts being flown from Brisbane now but that didnt help today.
(2) 8.00am Rock breaker on site -2 -been vandalised Hydraulics need replacing 3 hr holdup.
(3) 2.30pm 4 Tonne excavator throws Rubber track irrepairable,new one being shipped from Huntervally be here Wednesday/down a hole cant get out.
(4) 4.30pm Crew from site -3- report Clutch slipping in one of the 8 tonne tippers,Off road Tuesday for replacement.
(5) 5.00pm Shane one of my newest supervisors,comes into office and reports that his wife has been stationed in Darwin in 2007 so he will be leaving at Xmas.3 yrs training off to Darwin---bugga.

And Ive got the flu.

Thanks for asking.

brisvegas said:

been around a while , best traders ive ever known never use indicators . known a couple . dont need an indicator to tell me trend change , went through all that . one day i realised that simple TL break was way more effective than any ind . ind normally tells you way after naked eye can identify . most oscillators will get you stopping out more often than not . less than 50% success rate weighs on the psychology . these people that talk risk reward and winning with less than 50% trade success rate arent shooting high enough , why be happy with mediocrity . not many of the socalled 5% successful traders will be using oscillators come indicators . no doubt this will open a can of worms but most of you guys out there are doomed to fail going the "traditional" route . thousands of books out there pushing the same barrow yet very few people become successful traders . please ask yourself why . its easy but it aint that easy .


............... bris

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Is a trend line an indicator?

My point was not about oscillators per se'. I agree they pretty much suck for trading decisions. (but can be useful in scanning for candidates)

But nearly all traders use some sort of secondary interpretation of raw price... trendlines, support, resistance etc.

Trend traders will have some derivative of price as a trailing stop. eg moving average, or volatility stop and whatnot... or indeed a trendline.

These are not oscillators, but they are indicators.

Otherwise, totally agree with your comments.

Cheers

brisvegas said:

been around a while , best traders ive ever known never use indicators . known a couple . dont need an indicator to tell me trend change , went through all that . one day i realised that simple TL break was way more effective than any ind . ind normally tells you way after naked eye can identify . most oscillators will get you stopping out more often than not . less than 50% success rate weighs on the psychology . these people that talk risk reward and winning with less than 50% trade success rate arent shooting high enough , why be happy with mediocrity . not many of the socalled 5% successful traders will be using oscillators come indicators . no doubt this will open a can of worms but most of you guys out there are doomed to fail going the "traditional" route . thousands of books out there pushing the same barrow yet very few people become successful traders . please ask yourself why . its easy but it aint that easy .


............... bris

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Cheers Bris, appreciate your feedback and advice and I see that you methods come with allot of experience, something I do not yet have.

Did you start with indicators and discard them once you established your psychology, understanding of the market and confidence?

However, do you feel the use of indicators is a good place to start?

Raging Bull said:

Tech, are you having a bad day?

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Thought you where the old pest , in my last post.
No hard feelings.

Tech can handle most !

tech/a said:

Actually had a prick of a day!

(1) 7.30 am 18 tonne drill rig craps a main drive 2 hrs before a 50 cubic meter concrete pour.Parts being flown from Brisbane now but that didnt help today.
(2) 8.00am Rock breaker on site -2 -been vandalised Hydraulics need replacing 3 hr holdup.
(3) 2.30pm 4 Tonne excavator throws Rubber track irrepairable,new one being shipped from Huntervally be here Wednesday/down a hole cant get out.
(4) 4.30pm Crew from site -3- report Clutch slipping in one of the 8 tonne tippers,Off road Tuesday for replacement.
(5) 5.00pm Shane one of my newest supervisors,comes into office and reports that his wife has been stationed in Darwin in 2007 so he will be leaving at Xmas.3 yrs training off to Darwin---bugga.

And Ive got the flu.

Thanks for asking.

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It never rains, it pours!

I would recommend a cleansing ale or 3, but not a good idea with a flu.

"This too shall pass"

Cheers

borat said:

Cheers Bris, appreciate your feedback and advice and I see that you methods come with allot of experience, something I do not yet have.

Did you start with indicators and discard them once you established your psychology, understanding of the market and confidence?

However, do you feel the use of indicators is a good place to start?

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Yes borat it probably is pertinent to start using indicators as i did, eventually, and hopefully quicker than i did you will realise the naked eye can identify trend, price action quicker than any lagging indicators. I tried to fine tune the laggards to get quicker entry but found i stopped more, then you try to smooth them out to get higher trade success and find you miss a high amount of the trend. Now identifying potential pivot points in market is not easy either and will take a lot of experience to develop. Unfortunately there is no shortcut for this but when and or if you do, it will be like a whole new world has opened up to you. Looking at markets in multi time frames will help and applying laws of multi time frames will enhance. I'll post these laws.... print em out and try and apply them till you get a "feel".

Good luck on your journey. Apply critical thinking to your processes and be honest with yourself. Dont take a whole lot of notice of what you see on these forums unless its logical and factual.

LAWS OF MULTIPLE TIME FRAMES

1. Every time frame has its own structure.

2. The higher time frames overrule the lower time frames.

3. Prices in the lower time frame structure tend to respect the energy points of the higher time frame structure.

4. The energy points of support/resistance created by the higher time frame's vibration (prices) can be validated by the action of lower time periods.

5. The trend created by the next time period enables us to define the tradable trend.

6. What appears to be chaos in one time period can be order in another time period.


Dispositions: Critical thinkers have dispositions that are skeptical and open-minded. They value fair-mindedness, respect evidence and reasoning, respect clarity and precision, look at different points of view, and will change positions when reason leads them to do so.

Criteria: To think critically, you must apply criteria. This means you need to set conditions that must be met for you to judge something as believable.

Argument: Is a statement or proposition with supporting evidence. Critical thinking involves identifying, evaluating, and constructing arguments.

Reasoning: You have the ability to infer a conclusion from one or multiple premises. To do so requires examining logical relationships among statements or data.

Point of View: POV is the way you view the world, which shapes your construction of meaning. In a search for understanding, critical thinkers view phenomena from many different points of view.

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.
Buddha


cheers bris

nizar said:

Price and volume.

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How is this done?

wayneL said:

Is a trend line an indicator?

My point was not about oscillators per se'. I agree they pretty much suck for trading decisions. (but can be useful in scanning for candidates)

Cheers

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Wayne,

How about understanding what the fools are doing? Missing the boat

Porper said:

I think every trader or even invester needs to go through the process of learning loads of indicators to realise their very limited use.

Then you can get on with trying to make a profit by watching price action associated in tandem with volume.

I must confess to using divergence signals in my trading so maybe I am still in the beginners cycle.

Click to expand...

Actually a divergence heare and there can be satisfying.