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Vanilla to blame for global crisis in stock markets?

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http://business.timesonline.co.uk/t...ectors/banking_and_finance/article3248746.ece

From The Times

January 25, 2008

Did rogue trader set off world market panic?

Jérôme Kerviel believed that he was executing a brilliant trading strategy. Instead, the trader’s activities over the past year appeared yesterday to have cost his employer, Société Générale, €4.9 billion (£3.7 billion), and fuelled a global crisis in stock markets.

The 31-year-old’s web of lies and trades began to unravel late on Friday, as his supervisors spotted an anomaly in his handling of futures contracts on European stock market indices. On Saturday Mr Kerviel was hauled into the bank’s Paris offices where he was questioned by Jean-Pierre Mustier, SocGen’s head of investment banking, and confessed to making a series of unauthorised bets on CAC, DAX and the EuroStoxx 50.

Working through Saturday night and Sunday, the disgraced trader helped SocGen staff to uncover his hidden punts. Most positions, mainly predicting that European indices would rise in 2008, were still open. They would have to be closed on Monday, when the markets opened. But the markets were about to deliver a surprise for SocGen’s already reeling bosses.

On Sunday night, while the bankers worked feverishly in Paris, the Australian stock market had already begun a downward spiral, taking it to its biggest one-day fall in 20 years. A few hours later in Japan shares dived almost 6 per cent and eventually closed down without a single share on the Nikkei 225 in positive territory.

The panic spread through an Asia gripped by the fear of a looming US recession and fresh worries over Chinese banks’ exposure to the sub-prime scandal. The British, German and French markets opened at 8am on Monday and, spooked by the carnage in Asia, the FTSE 100 lost 4 per cent in the first few minutes of trading. Meanwhile, SocGen was preparing to unwind the billions of euros’ worth of futures.

Futures traders are unable to see who is buying or selling contracts in their totally automated market. All trades are done through a third party, although it is possible to see the volume of trades and how many bets remain open at the end of the day.

The only tip-off that something unusual might be occurring was that the cost of some contracts was falling. David Jones, chief market strategist at IG Index, the spreadbetter, said: “There were rumours that there seemed to be an unusually big overhang, that there was a lot of selling every time the market rallied.”

While European indices continued to gyrate, the US Federal Reserve was holding an emergency conference. The policy makers were meeting against the backdrop of markets gripped by panic, but had no idea that the anonymous French bank’s actions were fuelling nervous traders’ fears. Howard Wheeldon, a senior strategist at BGC Partners, the spreadbetter, said: “It would have contributed in my view to the negative conditions on Monday. It’s like going into an estate agent, giving them ten houses and saying that you want them sold by the end of the day. It’s going to drive down local house prices.”

A futures trader agreed. “It would have exacerbated what was happening. It’s just an issue of supply and demand,” he said. On Monday traders had no idea who was selling so heavily. On a day of crazy volatility - yesterday, a far calmer day, saw 2.5 million EuroStoxx 50 March 2008 futures traded, with a total underlying value of €95 billion – SocGen’s sales would not have stood out. The only certainty was that markets were behaving oddly and the panic was pervasive.

By the close of trading on Monday, all the major European markets saw billions wiped off the value of their shares. Unknown to the wider world, SocGen was nursing a €4.9 billion loss. All the opening Asian markets saw was the blood on European trading floors and the sell-offs began again.

The next morning, with Asian markets in freefall and a nervous Wall Street about to open for business, the Fed voted for its shock rate cut.

David Wyss, chief economist at Standard & Poor’s, said: “How much did the market decline in Europe have to do with unwinding those positions? It’s hard to know, without knowing the exact positions, but it certainly looks suspicious. Itis probably not the sole cause but I am certainly not ruling it out as a significant factor.”
 

- with the daily mark to markets, initial margin and maintenance margin the French bank would have to have sent over several bln to the futures exchanges. Jerome Kerviel might have hidden the risk position but how could the bean counters miss the several bln needed to keep the massive position open on the exchanges - this sure could have been a way to sweep other losses under the rug. there just may be more here than is first apparent???? I thunk..
Do any of the brilliant money men have any ideas???
Cheeping
...........Kauri
 
From my daily "money Morning" spam:

 
I really didn't understand the Times' article, he half answered his own argument but didn't really.

But yeah, good point with the high volumes which might have been the thing to scare off markets on Monday.
 

But sadly that theory doesn’t stand up to scrutiny either. Even isolated little me had caught a whiff of it on tother side of the world.. on Sat night.. in fact it smelt like a blowie left on the rocks of the Dawseville channell for a couple of days.. Alot of the Asianselling was down to peoples knowing what was coming.. I thunk..

Cheers
..........Kauri
 

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So "they" knew all along.

Bastids!
 
just to flesh out the story... a la blowie... some of "they" seem to think that Soc Gen has only unwound around 60% of its rougies so far...

and completely off that subject but... for the third day now "they" are suggesting that a quant fund has blown... a bit like a blowie...

and that... no..later maybe...
Cheers
...........Kauri
 
Jim Sinclair's take on the SocGen Fiasco

 
Thanks for the posts and articles everyone - been good info, if sometimes conflicting and confusing.

The figure quoted in one of the articles of a face value of shares to be sold of about 37 billion Euros ... that would seem to me to be of sufficient magnitude to have caused the big and rapid push lower on Monday and Tuesday in Europe (given the US didn't open fully until Tuesday afternoon Europe time). I might have just stated the obvious there, but I had to convert that amount into DAX and emini S&P contracts to get a feel for that sort of magnitude.

Converted to DAX futures 37 billion Euro equates to around 210,000 contracts (please correct me if I am wrong). Not that all the selling was necessarily done through that contract, just trying to get an understanding of the magnitude (and all figures are approximations and based around current levels). In emini S&P it equates to about 800,000 contracts. Wow...

Market already in a downswing, US holiday ... not a nice confluence for SocGen.

Going to be interesting getting the full story, might have to wait for a court case (if there is one).
 

Here is another one from John Mauldin.
 
Just read an Interesting article about this incident, its just phenomenal when you think about it!




http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article3257468.ece





LOL!!!!!!!!! That's what FB friends are for! hahahah
 
And, having been rewarded for their past tantrums, the market will now be screaming for another 75 bps next week. As Rick Santelli appropriately observed, the Pavlonian training is now complete."

Got to giggle here with Rick , because the process was called extinction which is treated with a process called systematic desensitization .

It proved that conditioning formed the basis on which nearly all human behaviour can be accounted for , inclusive of which is fact that it showed that behaviour can be manipulated by stimulus .

His statement ( Ricks ) has me believe he has a higher accumen and intellectual wit to match .

Steve Leisman would have had a reply to match Ricks wit .

Did anyone catch it ?
 

Numbercruncher - thanks for the link, but the article shows mainly that the lack of substantive information around this event continues. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed that page, but the best things were the link to Jeremy Clarkson's column on the upper right and the jokes at the bottom.

Just a few points:
"Jérôme Kerviel, a junior suit in the banking world, was on the hook for €50 billion - the equivalent of about half of all the gold and currency reserves held by France." What? That's called leverage guys and gals. Shock, horror, even some aussie mums and dads use it (I have seen them discussing it on a forum on that evil thing called the internet).

"“I did my duty and decided to unwind these positions,” said Daniel Bouton, the chairman." Since when has a no-brainer been confused with duty?

"Soc Gen was a forced seller in plummeting markets – during that day leading shares in London collapsed 5.5% and in Paris 6.8%. This only compounded Soc Gen’s losses." And the award for statement of the bleedin' obvious goes to ...

"Neighbours around his modest apartment in the Parisian suburb of Neuilly-sur-Seine said Kerviel lived quietly and kept to himself." Are we sure he isn't a serial killer?

"He had reportedly not had a holiday for eight months." Sorry, what?

"Kerviel was involved in “Delta One” trading, which involves massive amounts of money but is regarded as relatively low risk." Doesn't this contradict the opening paragraph of the article?

"Yesterday Sarkozy criticised a financial system that was “out of its mind”. “The point of a financial system is to lend money for economic activities which, in turn, generate profits,” he said. “It is not to go and speculate on different activities which create enormous flows and profits in a few hours.”" Such sweet naivety, maybe its what makes him attractive to ex-models.

Entertaining article, and entertainment is what the media is all about.
 
All the pressI have read over the weekend assumes that the problems in SG were kept in-house and that they had to sell into an already falling market.. compounding thier losses. Personally I find that assumption, along with a few others incidentally, rather hard to swallow.. the markets falling, starting in Asian zone and spreading to the Euro zone, was down to the SG problems being in the market already.. unequivecally.. as I have stated earlier even humble I heard on Sat. that there were problems at SG.. and in a PM to another member here was even able to quote a probable loss of 4-5Bln and mention of 45-50Bln involved.. now if I had heard why wouldn't the Fed have heard??? before thier 0.75% panic??
All the talking heads on those venerated cable channells and thier self-agrandiosing statements/rants are either self-serving twaddle... or else they are toeing someone elses line?? Which is probably giving more credence to them than they deserve. The news was filtering into the market over the weekend, enabling those that had heard it to position themselves for some impressive gains by being pro-active rather than reactive... and that obviously was more important to the "media experts come fund managers" than anything else.. as such, anything they spruik should be looked at closely.. very very closely... and no, I don't have or want cable....
I thunk...
Cheers
.........Kauri
 

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and ( at the risk of sounding like a demented conspiract theorist ), I wonder if Soc Gen, reputed to be the largest stock derivatives trading bank globally, didn't take the opportunity to position/unposition itself in other lines to possibly mitigate some of the losses they were getting set to take??? Surely not, that would put them on the same level integrity-wise as poor old Jerome... (not to mention the afore-mentioned "talking heads/media experts)...
I thunk...
Cheers
..........Kauri
 
Causative, catalytic, or symptomatic?

It's rather a big position size to be merely symptomatic. On the the other hand, if the SocGen unwind was causative, that whole down-leg would appear to be totally unwarranted and we inhabit an undervalued market.

Personally, don't buy that; not even for a microsecond. No doubt SogGen precipitated the severity of the sell-off... Buu-uut... there is no way while our @rses point to the ground that the market is undervalued, in fact, it remains substantially and chronically overvalued as we go forward into a recessionary/low growth environment.

So my conclusion is that it was simply the catalyst to bust Goldilocks' grip on the market. Of course the spin will be that Pierre Froglegs caused the crash of 2008, but the reality of course will be somewhat different.
 

The assumption that the market is under-valued was never made, neither was the assumption that the "crash of 08" was/is caused by Pierre... simply the rather ??severe?? 3 day downleg starting Mon last was due to Pierre.. not some sudden fear plucked out of thin air that Mon. morning was the day the worlds punters woke up to the problems facing the worlds economies... but maybe this Mon.


 
I wonder if Soc Gen, reputed to be the largest stock derivatives trading bank globally, didn't take the opportunity to position/unposition itself in other lines to possibly mitigate some of the losses they were getting set to take???

They would be remiss if they had not.
 
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