Trading with full time job - possible?

Nero64 · 3 May 2010

If a person works full-time then the only way to trade properly is to use your bosses computers and time - that's theft in my book.

That's an interesting comment. I never thought of it like that. I suppose taking advantage of employees time, abusing them and making them feel inferior is a reason to say hey I want to trade because I am bored of my job and you're not going to stop me.

However my job is to answer the phone and I have missed out on some good trades and lost money due to performing my daily job tasks. I remember Karoon gas opening up at $4.50 2-3 months ago. Straight away I thought to myself I will place an order above at $4.70 to catch it moving forward. Just then the phone rang and I got distracted. Idiotically I place the a limit at $3.70. That day Karoon passed $6 and it then went past $8.50 in the coming weeks.

I used to trade 3-4 hours during working hours using IG Markets in 2008. I used to use live candlestick charts as well. What is odd is I work in a call centre where people could see my screen. I used to get away with it.

Then in 2009 they began monitoring staff internet connections.

I used commsec for the live data feed, but the yellow and black screen stands out too much (certain managers complained) and with all the watchlists and updating I got busted big time - Officially warned. Continued use will lead to dismissal.

Now I resort to quick checks and 20mins delayed quotes. I still use IB but only briefly to do a quick order. I know they are watching me but I can outsmart them to an extent or get fired and get a better job

weird · 3 May 2010

Pager said:
Yes its very possible, i earn more from trading than i earn at my day job, tried trading full time but for me i found the isolation and boredom too much, so i took a job i had always fancied doing, took a big pay cut but i earn enough to just cover the bills and the trading income is all extra, so my lifestyle hasn't changed at all thanks to the income i gain from it.

Trade off daily bars, some very simple strategy's work, enter everything into an online platform like IB,s TWS and your up and going.

Check out the Chartist, Nick runs several strategy's that you can enter all your orders in a trading platform the night before if you wish, his stuff works but like everything in trading you need to give it time and be disciplined to build your equity.

Agree

nunthewiser · 4 May 2010

Nero64 said:
Then in 2009 they began monitoring staff internet connections.

- Officially warned. Continued use will lead to dismissal.

Now I resort to quick checks and 20mins delayed quotes. I still use IB but only briefly to do a quick order. I know they are watching me but I can outsmart them to an extent or get fired and get a better job

Dear nero.

Please empty your desk and leave the building immediately.

we have been watching you.

tech/a · 4 May 2010

Nero64 said:
That's an interesting comment. I never thought of it like that. I suppose taking advantage of employees time, abusing them and making them feel inferior is a reason to say hey I want to trade because I am bored of my job and you're not going to stop me.

However my job is to answer the phone and I have missed out on some good trades and lost money due to performing my daily job tasks. I remember Karoon gas opening up at $4.50 2-3 months ago. Straight away I thought to myself I will place an order above at $4.70 to catch it moving forward. Just then the phone rang and I got distracted. Idiotically I place the a limit at $3.70. That day Karoon passed $6 and it then went past $8.50 in the coming weeks.

I used to trade 3-4 hours during working hours using IG Markets in 2008. I used to use live candlestick charts as well. What is odd is I work in a call centre where people could see my screen. I used to get away with it.

Then in 2009 they began monitoring staff internet connections.

I used commsec for the live data feed, but the yellow and black screen stands out too much (certain managers complained) and with all the watchlists and updating I got busted big time - Officially warned. Continued use will lead to dismissal.

Now I resort to quick checks and 20mins delayed quotes. I still use IB but only briefly to do a quick order. I know they are watching me but I can outsmart them to an extent or get fired and get a better job

Whats making you more?
Trading or your job?
If you dont like your job or management change it.

As much as management controls your wage so to do you control the profit of a company.Great staff even in menial tasks bring tremendous improvement to bottomline profitability.
I wont have anyone work in my company who isnt thoroughly enjoying what they do and have pride in their performance.

You can trade in longer timeframes without interfering with your day job.
Just as you dont wish your employer to take advantage of you dont take advantage of your employer---references are worth a lot when climbing the ladder.
There will be plenty of time to trade.

weird · 4 May 2010

Twiddle said:
So it is a viable strategy to spend hours at night trading these things?

I am thinking about it from the perspective of;

-Is 2 - 3 hours every night enough time to trade effectively
-Do many people do this?

What I am getting at is, given proper hard work and dedication can it be worthwhile being a trader and having a full time job, or does it really need to be one or the other?

I am deciding whether to embark on some serious learning and hard work to try and make money from trading, but I need to know if it is even feasible before I do.

I trade index futures, US market, and ASX ... only dedicating 1 1/2 hours a day, most of time downloading End of Day data takes up the majority of my time, as compared to each system.

Different markets, different systems , different time frames ... so many different ways to make a buck (not an income with this style of trading) in the markets trading only part-time.

3 educators in the market which I think are worth further investigating are Nick Radge, Gary Stone and Brent Penfold. All offering end of day systems.

CanOz · 4 May 2010

Great points made by T/A and Weird.

First of all, personal integrity. Are you willing to lose your personal integrity over day trading? There are lots of other ways to trade. Sure, i did this too once, when my job wasn't busy and i had absolutely nothing better to do. I soon realized though that my strategy was flawed, and i was riding on the tails of a bull market. In hindsight i could have made more money safely by swing trading, and leaving day trading to the scalpers.

Weird's point is valid too, you don't need much time to trade. I think the key is that once you realize you 'don't need to be right' you can trade systems you buy, services you subscribe to, or you can develop and trade systems on your own.

EOD is the most lifestyle accommodating time frame for me. Perhaps when i retire i can watch the market closer and then, maybe I'll feel like taking a more active role in my trading. For now, 1-2 hrs per day is ample.

Good Luck!

CanOz

Twiddle · 5 May 2010

Thanks for replies all.

When you say "End of day trading", what kind of hours are you talking?

6pm to 9pm for example?

Or are you talking about trading the ASX before the close, like 3:30pm, or something along those lines?

baby_swallow · 5 May 2010

Twiddle said:
Thanks for replies all.

When you say "End of day trading", what kind of hours are you talking?

6pm to 9pm for example?

Or are you talking about trading the ASX before the close, like 3:30pm, or something along those lines?

My understanding of EOD trading is you base your trading decisions - entry/exit on the daily closing price. You usually hold positions overnight and sometimes for several days, (as opposed to daytrading where you make several buy&sell throughout the trading hours).

EOD trading or sometimes called 'position trading' has some advantage over daytrading. It is less stressful when you only do your entry/exit at Open or near Close of the trading day.

Although most of my trades are daytrades, I also look to ride the long term trend in other markets.

nulla nulla · 6 May 2010

Nero64 said:
That's an interesting comment. I never thought of it like that. I suppose taking advantage of employees time, abusing them and making them feel inferior is a reason to say hey I want to trade because I am bored of my job and you're not going to stop me.

However my job is to answer the phone and I have missed out on some good trades and lost money due to performing my daily job tasks. I remember Karoon gas opening up at $4.50 2-3 months ago. Straight away I thought to myself I will place an order above at $4.70 to catch it moving forward. Just then the phone rang and I got distracted. Idiotically I place the a limit at $3.70. That day Karoon passed $6 and it then went past $8.50 in the coming weeks.

I used to trade 3-4 hours during working hours using IG Markets in 2008. I used to use live candlestick charts as well. What is odd is I work in a call centre where people could see my screen. I used to get away with it.

Then in 2009 they began monitoring staff internet connections.

I used commsec for the live data feed, but the yellow and black screen stands out too much (certain managers complained) and with all the watchlists and updating I got busted big time - Officially warned. Continued use will lead to dismissal.

Now I resort to quick checks and 20mins delayed quotes. I still use IB but only briefly to do a quick order. I know they are watching me but I can outsmart them to an extent or get fired and get a better job

I am amazed at the audacity you display. You are an employee receiving a weekly wage to commit 38 hours a week in fullfilment of performance of duties on behalf of your employer. Yet you consider it your right to spend your working hours in pursuit of your own interests and show no guilt or remorse even after being warned to discontinue this practise "....but I can outsmart them..." .

Twiddle · 6 May 2010

baby_swallow said:
My understanding of EOD trading is you base your trading decisions - entry/exit on the daily closing price. You usually hold positions overnight and sometimes for several days, (as opposed to daytrading where you make several buy&sell throughout the trading hours).

EOD trading or sometimes called 'position trading' has some advantage over daytrading. It is less stressful when you only do your entry/exit at Open or near Close of the trading day.

Although most of my trades are daytrades, I also look to ride the long term trend in other markets.

Ok, cheers for that. I suppose there would be room for both EOD type style, and a more active involvement. Currently I am quite attracted to a more active approach and catching short term trends as they happen. I am still trying to figure out whether this a viable strategy or not however.

baby_swallow · 6 May 2010

Twiddle said:
Ok, cheers for that. I suppose there would be room for both EOD type style, and a more active involvement. Currently I am quite attracted to a more active approach and catching short term trends as they happen. I am still trying to figure out whether this a viable strategy or not however.

Yes, you can trade several timeframes concurrently, don't just limit yourself in just one. You are only limited to the size of your account.
Eg. I'm, short FESX (DJStoxx50) on hourly, counter trading ES at 5mins and I also have overnight short positions with CL (Oil).

justwondering · 25 May 2010

get a laptop and mobile internet , take it to work and trade?
depending on job obviously.

Trading with full time job - possible?

Nero64

weird

nunthewiser

tech/a

No Ordinary Duck

weird

CanOz

Home runs feel good, but base hits pay bills!

Twiddle

baby_swallow

nulla nulla

Positive Expectancy

Twiddle

baby_swallow

justwondering

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