Traders Circle - Options Trading Course

TomBlazTrader · 23 May 2016

Re: Traders Circle Scam?

cynic said:
You seem to be oblivious to the fact that >90% strike rates are easily achievable, with or without the assistance of educators.

With the exception of the two extremes, 0% and 100%, strike rate, when viewed in isolation to the more pertinent factors, says precious little about a trader's profit generation capability.

Are you looking to become financially profitable from your trading?

If so, then I fear that either the trading education, undertaken by yourself, has failed you, or you have failed the education.

I have been live trading since August 2015 and am in an profitable position with the help of Traders Circle but do you seriously expect a new trader to achieve 90% plus success rate??

Like I said in my original post, I can see how with experience 70% success is achievable. 90% would be awesome... maybe one day. In saying that I take your point that a successful trade rate is not what makes you a profitable trader, in my experience it is what returns are achieved in the successful trades compared to the losing ones and how a losing trade is managed and that does not mean an expensive repair strategy but starts with tight stops where possible.

Also as I stated, I wanted to be educated by a course based platform and from me it was a positive experience with Traders Circle.

(Just to clarify, I am talking about the Melbourne based Traders Circle a part of OzFinancial.)

TomBlazTrader · 23 May 2016

hamli said:
I can see how this goes...

They will spend the first couple of hours telling you how special you are, stroke your ego and tell you to ignore all the skeptics out there.

Following this, they will explain to you what support and resistance is. Then they will provide you with some dictionary meaning of a covered call and naked put.

They will stroke your ego a bit more, try upsell some more products such as managed funds, real estate etc eating up the hours you've paid to learn.

By the time you have finished the course, you will eagerly await the trades they put on, and not be able to trade on your own.

You would not have learnt how to manage volatility risk, delta risk and gamma risk. You would not have learnt how to optimise your trades ....

And guess what? You are now down a few hundred- few thousand dollars. Motto: There is no miracle classes that will get you to where you think you want to go. Free resources online, and if you can't figure it out, I can guarantee you that a class wont change that.

I'm sick of these gammon financial education classes. In fact I came across the thread "The Covered Call Panacea Redux" and tried to add to it, but my post was taken to be a real add and taken down.

Rage rage rage... that's what spam mail does to me.

Hi Hamli,

Sorry to disappoint you but my experience with Traders Circle is nothing like you described here.

For me Traders Circle really do want to help those who choose to give trading a go to be successful. They focus a lot on education and also continuing that educational support. It is not just recommendations but about finding and managing the trades yourself with the assistance of an experienced adviser. I would say the recommendations make up maybe 10% of the core product they offer. Also, no one forces you to do the recommendations, personally I have not done any but focus on finding my own trades. When needed the advisers are there to help and in my opinion are great at doing so.

cynic · 23 May 2016

Re: Traders Circle Scam?

TomBlazTrader said:
I have been live trading since August 2015 and am in an profitable position with the help of Traders Circle but do you seriously expect a new trader to achieve 90% plus success rate??

Like I said in my original post, I can see how with experience 70% success is achievable. 90% would be awesome... maybe one day. In saying that I take your point that a successful trade rate is not what makes you a profitable trader, in my experience it is what returns are achieved in the successful trades compared to the losing ones and how a losing trade is managed and that does not mean an expensive repair strategy but starts with tight stops where possible.

Also as I stated, I wanted to be educated by a course based platform and from me it was a positive experience with Traders Circle.

(Just to clarify, I am talking about the Melbourne based Traders Circle a part of OzFinancial.)

Live trading since Aug 2015! Wow! That's approximately 9 or 10 months ! Not even an entire year!

And yet somehow you manage to perpetuate the, all too common, newbie mistake, of confusing increased success rate with increased profitability!

TomBlazTrader · 23 May 2016

Re: Traders Circle Scam?

minwa said:
I am very worried that they are hitting 50%-60%, 70% on rare occasions success rate. I know for a fact most of their trades are 1:5 trades. 20c credit/debit on 1 dollar wide strike spreads. Let's use "middle ground" 60%

View attachment 66794

This can be achieved with their method..trendline + stochastic + RSI ! And yes 20% position size is what they teach lol..after all the trade can be "repaired" (extra brokerage for them of course..oh wait did you know if you do their course they pressure you to use their overpriced full service brokerage because they trick newbies into thinking their strategies can only be executed by their own broker? , and of course pay 300+ per month for their recommandation to you to rack up brokerage for them) My god I drank from this tainted well thinking it was holy grail in the past.

Again, this does not resemble my experience with Traders Circle / Oz Financial. Maybe there are better trading methods and platforms out there that you are fortunate enough to know but for me Traders Circle has been very beneficial and I appreciate the continued support and effort they put into educating us 'newbies'.

I have never experienced the pressure you described and like I mentioned before the recommendations are not mandatory. I for example have never traded one of the recommendations.

TomBlazTrader · 23 May 2016

Re: Traders Circle Scam?

cynic said:
Live trading since Aug 2015! Wow! That's approximately 9 or 10 months ! Not even an entire year!

And yet somehow you manage to perpetuate the, all too common, newbie mistake, of confusing increased success rate with increased profitability!

Well maybe one i'll find out.

cynic · 23 May 2016

Re: Traders Circle Scam?

TomBlazTrader said:
Again, this does not resemble my experience with Traders Circle / Oz Financial.
....
I have never experienced the pressure you described and like I mentioned before the recommendations are not mandatory. I for example have never traded one of the recommendations.

Would that be because your business relationship with them is somewhat different to that of their typical clients?

Porper · 24 May 2016

Re: Traders Circle Scam?

cynic said:
Would that be because your business relationship with them is somewhat different to that of their typical clients?

Nail and head come to mind. Loads of negatives and only 1 new member that constantly tries to convince people they are great...odd that.

cynic · 24 May 2016

Re: Traders Circle Scam?

Porper said:
Nail and head come to mind. Loads of negatives and only 1 new member that constantly tries to convince people they are great...odd that.

Ofttimes that does indeed turn out to be the case, and scepticism is certainly well advised in such cases.

Having said that, another possibility does spring to mind.

People do at times become enamoured with their dreams, making them more susceptible to the marketing of dreams by those unscrupulously merchandising such products.

As the dream is usually more attractive than the reality, some will, in a vain effort to hold the dream in place, continue, for a time, to defend the virtues of the "merchandise" and the "merchants" rather than confront the less palatable reality.

minwa · 24 May 2016

Re: Traders Circle Scam?

TomBlazTrader said:
I have been live trading since August 2015 and am in an profitable position with the help of Traders Circle but do you seriously expect a new trader to achieve 90% plus success rate??

Like I said in my original post, I can see how with experience 70% success is achievable. 90% would be awesome... maybe one day. In saying that I take your point that a successful trade rate is not what makes you a profitable trader, in my experience it is what returns are achieved in the successful trades compared to the losing ones and how a losing trade is managed and that does not mean an expensive repair strategy but starts with tight stops where possible.

So you paid 5k+ and you came out measuring trades by success rate until you told in a free forum that return, and not success rate, is important ?

You also do not need any experience to construct a 90% plus success rate strategy. Simply sell a far out of the money call/put or spread. Your options knowledge is even worse than TastyTraders, and that's saying a lot, considering you paid $5k+ for it and those are free.

Also are you still using stochastic and RSI ? Did you need to pay $5k for them to teach you that touching lower boundary is oversold ?

TomBlazTrader · 24 May 2016

Re: Traders Circle Scam?

cynic said:
Would that be because your business relationship with them is somewhat different to that of their typical clients?

No it is not, I am just a happy Traders Circle client / customer.

Now I take the point that there is plenty of info available online and in books but I wanted a classroom based environment where I was taught by experienced traders. Maybe you don't agree with the methods they teach or you believe there are more successful ways to trade but for what they have taught me and the continued effort and support they offer has been great in my opinion and as a result I have been trading with continued success so I don't agree with what some have written here that they are a scam. For me this is just not a fair description of the company is and the service they offer.

I am sorry if this is hard for some of you to read and I am delighted the some of you have taken so much interest in how I spend my cash but really some of you have to get off your high horses and realise there are people like me who have had little experience in using technical analyse and appreciate a course with continued coaching support while learning which is what Traders Circle do and they do it well.

hamli · 24 May 2016

I wish all those people that went broke off these courses would post too lol.

TomBlazTrader · 24 May 2016

hamli said:
I wish all those people that went broke off these courses would post too lol.

I am not saying that there are not questionable courses out there, I am just saying that from my experience Traders Circle is not one of them.

Also, I am not trying to sell what Traders Circle have to offer and I would be the first to say that doing the course does not mean you would automatically be successful or ever successful at trading but they definitely do a good job educating and supporting new traders and have a good team in place so I am happy to recommend them to whoever is looking at doing an options trading based course. Are there better options out there....? I don't know, there could be. I personally am happy for what I have learnt and continue to learn and so for me it has been good value.

cynic · 24 May 2016

TomBlazTrader said:
I am not saying that there are not questionable courses out there, I am just saying that from my experience Traders Circle is not one of them.

Also, I am not trying to sell what Traders Circle have to offer and I would be the first to say that doing the course does not mean you would automatically be successful or ever successful at trading but they definitely do a good job educating and supporting new traders and have a good team in place so I am happy to recommend them to whoever is looking at doing an options trading based course. Are there better options out there....? I don't know, there could be. I personally am happy for what I have learnt and continue to learn and so for me it has been good value.

When I saw a first time post praising this course, my first thought was "here we go again!". Certain comments, subsequent to your first post, have alerted me to the possibility that you are indeed a real customer, and not a shameless promoter as I initially suspected.

In relation to your confidence in the integrity of the course and its offerings, does the name Carlo Castellano ring any bells?

http://asic.gov.au/about-asic/media-centre/find-a-media-release/2004-releases/04-176-asic-acts-against-option-trading-seminars/

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/carlo-castellano-melbourne-victoria-c422855.html

Porper · 24 May 2016

cynic said:
When I saw a first time post praising this course, my first thought was "here we go again!". Certain comments, subsequent to your first post, have alerted me to the possibility that you are indeed a real customer, and not a shameless promoter as I initially suspected.

In relation to your confidence in the integrity of the course and its offerings, does the name Carlo Castellano ring any bells?

http://asic.gov.au/about-asic/media-centre/find-a-media-release/2004-releases/04-176-asic-acts-against-option-trading-seminars/

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/carlo-castellano-melbourne-victoria-c422855.html

You are much more trusting than me Cynic.

Look how many times he uses "Traders Circle" in his answers. I.M.O he is just trawling. It's ok though as he is highlighting all the negativity surrounding this company which is great for potential clients. Hopefully they will look at the many negative posts, 1 positive and draw their own conclusions.

TomBlazTrader · 24 May 2016

Porper said:
You are much more trusting than me Cynic.

Look how many times he uses "Traders Circle" in his answers. I.M.O he is just trawling. It's ok though as he is highlighting all the negativity surrounding this company which is great for potential clients. Hopefully they will look at the many negative posts, 1 positive and draw their own conclusions.

The original post was about Traders Circle. I responded to a recent question where someone who seemed to be in a similar position to me asked if it was worth considering doing the course. The responses they received seemed general to me in nature and did not reflect my experiences with the course so I just gave my opinion which was true and balanced based again on my experiences with them.

TomBlazTrader · 24 May 2016

cynic said:
When I saw a first time post praising this course, my first thought was "here we go again!". Certain comments, subsequent to your first post, have alerted me to the possibility that you are indeed a real customer, and not a shameless promoter as I initially suspected.

In relation to your confidence in the integrity of the course and its offerings, does the name Carlo Castellano ring any bells?

http://asic.gov.au/about-asic/media-centre/find-a-media-release/2004-releases/04-176-asic-acts-against-option-trading-seminars/

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/carlo-castellano-melbourne-victoria-c422855.html

Thank you for the links and all I can say is that I never heard the get rich quick line from Carlo or Traders Circle. I don't want to say too much here because again I don't want to sound like I am making excuses and like I am trying to sell their product but I would say that they teach a very Conservative approach to trading and the recommendations they put out reflects this. The reason why I don't do the recommendations is because I like to be less conservative with my trades and Trades Circle are fine with this and the adviser's help and give guidance and advice when needed.

I would just like to also add that for me they are not known for the recommendations. It is not like they are putting out recommendations everyday, sometimes it could be once a week or every second week. Really depends on what they find in the market and if they decide its worth trading.

I am just of the opinion that if you are looking for an options based trading course than they are worth considering as for me they where really and still are really helpful.

cynic · 25 May 2016

TomBlazTrader said:
Thank you for the links and all I can say is that I never heard the get rich quick line from Carlo or Traders Circle.

Perhaps not those exact words, but do you really believe ASIC's concerns regarding Carlo's conduct were entirely baseless and without foundation?

I don't want to say too much here because again I don't want to sound like I am making excuses and like I am trying to sell their product but ....

Really?!!

The last time I checked, all of your posts within this forum were made to a solitary thread, namely this one!

To me that says one heck of a lot!

minwa · 25 May 2016

TomBlazTrader said:
they teach a very Conservative approach to trading and the recommendations they put out reflects this.

What a load of crap. Very conservative but risk up to 20% of your account in a single trade ? 5 bad trades and your out of the game.

"Take profits regularly", of course, them being the broker the more you trade the more they make since they do not charge by per contract, but per order. Taking partial profits for the low reward to risk spreads they mostly do is absolutely stupid.

Rule no. 2 says you need bank to buy back positions. You do not need margin to close out positions. What they are saying is have powder for "repairing" trades, ie taking the loss and opening a new one. More brokerage for them of course, again you are charged per order not per contract.

So Blaz how are you doing with stochastic & RSI ?

hamli · 25 May 2016

Rule 1:
Disaster. Way too high.

Rule 2:
Disaster. 4 trades is way too less. Should be aiming for way more if account permits and across different asset classes. You are playing for theta decay, so you want to reduce directional risk.

Rule 4:
How is this actionable? And the reasoning sucks. But I don't disagree with closing out contracts before expiry, but with reference to risk taken, days to expiration and premium collected. But as I said the reasoning provided sucks, and they should at least provide guidelines and provide thorough backtests to support their answer.

But based on their suggestion, a lot of their members would have been wiped out or suffered severely last August and January.

Run away from this course and don't look back.

Traders Circle - Options Trading Course

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